dslreports logo
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc
Search similar:


uniqs
22262

Bhaskar K
@cimetrics.com

Bhaskar K

Anon

[Electrical] Using a 220-240v 50-60Hz European appliance in USA

Hi All,

I have a coffee maker from Delonghi that has a burr grinder and heating elements that was gifted to me. It is made in Italy and rated for the following

220-240v 50-60Hz and 1450 Watts

Since this is rated for both frequencies of 50 and 60 Hz, do you think it is safe to change the plug and plug it into a 220v outlet at home ?

Comments and suggestions please

nunya
LXI 483
MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
·Charter

nunya

MVM

Do you even have a 240V outlet at home in your kitchen? Most residential receptacles are 120V, with the few minor exceptions being appliances like the range, dryer, a welder, etc...
My guess is you probably do not have a readily accessible 240V receptacle in your kitchen. The cost of installing one would probably far exceed the cost of a new coffee maker.
For residential, we typically do not use 220V here in the U.S., we use 120/240 or in some cases 120/208.
Sell it and get a new one designed for use in the U.S.

jap
Premium Member
join:2003-08-10
038xx

jap to Bhaskar K

Premium Member

to Bhaskar K
Yes. And don't need to change plug, can use an adapter. Recommend testing the socket with a multimeter to verify supply is within ranges tolerated by the appliances.

g'luck. burr grinders are nice to have.

Bhaskar K
@cimetrics.com

Bhaskar K to nunya

Anon

to nunya
I do have a 240v outlet in my kitchen (had replaced a previously installed electric range with a gas range and have this outlet available). Provided I have this, would it be safe and according to US Code to plug this appliance in?
LittleBill
join:2013-05-24

LittleBill

Member

yes you will probably need an adapter made but it should work fine

cybersaga
join:2011-12-19
Selby, ON

cybersaga

Member

Yes. I have an air compressor made in Belgium that's made for 240V. I put in a NEMA 6-15 outlet and it works fine.
jgriz
join:2008-12-10
Saint Charles, IL

jgriz to Bhaskar K

Member

to Bhaskar K
Just to clarify the rating a little bit. A rating of 220/240v 50/50Hz actually means that it can be used on 220v 50Hz OR 240v 60Hz. Europe uses 220v 50Hz and North America uses 240v 60Hz. The wattage is the same on either because 50Hz provides more "power" than 60Hz as the sine wave doesn't cross zero as many times in a second.

Bhaskar
@cimetrics.com

Bhaskar

Anon

Hello jgriz
said by jgriz:

Just to clarify the rating a little bit. A rating of 220/240v 50/50Hz actually means that it can be used on 220v 50Hz OR 240v 60Hz. Europe uses 220v 50Hz and North America uses 240v 60Hz. The wattage is the same on either because 50Hz provides more "power" than 60Hz as the sine wave doesn't cross zero as many times in a second.

-- are you saying it will work and safe to use? or vice versa?
LittleBill
join:2013-05-24

LittleBill

Member

he's saying your fine, and the machine is actually rated for both us and europe power types

SparkChaser
Premium Member
join:2000-06-06
Downingtown, PA

1 edit

SparkChaser to jgriz

Premium Member

to jgriz
said by jgriz:

Just to clarify the rating a little bit. A rating of 220/240v 50/50Hz actually means that it can be used on 220v 50Hz OR 240v 60Hz. Europe uses 220v 50Hz and North America uses 240v 60Hz. The wattage is the same on either because 50Hz provides more "power" than 60Hz as the sine wave doesn't cross zero as many times in a second.

Would you clarify that, keeping mind that the voltages are RMS.

EDIT: to the OP it should work fine. I've been envious of some appliances in Europe on 220.
jgriz
join:2008-12-10
Saint Charles, IL

jgriz

Member

I work for a company that makes solenoid operated water valves for the appliance industry. 220/240 v 50/60 Hz is a standard rating. I frequently test valves for wattage drawn by the coil and heat generated by the coil and from a wattage standpoint and generated heat standpoint, you get the same results when you test at 220v 50Hz as you get when you test at 240v 60Hz. That is why they are rated that way. If you look at the rating that the OP posted it only listed one wattage. It is the same at 220v 50Hz as it is at 240v 60Hz.

SparkChaser
Premium Member
join:2000-06-06
Downingtown, PA

1 recommendation

SparkChaser

Premium Member

jgriz See Profile Don't want to derail the thread but you are talking inductive reactance vs a resistance heater. The wattage stated is probably 99.9% from the resistance heater. If you care to discuss the difference, we can talk about it in the Electronics Forum.
iknow_t
join:2012-05-03

iknow_t to Bhaskar K

Member

to Bhaskar K
I think a 220V outlet would have to be GFCI protected if used on a portable appliance in the kitchen..

cybersaga
join:2011-12-19
Selby, ON

1 edit

1 recommendation

cybersaga

Member

You can't put a 240V outlet on GFCI in North America. GFCI's measure the current going through the hot and the neutral. But 240V outlets in North America use two hots and no neutral.

It's probably possible to make a 240V GFCI outlet, but no one makes them. I'm pretty sure the code excludes 240V outlets in the close-to-water rule.

leibold
MVM
join:2002-07-09
Sunnyvale, CA
Netgear CG3000DCR
ZyXEL P-663HN-51

1 recommendation

leibold

MVM

GFCI do not require a neutral. Single phase GFCI (for a variety of voltages) can be used either with hot and neutral or with two hots. It is only the imbalance of the currents between the two wires that triggers the GFCI (and that works regardless whether one of the wires is grounded at the panel or not).

There are many companies that make 240V GFCI but most of them are made for non-US markets.

Jack_in_VA
Premium Member
join:2007-11-26
North, VA

1 edit

Jack_in_VA to cybersaga

Premium Member

to cybersaga
30 amp 240 volt GFCI Breaker

Manufacturer: Square D Mfg Part#: HOM230GFI Sku: 221795711 UPC: 785901303237 UPC 14: 00785901303237 Package Weight: 1.2 lbs

Features
AIR @ 120VAC: 10k
AIR Rating: 10k
Amps: 30
Video Features Circuit Breaker Type: Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter (Class A - 5mA)
Video Features Depth (In.): 2.98
Video Features For Use With: Homeline Load Centers
Video Features Frame Size: 100A/HOM
Video Features High Amp Trip Setting: 40.5
Video Features Instantaneous Trip: Fixed
Video Features Item: Circuit Breaker
Video Features Length (In.): 3.13
Video Features Max. Wire Size (AWG): 6
Video Features Min. Wire Size (AWG): 14
Video Features Number of Poles: 2
Video Features Panelboard Mounting: Plug-In
Video Features Phase Connection: Any
Video Features Phase: 1
Video Features Standards: UL, CSA
Video Features Terminal Connection: Screw Clamp
Video Features Type: Panelboard Mount
Video Features Voltage: 120/240 VAC
Video Features Width (In.): 2.00



nunya
LXI 483
MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO

nunya to leibold

MVM

to leibold
240V GFCI breakers are as common as cake here in the USA. I have 2 on my desk right now!
Swimming pools, Hot tubs, Un-named kiosks - the list goes on.

cybersaga
join:2011-12-19
Selby, ON

cybersaga

Member

Yeah, so I was mostly wrong. That's ok. I edited my post.

Though when I said no one makes 240V GFCI's, I meant outlets.

I poked through the code (Canadian) and I couldn't find any exception for 240V outlets, though I could have sworn I saw one before. I remember looking for the rules around having one in a garage, where I put mine.

nunya
LXI 483
MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
·Charter

nunya

MVM

Canadian code generally follows the NEC. in 210.8 are the requirements for GFCI. All 125V (nom) 15 and 20 amp receptacles in a kitchen are required to b GFCI protected. 240V are not.
Eventually Canadians will adopt NFPA 70 - at least that's the plan. They've been "aligning" for more than a decade now. They are much closer on NFPA 70E.
iknow_t
join:2012-05-03

iknow_t

Member

said by nunya:

Canadian code generally follows the NEC. in 210.8 are the requirements for GFCI. All 125V (nom) 15 and 20 amp receptacles in a kitchen are required to b GFCI protected. 240V are not.
Eventually Canadians will adopt NFPA 70 - at least that's the plan. They've been "aligning" for more than a decade now. They are much closer on NFPA 70E.

that's probably because you generally won't find portable appliances running off 240 Volts. (blenders, mixers, toasters, etc.) those in a kitchen would be dangerous without GFCI protection, just as a 120 Volt appliance would. the 240 Volt appliances in a kitchen are semi-permanent mounted, you don't move those around daily..

European pwr
@mycingular.net

European pwr to Bhaskar K

Anon

to Bhaskar K
Electrically, it will work just fine. The safety of using the existing 240V range circuit is is slightly more complicated. At a bare minimum, it would be wise to replace the existing circuit breaker with a 15A or, at most a 20A. Even though it may not be required by current code, I strongly recommend using a circuit breaker with GFCI protection. I've got several customers who've moved here from the EU, Middle East and India which has make 240V general appliance circuits in the kitchen and throughout the house semi-common for me over the last few years.

Bhaskar K
@charter.com

Bhaskar K

Anon

Thanks for the info. Yes, I have a 20 Amp circuit. I will make sure this is GFCI protected before plugging in the appliance. Is there Any other info I should be aware of?

Boooost
@151.190.40.x

Boooost to jgriz

Anon

to jgriz
said by jgriz:

The wattage is the same on either because 50Hz provides more "power" than 60Hz as the sine wave doesn't cross zero as many times in a second.

In a word: No.
LittleBill
join:2013-05-24

LittleBill to Bhaskar K

Member

to Bhaskar K
yea the likelyhood you can attach 6 guage wire to a 20 amp breaker will be slim

Bhaskar Zk
@mycingular.net

Bhaskar Zk

Anon

Yeah, trying to change #12 that is already in there which is according to code for a 20 Amp circuit to a #6 is probably a stretch and honestly overkill.
Code says #12 for a 20 Amp circuit. Why do you think #6 is better? Any reason ?
lutful
... of ideas
Premium Member
join:2005-06-16
Ottawa, ON

2 edits

lutful to Bhaskar K

Premium Member

to Bhaskar K
said by Bhaskar K :

It is made in Italy and rated for the following

220-240v 50-60Hz and 1450 Watts

If the label and manual is very clear about that rating, you can power it from nominal 240V/60Hz from USA/Canada utilities ... provided you can somehow plug it in.

*** I notice electricians have already pointed out that you can use the neutral conductor to bring in L2 from the panel to a new 240V socket. Assuming there is no code prohibitions, that is a good solution. Just make sure you clearly mark both ends to indicate that it is no longer neutral!

Curiously when I first came to Canada, I designed a custom "wall plate" that plugs into both sockets of a standard dual 120V wall plate to tap into both lines for powering 240V stuff. It also added a 240V MOV for surge protection and a circuit breaker. Then I discovered NEC/CEC "regulations" and unpredictable residential wiring.
LittleBill
join:2013-05-24

LittleBill to Bhaskar Zk

Member

to Bhaskar Zk
said by Bhaskar Zk :

Yeah, trying to change #12 that is already in there which is according to code for a 20 Amp circuit to a #6 is probably a stretch and honestly overkill.
Code says #12 for a 20 Amp circuit. Why do you think #6 is better? Any reason ?

you said this was a stove. in the US a stove is a 50AMP 240v connection which uses 6guage wire.

what EXACTLY do you have?

sk1939
Premium Member
join:2010-10-23
Frederick, MD
ARRIS SB8200
Ubiquiti UDM-Pro
Juniper SRX320

1 recommendation

sk1939

Premium Member

said by LittleBill:

said by Bhaskar Zk :

Yeah, trying to change #12 that is already in there which is according to code for a 20 Amp circuit to a #6 is probably a stretch and honestly overkill.
Code says #12 for a 20 Amp circuit. Why do you think #6 is better? Any reason ?

you said this was a stove. in the US a stove is a 50AMP 240v connection which uses 6guage wire.

what EXACTLY do you have?

A coffee maker/grinder.

»www.delonghi.com/de-DE/p ··· ications

»www.delonghi.com/de-DE/p ··· ications

leibold
MVM
join:2002-07-09
Sunnyvale, CA
Netgear CG3000DCR
ZyXEL P-663HN-51

leibold

MVM

I think most (if not all) of us understand what it is that the OP wants to connect. However what LittleBill See Profile is referring to was the existing 240V (the OP called it 220V) circuit.

At one point it was supposed to be from a previously installed electric stove while in a later post it is supposedly a 20A circuit with 12awg wires.

Circuits for electric stoves tend to be for currents higher then 20A and therefore it is very reasonable to question those statements made by the OP.

sk1939
Premium Member
join:2010-10-23
Frederick, MD

sk1939

Premium Member

Bill seems to be under the impression that it is a stove (or a hotplate), with all the talk of 6 gauge wire.