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calmblythe
Premium Member
join:2014-04-12
Toronto, ON

1 edit

calmblythe

Premium Member

[Cable] Is it possible to get Cable 25 at $34.99 instead of $41.95?

It's my first time getting Internet on my own and I've done considerable research and have compared Tek, Acanac, Start, and Electronic Box.

After reading many threads on multiple sites and comparing services on each ISP's sites, I'd settled on Electronic Box's Cable 25, ($34.95) because I'm on a budget and their price is great (I can't afford more than $40 after taxes and theirs comes to just about). However, EB doesn't have happy hours and UL and DL both count toward one considerably lower cap of 100GB/month, which raises concerns where overages are concerned.

I could go for Tek's Cable 6, as suggested by someone I chatted with via Tek's Online Help Centre, but I do pretty much everything short of gaming. I use P2P, stream high-def videos (on YouTube and Vimeo, primarily), video call on Skype and FaceTime, sync files via Dropbox, upload large assignments (graphic design work), etc. So I know 6Mbps is too low.

There's also the DSL 15/10, but I don't want to go the DSL route. I want Cable for its [theoretical] speed and reliability. Therein lies my dilemma.

After thinking about it, I figured I could ask for Cable 25 at the cost of DSL 15/10, but I was told that she (the tech support agent) 'didn't have the ability to negotiate that price.' I thought I'd ask here in case someone could help me. I don't even mind if the monthly cap gets dropped to 150- or 100GB or something, just as long as I can have a price within my budget, cable Internet, and the peace of mind that happy hours and free uploads provide.

JenSuisUn
Premium Member
join:2006-02-23
Chatham, ON

JenSuisUn

Premium Member

Hello,

We unfortunately wouldn't be able to lower the price of our service. However, if you could enlighten us as to the reason you wouldn't actually want to go with DSL? I can understancd that speed & reliability is what's important to you but as many have vouched in the past & present, DSL isn't really all that bad.

Regards,
Martin

ground
join:2008-01-16
Toronto, ON

ground to calmblythe

Member

to calmblythe
said by calmblythe:

There's also the DSL 15/10

If you don't have a telephone line with Bell the price will be $34.99 + $5 Dryloop fee = $39.99 which is almost the same as to what you're paying now. I would go for a lower speed package, currently I'm on 6 Meg plan for same reasons.

calmblythe
Premium Member
join:2014-04-12
Toronto, ON

calmblythe to JenSuisUn

Premium Member

to JenSuisUn
Honestly, as evidenced by all my research and my reason for preferring Cable, I just value peace of mind. I'm aware of the fact that DSL isn't so bad, but not knowing how far I am from the CO bothers me. I also know that Cable's ability to perform at its stated speed primarily depends on the usage in my area. Both, I can't account for because my apartment is where it is and the conditions there will be what they are, but the consensus seems to be that Cable is a bit more to considerably more stable. Again, this likely depends on where I am, but it's a bit more to hang on to, making it feel like the safer bet.

Does your DSL use FTTN?
calmblythe

calmblythe to ground

Premium Member

to ground
said by ground:

If you don't have a telephone line with Bell the price will be $34.99 + $5 Dryloop fee = $39.99

Do you mean if I don't have an active landline with Bell?

ground
join:2008-01-16
Toronto, ON

ground

Member

yes.

calmblythe
Premium Member
join:2014-04-12
Toronto, ON

calmblythe

Premium Member

Ugh! I don't. This is a new apartment I'm moving into (my first, really), and I don't have a landline, nor do I intend on getting one.

Teddy Boom
k kudos Received
Premium Member
join:2007-01-29
Toronto, ON

Teddy Boom to calmblythe

Premium Member

to calmblythe
said by calmblythe:

I could go for Tek's Cable 6, as suggested by someone I chatted with via Tek's Online Help Centre, but I do pretty much everything short of gaming. I use P2P, stream high-def videos (on YouTube and Vimeo, primarily), video call on Skype and FaceTime, sync files via Dropbox, upload large assignments (graphic design work), etc. So I know 6Mbps is too low.

Well, 6mbit/s download is probably fine, though a bit limiting. It is the upload that will cause you problems. Even the DSL 1mbit/s upload likely won't make you happy. It is often only ~0.7mbit/s in practice, and even full 1mbit/s is really not great.

So ya, there is DSL with 10mbit/s upload, and that is great, with some caveats. For an evaluation of the relative reliability of cable vs. DSL, check this out, you might find that DSL is more suitable to your situation than you think:
»Re: Objectively compare rCable and bDSL - Any tools?
mikee
join:2012-12-21
Gloucester, ON

mikee to calmblythe

Member

to calmblythe
rogers just released new packages on may 1st they should be available here. 6/1 will be 10/1, im pretty sure your apartment will have VDSL in it, most do and it's usually more reliable than cable these days.

but! if you are keen on getting cable maybe 30/5 would be better to wait (another speed that will be coming on may 1st) guessing it will be around 35-40$ but i can't say for sure yet

SimplePanda
BSD
Premium Member
join:2003-09-22
Montreal, QC

SimplePanda to calmblythe

Premium Member

to calmblythe
said by calmblythe:

Honestly, as evidenced by all my research and my reason for preferring Cable, I just value peace of mind. I'm aware of the fact that DSL isn't so bad, but not knowing how far I am from the CO bothers me. I also know that Cable's ability to perform at its stated speed primarily depends on the usage in my area. Both, I can't account for because my apartment is where it is and the conditions there will be what they are, but the consensus seems to be that Cable is a bit more to considerably more stable. Again, this likely depends on where I am, but it's a bit more to hang on to, making it feel like the safer bet.

Does your DSL use FTTN?

Generally, in my experience, DSL is more reliable than cable (I have both installed in my house right now as I use cable as a backup my VDSL2 connection).

To elaborate, both DSL and cable can be prone to "install issues". This is to say since Bell or Rogers will actually be doing your wiring they may just not show up, may do a half ass job, may randomly disconnect you after a few days, etc. Once these issues are worked out and your line is electrically "solid", in general DSL "just works" and cable can have some random quirkiness. Rogers, frankly, just isn't amazing at operating it's infrastructure. No other way to say it. Bell, as much as I despise them, are a little more competent at providing reliable services in terms of last mile.

Cable offers faster throughput at the high end but VDSL2 (FTTN) offers better latency. Cable latency is also more jitter prone than DSL, owing to the nature of cable.

15/10 will always be FTTN. Generally anytime you see uploads over 1Mbps you're going to be FTTN. If you can qualify for it you'll probably get pretty close. You may not get the full 10 upload (Bell will install a 15/10 or 25/10 line if they can ensure at least 3Mbps or higher on the upstream, last I checked) but you'll most likely get the 15 down.

15/10 isn't a bad plan if it fits your budget, especially considering TSI's 2am-8am and free uploads aspects.
BrianON
join:2011-09-30
Ottawa, ON

BrianON to calmblythe

Member

to calmblythe
Cable 6/256 gives you approx 2.4GB/hour downloads and 100MB/hour upload. Workable if you plan ahead - having an assignment or work done ahead of time and double checked lets you upload it early and only once instead of multiple times at the last minute. Video chat at 256kbps isn't ideal but workable with modern codecs.
morisato
join:2008-03-16
Oshawa, ON

morisato to calmblythe

Member

to calmblythe
sounds like you really need to Find $5 dollars in your budget if internet is so Central in Your life, and go with a faster tier, Though I personally would Suggest DSL based on your uploading habits Stated. Is an Ideal Compromise Giving u The currently highest Upload any ISP offers while providing Strong download.
Expand your moderator at work

Mike2009
join:2009-01-13
Ottawa, ON

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to calmblythe

Re: [Cable] Is it possible to get Cable 25 at $34.99 instead of $41.95?

My experience shows DSL is more reliable than cable.

calmblythe
Premium Member
join:2014-04-12
Toronto, ON

calmblythe to dallas1

Premium Member

to dallas1
said by Teddy Boom:

So ya, there is DSL with 10mbit/s upload, and that is great, with some caveats. For an evaluation of the relative reliability of cable vs. DSL, check this out, you might find that DSL is more suitable to your situation than you think:
»Re: Objectively compare rCable and bDSL - Any tools?

Thanks. Because of this, I've made up my mind that I'm going with DSL.
said by mikee:

but! if you are keen on getting cable maybe 30/5 would be better to wait (another speed that will be coming on may 1st) guessing it will be around 35-40$ but i can't say for sure yet

I was actually open to DSL; I just needed to be convinced of its stability.
said by SimplePanda:

Cable offers faster throughput at the high end but VDSL2 (FTTN) offers better latency. Cable latency is also more jitter prone than DSL, owing to the nature of cable.

15/10 will always be FTTN. Generally anytime you see uploads over 1Mbps you're going to be FTTN. If you can qualify for it you'll probably get pretty close. You may not get the full 10 upload (Bell will install a 15/10 or 25/10 line if they can ensure at least 3Mbps or higher on the upstream, last I checked) but you'll most likely get the 15 down.

15/10 isn't a bad plan if it fits your budget, especially considering TSI's 2am-8am and free uploads aspects.

I see... Yes, the 15/10 just makes all the sense in the world on my budget.
said by BrianON:

Cable 6/256 gives you approx 2.4GB/hour downloads and 100MB/hour upload. Workable if you plan ahead - having an assignment or work done ahead of time and double checked lets you upload it early and only once instead of multiple times at the last minute. Video chat at 256kbps isn't ideal but workable with modern codecs.

I'm all about experience and that doesn't sound very attractive.
said by morisato:

sounds like you really need to Find $5 dollars in your budget if internet is so Central in Your life, and go with a faster tier, Though I personally would Suggest DSL based on your uploading habits Stated. Is an Ideal Compromise Giving u The currently highest Upload any ISP offers while providing Strong download.

Yeah, I've decided on Tek's DSL 15/10. I'm just wondering if paying for dry loop is a monthly thing and if it can be waived because Electronic Box and Start provide free dry loop.
said by dallas1 :

Get start for your isp

After comparing Electronic Box, Start, and Tek in a spreadsheet, I think Tek's the best option, followed by EB.

ground
join:2008-01-16
Toronto, ON

ground

Member

said by calmblythe:

I'm just wondering if paying for dry loop is a monthly thing and if it can be waived

It's a monthly thing and it cannot be waived, unless you subscribe to TekTalk Unlimited. This fee goes directly to Bell, Teksavvy doesn't make money on it. Other providers you mentioned pay that fee to Bell themselves, which is reflected in their prices and/or download limits.

calmblythe
Premium Member
join:2014-04-12
Toronto, ON

1 edit

calmblythe

Premium Member

said by ground:

It's a monthly thing and it cannot be waived, unless you subscribe to TekTalk Unlimited. This fee goes directly to Bell, Teksavvy doesn't make money on it.

I see. I saw this, and I figured. It's fine. I'll just bite the bullet and pay for the dry loop. Getting TekTalk would just add to my bill.

My next questions are:
  1. I see Dry Loop bands A to G. Does the band matter? I reckon it doesn't, but I have to ask.

  2. I notice that there's a list of approved modems for Cable, but we have to buy/rent the SmartRG for DSL. Will I not be supported if I use any other modem on DSL, and in case I can use my own SmartRG (assuming I were able to get one on my own, in time), is there a model number I should be looking for?


ground
join:2008-01-16
Toronto, ON

ground

Member

said by calmblythe:

I see Dry Loop bands A to G. Does the band matter?

It used to matter a while ago, as your distance from the CO increased (from A to G) you paid higher dryloop fees. Now it all became the same price, so it doesn't matter really.
said by calmblythe:

we have to buy/rent the SmartRG for DSL

This particular modem is required because of the VDSL package with 10Mbit upload that you have chosen.
said by calmblythe:

Will I not be supported if I use any other modem on DSL

You can use any ADSL2+ modem with lower speed packages that have 1Mbit upload.
said by calmblythe:

case I can use my own SmartRG

Yes because DSL authenticates you based on the username and password and does not care about the modem, unlike cable internet that looks at your modem to identify you.
More info about SmartRG: »[DSL] SmartRG modems are now available..

calmblythe
Premium Member
join:2014-04-12
Toronto, ON

calmblythe

Premium Member

said by ground:

It used to matter a while ago, as your distance from the CO increased (from A to G) you paid higher dryloop fees. Now it all became the same price, so it doesn't matter really.

said by ground:

This particular modem is required because of the VDSL package with 10Mbit upload that you have chosen.

said by ground:

You can use any ADSL2+ modem with lower speed packages that have 1Mbit upload.

Ah, okay. Thanks.
said by ground:

Yes because DSL authenticates you based on the username and password and does not care about the modem, unlike cable internet that looks at your modem to identify you.
More info about SmartRG: »[DSL] SmartRG modems are now available..

Thanks. I'll most likely just buy Tek's modem since I'm still new to this. Once I've become seasoned enough, I'll look into sourcing my own (though I'll technically have my own after having bought this).

ground
join:2008-01-16
Toronto, ON

ground

Member

said by calmblythe:

Thanks. I'll most likely just buy Tek's modem since I'm still new to this.

Glad to help. Yeah, buying a modem from Tek is the safest route in terms of warranty and troubleshooting.
notfred
join:2012-09-15

notfred to SimplePanda

Member

to SimplePanda

To elaborate, both DSL and cable can be prone to "install issues". This is to say since Bell or Rogers will actually be doing your wiring they may just not show up, may do a half ass job, may randomly disconnect you after a few days, etc. Once these issues are worked out and your line is electrically "solid", in general DSL "just works" and cable can have some random quirkiness. Rogers, frankly, just isn't amazing at operating it's infrastructure. No other way to say it. Bell, as much as I despise them, are a little more competent at providing reliable services in terms of last mile.


I just have to give an "Amen Brother" to this, it is bang on based on my experience and seeing what my friends have been through.
komi
join:2011-07-08
North York, ON

komi to calmblythe

Member

to calmblythe
take a look at »secure.contact.net/plans/plus
$30 for VDSL 25/10 and 500 GB for the rest of the year
komi

komi to calmblythe

Member

to calmblythe
some good feedback here
»forums.redflagdeals.com/ ··· 1466870/

calmblythe
Premium Member
join:2014-04-12
Toronto, ON

calmblythe to komi

Premium Member

to komi
said by komi:

take a look at »secure.contact.net/plans/plus
$30 for VDSL 25/10 and 500 GB for the rest of the year

Ugh! I already went with Tek's 25/10. I was gonna go with the 15/10 but, with 25/10 being just $5, I figure, "Why not?"
technik0
join:2008-01-09
Guelph, ON
Technicolor TC4400
Hitron CDA3
Technicolor DCM476

technik0 to Mike2009

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to Mike2009
said by Mike2009:

My experience shows DSL is more reliable than cable.

My experience, on the other hand, is the exact opposite.

Used original late 90s ADSL, ADSL2+ and VDSL2/FTTC in the United Kingdom and it's way less reliable than cable here.
morisato
join:2008-03-16
Oshawa, ON

morisato

Member

Your experience with DSL in another country is Relevant to this how? P:) i mean cmon you don;t think it being The UK might be relevant?
technik0
join:2008-01-09
Guelph, ON

technik0

Member

The standards and technology are similar. Used Bell in Ottawa for DSL too.

Cable is better.

SimplePanda
BSD
Premium Member
join:2003-09-22
Montreal, QC

SimplePanda

Premium Member

said by technik0:

The standards and technology are similar. Used Bell in Ottawa for DSL too.

Cable is better.

I have a 50/10 VDSL2 line and a 60/10 DOCSIS 3.0 line installed in my house right now.

Cable has higher throughput levels (up to 250Mbps in Toronto right now).
DSL has lower latency, lower jitter and higher overall reliability.

This has always been my experience here in Toronto and and continues to be so.

Neither is "better" than the other. Both offer benefits and both have their drawbacks. It's all down to what you want/need in your connection and how much you're willing to pay for it.