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Davesnothere
Change is NOT Necessarily Progress
Premium Member
join:2009-06-15
Canada

1 recommendation

Davesnothere to dib22

Premium Member

to dib22

Re: Strategies for Keeping XP - When You HAVE To Keep XP

 
If there really WAS a direct path to upgrade from XP to Win 7, many more of us would have tried it.

PX said this earlier and I agree.

This $99 item is not such a beast.

MS did this to themselves by not producing one, and they have done many other inept things over the years.

dib22
join:2002-01-27
Kansas City, MO

1 edit

dib22

Member

said by Davesnothere:

This $99 item is not such a beast.

»www.newegg.com/Product/P ··· 32416805

»www.newegg.com/Product/P ··· 32116986

»www.amazon.com/Windows-P ··· 0H09BB16

»www.amazon.com/Windows-P ··· 0GOUBT6E

It is true that you can't go from xp directly to 7, but on the plus side, in my opinion, you really wouldn't want to anyway... I am one of the ones who backs up data and does clean installs on any windows install.

XP has been an security issue for some time now, even with current patches.
said by Davesnothere:

... and they have done many other inept things over the years.

Yes... killing the start button and turning Windows 8 info Fullscreen 8 will be pretty hard to out bone-head

mackey
Premium Member
join:2007-08-20

1 recommendation

mackey

Premium Member

said by dib22:

It is true that you can't go from xp directly to 7, but on the plus side, in my opinion, you really wouldn't want to anyway...

It's not that you can't install directly, it's that you can't get the upgrade discount when purchasing it. It wasn't no $99 back when it came out.

/M

Mashiki
Balking The Enemy's Plans
join:2002-02-04
Woodstock, ON

1 recommendation

Mashiki to Davesnothere

Member

to Davesnothere
said by Davesnothere:

If there really WAS a direct path to upgrade from XP to Win 7, many more of us would have tried it.

There was an upgrade path from XP to 8 two years ago, it was $14(if you were smart). It was more so of a case of people being lazy and deciding that they couldn't be bothered to install another UI shell over metro, or couldn't figure out how to use a search and be crafty.

Be realistic, this is the same type of BS that's going on with people who complained about the end of 16-bit. That we're now also seeing with the end of support for 32-bit as well. Give it another 3 years tops and you'll start seeing mass whining and crying about "Y U NO SUPPORT WINx32" and it's not like people haven't had 4 years to start moving away from XP either. The length of support for XP has been exceptionally long, far longer than most OS's on the market. Apple usually kills support after 2 years, most 'nix OS's get support killed after 5 years.

There's only two reasons you have XP at this point: Legacy software that can't be run on anything else, and legacy hardware that won't work on anything else. If you can't afford $250 to build a new computer over 4 years, you've got a more serious issue with your finances.

dib22
join:2002-01-27
Kansas City, MO

dib22 to mackey

Member

to mackey
said by mackey:

It wasn't no $99 back when it came out.

When 7 came out... I purchased multiple windows 7 pro upgrades for $99 each. I also purchased the windows 7 home edition upgrade family pack for $149 that was for 3 machines... so $49.67 each. They came with both 32bit and 64bit dvds.

I do agree that microsoft should have perhaps had a better plan than expecting everyone to buy windows 8 upgrade at $119 or buy a new machine... perhaps they should have dusted off windows 7 and sold some new licence for it at $50... but the more users they move to newer products (win8.x), the easier (and cheaper) it becomes to maintain the product.
BlitzenZeus
Burnt Out Cynic
Premium Member
join:2000-01-13

BlitzenZeus to Mashiki

Premium Member

to Mashiki
Yep, Microsoft gave them three more years in the hopes they would take that time to move on from xp to at least Win 7 if they didn't like Vista for some reason, yet Win 7 was mostly just Vista SP2 with a different name. Even discounts for xp users to get Win 8.

Now people are bitching again three years later, in that time people could have even saved their money to get off that possibly decade old machine, or get Win 7 if it was a machine bought closer to the release of Vista.

I think a point they were making was that there was no direct upgrade path from xp other than Vista, and the rest were clean installs, however expecting Win 7 to upgrade from xp was a pipe dream, they were two releases apart.

seankelly
join:2005-09-05
united kingd

1 edit

seankelly to John Galt6

Member

to John Galt6
Thank you. I'm adopting mixed strategies, as I can't afford that many upgrades - I have six XP Pro machines to maintain.

1. My parents', a long way away, they only use it for MS Office, email on Thunderbird and Firefox for browsing. It's behind a hardware firewall, it's equipped with ZoneAlarm and Avast. I think they're pretty safe.

2. Two family PCs not used for much more than the above. One has Avast and the other MSE. I'm happy these are not in much danger, but clearly I need to replace MSE (see below).

3. Two teenagers' PCs. These are most at risk, in spite of all the security I've set up I get an issue with one or the other most years. They will need upgrading.

4. My dual-core 3GB laptop. This is a nightmare, I just replaced MSE with Comodo and it went very, very slow. I then uninstalled Comodo, which smashed Windows to bits: it hung for hours after reporting that it couldn't complete the uninstall, and on restart it gets a little bit through the Windows splash screen then BSOD (STOP: 0x0000007B (0xB9CCF524,0xC0000034). Both partitions on the HD had errors, fixed with CHKDSK (and checked on another machine), Setup-Repair replaces a lot of files but fails to fix it. Thanks Microsoft, you now want more money off me? Linux here I come - any suggestions welcomed, I've played with Linux a couple of times but tbh none wowed me as relatively straightforward to maintain. And I need Office - how well does it run on WINE?

Sean.
Velnias
join:2004-07-06
233322

Velnias

Member

Wine may be good, but better way is to install, for example, Ubuntu 12.04 LTS, then VirtualBox on it and your Windows XP with MS Office in it.

Its easy to disable visualized Windows from accessing internet and do regular snapshots ( files can be stored on shared folders ).

That way you can run all the software, that works on Windows XP, without hassle ( maybe except heavy 3D applications, like games ).

BTW your hardware meets all the requirements with easy.

seankelly
join:2005-09-05
united kingd

seankelly

Member

Many thanks, I didn't think about Virtual Box (which I have used from XP to play with Linux).
BlitzenZeus
Burnt Out Cynic
Premium Member
join:2000-01-13

1 recommendation

BlitzenZeus to seankelly

Premium Member

to seankelly
You're blaming windows for hdd errors after you installed comodo? You have to be joking on this one. If you actually want help with that make another thread in the proper forum, but I wouldn't trust that hdd to linux either just yet. The best you can hope for is it was writing to the file allocation table when comodo caused a fault with the nt kernel, but when things like that happen it can leave behind corrupted files, if those files cannot be replaced by a repair install then a clean install is your only option. Use some common sense please. I'd suggest you run memtest off a bootable disk first, and then run some other disk utilities, you can get some from the hdd manufacturer. It doesn't matter if it's linux, or windows when a hdd goes bad.

I suggest you try Mint 16 for now, Mint 17 will be out later, and Ubuntu will have a 14 coming out later, both are supposed to be LTS. Many people prefer the desktop environment in Mint, and you're given many options unlike Ubuntu's unity which actually drove people away from Ubuntu. You might prefer mate, or cinnamon as your desktop environment in Mint. You will have open office, and you can make sure it works for your needs.

seankelly
join:2005-09-05
united kingd

seankelly to Velnias

Member

to Velnias
Many thanks, I didn't think about Virtual Box (which I have used from XP to play with Linux).
seankelly

seankelly to BlitzenZeus

Member

to BlitzenZeus
said by BlitzenZeus:

You're blaming windows for hdd errors after you installed comodo? You have to be joking on this one. If you actually want help with that make another thread in the proper forum, but I wouldn't trust that hdd to linux either just yet. The best you can hope for is it was writing to the file allocation table when comodo caused a fault with the nt kernel, but when things like that happen it can leave behind corrupted files, if those files cannot be replaced by a repair install then a clean install is your only option. Use some common sense please.

1. Uninstalling not installing. The install was fine, albeit Comodo didn't work nicely with the system. CHKDSK was fine before the uninstall, so yes I am blaming Comodo.
2. Maybe I'm a little delicate, but I find your common sense comment unnecessary and rather presumptive. You don't know me and I didn't describe the full sequence of events in the uninstall, or what I've tried since, because...
3. I'm not asking for help on that; I can work my round the forums should I feel the need.

I suggest you try Mint 16 for now, Mint 17 will be out later, and Ubuntu will have a 14 coming out later, both are supposed to be LTS. Many people prefer the desktop environment in Mint, and you're given many options unlike Ubuntu's unity which actually drove people away from Ubuntu. You might prefer mate, or cinnamon as your desktop environment in Mint. You will have open office, and you can make sure it works for your needs.

Thank you for the suggestions. I need Office because some of the Spreadsheets I receive have features unsupported by Libre Office or Open Office.
BlitzenZeus
Burnt Out Cynic
Premium Member
join:2000-01-13

BlitzenZeus

Premium Member

I'd start with searches for things like "installing office 2013 in wine", and if that doesn't answer your question we have a unix forum here that may be able to help. Wine can be very temperamental, it can be a royal pita to even get silverlight working in wine to do things like watch netflix. Personally I just have a windows virtual machine.

seankelly
join:2005-09-05
united kingd

seankelly

Member

Thanks again.

As well as Office, I also have a number of programs for controlling proprietary hardware (I work in TV) which only work in XP and which - insofar as a lot of the kit is legacy - are unlikely to be updated.

I think I'll build a dual boot XP/Linux machine, and put a Virtual Box Windows inside Linux as well, see which I get along with best - and then zap the other.

Should be fun.
praetoralpha
join:2005-08-06
Pittsburgh, PA

praetoralpha to Blackbird

Member

to Blackbird
said by Blackbird:

Backup, backup, backup! If you keep it backed up, no matter what happens short of catastrophic failure (like when the magic smoke leaks out), you can always get back to where you were.

The point of a backup is to cover yourself when anything happens, INCLUDING catastrophic failure. It's pretty easy to cover failures like the house burning down.

Blackbird
Built for Speed
Premium Member
join:2005-01-14
Fort Wayne, IN

Blackbird

Premium Member

said by praetoralpha:

said by Blackbird:

Backup, backup, backup! If you keep it backed up, no matter what happens short of catastrophic failure (like when the magic smoke leaks out), you can always get back to where you were.

The point of a backup is to cover yourself when anything happens, INCLUDING catastrophic failure. It's pretty easy to cover failures like the house burning down.

Magic smoke: »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma ··· ic_smoke

If one experiences catastrophic failure of the computer, it seems highly unlikely that replacing the destroyed computer with a new one will involve re-installation of XP on it, from backups or otherwise - the user will simply move on to a newer OS at that point, commensurate with the newer computer. That's what most individual users currently remaining with XP would do. Unless, of course, they have other XP-era computers sitting out in the lawn shed... (and where his backup CDs had also better be, if he has any plans on using them in the case of a house fire).

coldmoon
Premium Member
join:2002-02-04
Fulton, NY

coldmoon to John Galt6

Premium Member

to John Galt6
You should think about using boot-to-restore that will continue to support Windows XP. If you are using at least XP SP2, RVS (v3x and x2x) and our new Quietzone (v4x) will still be an available option to help harden your security on these systems.

Mike
Mod
join:2000-09-17
Pittsburgh, PA

1 recommendation

Mike to John Galt6

Mod

to John Galt6
Give grandma Chrome with adblock (block everything... malware sites, social media buttons all that crap), msmvp host file, and make sure she has a useful AV.

call it a day.

workablob
join:2004-06-09
Houston, TX

workablob to John Galt6

Member

to John Galt6
Install WOT and it will notify the user of a bad site.

Use OpenDNS for DNS and it will prevent access to known BAD sites.

Blob

linicx
Caveat Emptor
Premium Member
join:2002-12-03
United State

linicx to John Galt6

Premium Member

to John Galt6
If you keep XP check the Blekko search engine.
Fickey
Terrorists target your backbone
join:2004-05-31

Fickey to Velnias

Member

to Velnias
said by Velnias:

Wine may be good, but better way is to install, for example, Ubuntu 12.04 LTS, then VirtualBox on it and your Windows XP with MS Office in it...

said by 85160670:

Here some reading .... [ »www.zdnet.com/hell-no-we ··· 0026539/ ]

said by zdnet :

"I hired an IT Consultant who recommended a very polished Linux operating system called Robolinux which runs XP or 7, inside it, making our XP machines completely immune to all viruses and malware, requiring absolutely no updates or anti virus or anti malware software purchases." Sadly, I have to disagree... Robolinux runs VirtualBox, and its "protected form of XP" is just an XP install running in a VM... While the surrounding OS may be safe, if a virus... gets onto the machine, ...the practice of continuing to run XP is likely to result in some very bad days.

From Parad0X787's link, RoboLinux sounds interesting, at least to the Linux challenged like myself. To my neophyte mind, it does seem to insulate XP & mitigate many risks. I'd be interested to know the community's thoughts on the RoboLinux solution, and is it any different than just running XP in VirtualBox on Ubuntu?
»robolinux.org/

carpetshark3
Premium Member
join:2004-02-12
Idledale, CO

1 recommendation

carpetshark3 to Mashiki

Premium Member

to Mashiki
Offline XP running legacy software -

One reason I won't give it up - Adobe. I've got the software on cds, and have no damn intention of subscribing. I use it when I want to, and don't have to worry about a fee.

I have virtual XP on 7Pro - also due to Adobe messing up some CS2 products.

Anything else uses Kubuntu.

I never had any malware on XP anyway. I never bothered updating since I always had to go back and strip out all the extras MS thought I needed. I did use a FW, AM, and AV. The automatic response to any junk was EFF OFF. I'd pull the cable plug. I also rarely crashed. I used mostly Corel and Adobe software and as little of MS stuff as possible. Had programs like Stellarium on the computer, too.
I don't care if the offer is legit. If I don't want it, it's crap.

The tech updated the computer if I wanted new hardware.

No, it's all the extra stuff that's included. At least in Linux you can get rid of most of it. I want the OS only. I don't need IE, Windows defender (I prefer Eset) Games, Outlook, Workgroups, Mail, Photo Viewer. I have other preferences.

It's also reinstalling programs. My other half hates to do that. He got spoiled by having an IT dept, and security at work.

If phones and tablets can issue upgrades to the OS without disturbing everything, why can't MS?

cdo
@comcast.net

cdo to John Galt6

Anon

to John Galt6
I just had a great idea.

You know how police departments in some cities have a "Turn in a Gun Day"?

Microsoft should let XP'ers turn in an XP CD in exchange for a Windows 7 CD.
Velnias
join:2004-07-06
233322

Velnias to Fickey

Member

to Fickey
said by Fickey:

I'd be interested to know the community's thoughts on the RoboLinux solution, and is it any different than just running XP in VirtualBox on Ubuntu?

Robolinux is based on popular Debian distribution and uses VirtualBox, so yes - its the same approach.
BlitzenZeus
Burnt Out Cynic
Premium Member
join:2000-01-13

2 edits

1 recommendation

BlitzenZeus to Fickey

Premium Member

to Fickey
What snake oil, putting a os in a virtual machine doesn't make it immune from malware, but you can make snapshots which return it to a previous state, all changes are lost. For those curious here's virtualbox in action with.... XP Pro retail, and my retail license I bought in 2001 that I am allowed to put on a different machine provided it's the only install, unlike oem. By default the operating systems are windowed only, and you must install guest services to extend features, along with some drivers to the guest os.

Seamless, and you have wnidows and linux programs side by side.

scross
join:2002-09-13
USA

scross to PX Eliezer1

Member

to PX Eliezer1
said by PX Eliezer1:

I would gladly pay $ 50 a year for support. So would of millions of people AND companies. MS really blew this both from PR POV and from the money POV.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if MS doesn't eventually reverse course and do something like this. They're providing these patches for free now, so easy money. And they will be being PAID by large organizations (including government agencies) to produce new patches for at least a year or more still, so even easier money. (I won't even comment here on the fact that this paid patch fixing will be funded in large part with TAXPAYER money.)
psloss
Premium Member
join:2002-02-24

psloss to BlitzenZeus

Premium Member

to BlitzenZeus
said by BlitzenZeus:

What snake oil, putting a os in a virtual machine doesn't make it immune from malware, but you can make snapshots which return it to a previous state, all changes are lost.

Agreed, but to be fair to the author he responds clearly to those reader comments:
quote:
Sadly, I have to disagree with @george and the Piano Man. Robolinux runs VirtualBox, and its "protected form of XP" is just an XP install running in a VM. That's what I was talking about in my original article. The same is true of XP running in VMware. While the surrounding OS may be safe, if a virus (say one of the viruses that travel over SMB networks) gets onto the machine, VirtualBox, VMware, or any other VM or not, the practice of continuing to run XP is likely to result in some very bad days.
BlitzenZeus
Burnt Out Cynic
Premium Member
join:2000-01-13

BlitzenZeus

Premium Member

I suggest you just listen to their video, they said it makes it immune, and if something can be exploited, even if you can roll it back doesn't make it immune. It's nothing, but over the top pure snake oil advertising. I can't give them any creditability.

They also clearly stated you needed a licensed version of windows for this, and when people realize how a vm limits it's abilities like playing those popular games it should be apparent that it would have been better to just run windows in the first place as they likely bought oem, which isn't supposed to be moved. I simply just moved my retail license to a vm around the original eol. I had xp in a vm on Vista, but mostly just used it for software testing. These days I mostly just use my xp vm for netflix in linux.
psloss
Premium Member
join:2002-02-24

psloss

Premium Member

said by BlitzenZeus:

I suggest you just listen to their video, they said it makes it immune, and if something can be exploited, even if you can roll it back doesn't make it immune. It's nothing, but over the top pure snake oil advertising. I can't give them any creditability.

Nah, just commenting on the ZDNet column and testimonial within. Pointing out all the 'there's no such thing as a free lunch' instances is a full-time job and I already have plenty of those.
Millenium
join:2013-10-30

4 edits

4 recommendations

Millenium to John Galt6

Member

to John Galt6
Limited user account and alternate browser. Same as before April 8th. And speaking of April 8th, it's time to get the last updates...

An added step if you want to go a little further (eliminates built in Windows loop holes):

Using an admin account, open the security tab and set permissions for the C drive and all subfolders/files as full control for admins/system and read/execute for users. Select your user folder and disinherit its permissions, then set its and its subfolders/files permissions to full control for admins/system and write and read, but no execute for users. In this way your user accounts can not write to anywhere from which they can also execute: A road block to malware. Microsoft's default user permissions has holes in it that will allow a user account to write and execute from the same location. C:\Windows\Temp being one example.

Note: This will corrupt your recycle bin for users as they will no longer be able to write to it. Once you delete, the file is gone rather than "sent" to the recycle bin.