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Bhaskar K
Anon
2014-Apr-10 12:45 pm
[Electrical] Using a 220-240v 50-60Hz European appliance in USAHi All,
I have a coffee maker from Delonghi that has a burr grinder and heating elements that was gifted to me. It is made in Italy and rated for the following
220-240v 50-60Hz and 1450 Watts
Since this is rated for both frequencies of 50 and 60 Hz, do you think it is safe to change the plug and plug it into a 220v outlet at home ?
Comments and suggestions please |
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nunyaLXI 483 MVM join:2000-12-23 O Fallon, MO ·Charter
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nunya
MVM
2014-Apr-10 1:00 pm
Do you even have a 240V outlet at home in your kitchen? Most residential receptacles are 120V, with the few minor exceptions being appliances like the range, dryer, a welder, etc... My guess is you probably do not have a readily accessible 240V receptacle in your kitchen. The cost of installing one would probably far exceed the cost of a new coffee maker. For residential, we typically do not use 220V here in the U.S., we use 120/240 or in some cases 120/208. Sell it and get a new one designed for use in the U.S. |
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jap Premium Member join:2003-08-10 038xx |
to Bhaskar K
Yes. And don't need to change plug, can use an adapter. Recommend testing the socket with a multimeter to verify supply is within ranges tolerated by the appliances.
g'luck. burr grinders are nice to have. |
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Bhaskar K to nunya
Anon
2014-Apr-10 1:02 pm
to nunya
I do have a 240v outlet in my kitchen (had replaced a previously installed electric range with a gas range and have this outlet available). Provided I have this, would it be safe and according to US Code to plug this appliance in? |
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yes you will probably need an adapter made but it should work fine |
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Yes. I have an air compressor made in Belgium that's made for 240V. I put in a NEMA 6-15 outlet and it works fine. |
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jgriz join:2008-12-10 Saint Charles, IL |
to Bhaskar K
Just to clarify the rating a little bit. A rating of 220/240v 50/50Hz actually means that it can be used on 220v 50Hz OR 240v 60Hz. Europe uses 220v 50Hz and North America uses 240v 60Hz. The wattage is the same on either because 50Hz provides more "power" than 60Hz as the sine wave doesn't cross zero as many times in a second. |
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Bhaskar
Anon
2014-Apr-10 1:54 pm
Hello jgriz said by jgriz:Just to clarify the rating a little bit. A rating of 220/240v 50/50Hz actually means that it can be used on 220v 50Hz OR 240v 60Hz. Europe uses 220v 50Hz and North America uses 240v 60Hz. The wattage is the same on either because 50Hz provides more "power" than 60Hz as the sine wave doesn't cross zero as many times in a second. -- are you saying it will work and safe to use? or vice versa? |
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he's saying your fine, and the machine is actually rated for both us and europe power types |
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SparkChaser Premium Member join:2000-06-06 Downingtown, PA 1 edit |
to jgriz
said by jgriz:Just to clarify the rating a little bit. A rating of 220/240v 50/50Hz actually means that it can be used on 220v 50Hz OR 240v 60Hz. Europe uses 220v 50Hz and North America uses 240v 60Hz. The wattage is the same on either because 50Hz provides more "power" than 60Hz as the sine wave doesn't cross zero as many times in a second. Would you clarify that, keeping mind that the voltages are RMS. EDIT: to the OP it should work fine. I've been envious of some appliances in Europe on 220. |
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jgriz join:2008-12-10 Saint Charles, IL |
jgriz
Member
2014-Apr-10 4:32 pm
I work for a company that makes solenoid operated water valves for the appliance industry. 220/240 v 50/60 Hz is a standard rating. I frequently test valves for wattage drawn by the coil and heat generated by the coil and from a wattage standpoint and generated heat standpoint, you get the same results when you test at 220v 50Hz as you get when you test at 240v 60Hz. That is why they are rated that way. If you look at the rating that the OP posted it only listed one wattage. It is the same at 220v 50Hz as it is at 240v 60Hz. |
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SparkChaser Premium Member join:2000-06-06 Downingtown, PA
1 recommendation |
jgriz Don't want to derail the thread but you are talking inductive reactance vs a resistance heater. The wattage stated is probably 99.9% from the resistance heater. If you care to discuss the difference, we can talk about it in the Electronics Forum. |
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to Bhaskar K
I think a 220V outlet would have to be GFCI protected if used on a portable appliance in the kitchen.. |
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1 edit
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You can't put a 240V outlet on GFCI in North America. GFCI's measure the current going through the hot and the neutral. But 240V outlets in North America use two hots and no neutral.
It's probably possible to make a 240V GFCI outlet, but no one makes them. I'm pretty sure the code excludes 240V outlets in the close-to-water rule.
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leibold MVM join:2002-07-09 Sunnyvale, CA Netgear CG3000DCR ZyXEL P-663HN-51
1 recommendation |
GFCI do not require a neutral. Single phase GFCI (for a variety of voltages) can be used either with hot and neutral or with two hots. It is only the imbalance of the currents between the two wires that triggers the GFCI (and that works regardless whether one of the wires is grounded at the panel or not).
There are many companies that make 240V GFCI but most of them are made for non-US markets. |
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1 edit |
to cybersaga
30 amp 240 volt GFCI BreakerManufacturer: Square D Mfg Part#: HOM230GFI Sku: 221795711 UPC: 785901303237 UPC 14: 00785901303237 Package Weight: 1.2 lbs Features AIR @ 120VAC: 10k AIR Rating: 10k Amps: 30 Video Features Circuit Breaker Type: Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter (Class A - 5mA) Video Features Depth (In.): 2.98 Video Features For Use With: Homeline Load Centers Video Features Frame Size: 100A/HOM Video Features High Amp Trip Setting: 40.5 Video Features Instantaneous Trip: Fixed Video Features Item: Circuit Breaker Video Features Length (In.): 3.13 Video Features Max. Wire Size (AWG): 6 Video Features Min. Wire Size (AWG): 14 Video Features Number of Poles: 2 Video Features Panelboard Mounting: Plug-InVideo Features Phase Connection: Any Video Features Phase: 1 Video Features Standards: UL, CSA Video Features Terminal Connection: Screw Clamp Video Features Type: Panelboard Mount Video Features Voltage: 120/240 VAC Video Features Width (In.): 2.00
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nunyaLXI 483 MVM join:2000-12-23 O Fallon, MO |
to leibold
240V GFCI breakers are as common as cake here in the USA. I have 2 on my desk right now! Swimming pools, Hot tubs, Un-named kiosks - the list goes on. |
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Yeah, so I was mostly wrong. That's ok. I edited my post.
Though when I said no one makes 240V GFCI's, I meant outlets.
I poked through the code (Canadian) and I couldn't find any exception for 240V outlets, though I could have sworn I saw one before. I remember looking for the rules around having one in a garage, where I put mine. |
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nunyaLXI 483 MVM join:2000-12-23 O Fallon, MO ·Charter
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nunya
MVM
2014-Apr-10 10:32 pm
Canadian code generally follows the NEC. in 210.8 are the requirements for GFCI. All 125V (nom) 15 and 20 amp receptacles in a kitchen are required to b GFCI protected. 240V are not. Eventually Canadians will adopt NFPA 70 - at least that's the plan. They've been "aligning" for more than a decade now. They are much closer on NFPA 70E. |
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iknow_t
Member
2014-Apr-10 10:54 pm
said by nunya:Canadian code generally follows the NEC. in 210.8 are the requirements for GFCI. All 125V (nom) 15 and 20 amp receptacles in a kitchen are required to b GFCI protected. 240V are not. Eventually Canadians will adopt NFPA 70 - at least that's the plan. They've been "aligning" for more than a decade now. They are much closer on NFPA 70E. that's probably because you generally won't find portable appliances running off 240 Volts. (blenders, mixers, toasters, etc.) those in a kitchen would be dangerous without GFCI protection, just as a 120 Volt appliance would. the 240 Volt appliances in a kitchen are semi-permanent mounted, you don't move those around daily.. |
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European pwr to Bhaskar K
Anon
2014-Apr-11 6:44 am
to Bhaskar K
Electrically, it will work just fine. The safety of using the existing 240V range circuit is is slightly more complicated. At a bare minimum, it would be wise to replace the existing circuit breaker with a 15A or, at most a 20A. Even though it may not be required by current code, I strongly recommend using a circuit breaker with GFCI protection. I've got several customers who've moved here from the EU, Middle East and India which has make 240V general appliance circuits in the kitchen and throughout the house semi-common for me over the last few years. |
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Bhaskar K
Anon
2014-Apr-11 7:12 am
Thanks for the info. Yes, I have a 20 Amp circuit. I will make sure this is GFCI protected before plugging in the appliance. Is there Any other info I should be aware of? |
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Boooost to jgriz
Anon
2014-Apr-11 8:38 am
to jgriz
said by jgriz:The wattage is the same on either because 50Hz provides more "power" than 60Hz as the sine wave doesn't cross zero as many times in a second. In a word: No. |
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to Bhaskar K
yea the likelyhood you can attach 6 guage wire to a 20 amp breaker will be slim |
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Bhaskar Zk
Anon
2014-Apr-11 10:52 am
Yeah, trying to change #12 that is already in there which is according to code for a 20 Amp circuit to a #6 is probably a stretch and honestly overkill. Code says #12 for a 20 Amp circuit. Why do you think #6 is better? Any reason ? |
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lutful... of ideas Premium Member join:2005-06-16 Ottawa, ON 2 edits |
to Bhaskar K
said by Bhaskar K :It is made in Italy and rated for the following
220-240v 50-60Hz and 1450 Watts If the label and manual is very clear about that rating, you can power it from nominal 240V/60Hz from USA/Canada utilities ... provided you can somehow plug it in. *** I notice electricians have already pointed out that you can use the neutral conductor to bring in L2 from the panel to a new 240V socket. Assuming there is no code prohibitions, that is a good solution. Just make sure you clearly mark both ends to indicate that it is no longer neutral! Curiously when I first came to Canada, I designed a custom "wall plate" that plugs into both sockets of a standard dual 120V wall plate to tap into both lines for powering 240V stuff. It also added a 240V MOV for surge protection and a circuit breaker. Then I discovered NEC/CEC "regulations" and unpredictable residential wiring. |
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to Bhaskar Zk
said by Bhaskar Zk :Yeah, trying to change #12 that is already in there which is according to code for a 20 Amp circuit to a #6 is probably a stretch and honestly overkill. Code says #12 for a 20 Amp circuit. Why do you think #6 is better? Any reason ? you said this was a stove. in the US a stove is a 50AMP 240v connection which uses 6guage wire. what EXACTLY do you have? |
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sk1939 Premium Member join:2010-10-23 Frederick, MD ARRIS SB8200 Ubiquiti UDM-Pro Juniper SRX320
1 recommendation |
sk1939
Premium Member
2014-Apr-11 2:58 pm
said by LittleBill:said by Bhaskar Zk :Yeah, trying to change #12 that is already in there which is according to code for a 20 Amp circuit to a #6 is probably a stretch and honestly overkill. Code says #12 for a 20 Amp circuit. Why do you think #6 is better? Any reason ? you said this was a stove. in the US a stove is a 50AMP 240v connection which uses 6guage wire. what EXACTLY do you have? A coffee maker/grinder. » www.delonghi.com/de-DE/p ··· ications» www.delonghi.com/de-DE/p ··· ications |
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leibold MVM join:2002-07-09 Sunnyvale, CA Netgear CG3000DCR ZyXEL P-663HN-51
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I think most (if not all) of us understand what it is that the OP wants to connect. However what LittleBill is referring to was the existing 240V (the OP called it 220V) circuit. At one point it was supposed to be from a previously installed electric stove while in a later post it is supposedly a 20A circuit with 12awg wires. Circuits for electric stoves tend to be for currents higher then 20A and therefore it is very reasonable to question those statements made by the OP. |
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sk1939 Premium Member join:2010-10-23 Frederick, MD |
sk1939
Premium Member
2014-Apr-11 4:57 pm
Bill seems to be under the impression that it is a stove (or a hotplate), with all the talk of 6 gauge wire. |
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