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antdude
A Ninja Ant
Premium,VIP
join:2001-03-25
United State
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable

Why You Should Replace Microsoft Security Essentials With A Proper Antivirus

»www.makeuseof.com/tag/replace-mi···tivirus/ from »www.hardocp.com/news/2014/04/13/···virus63/

"Microsoft threw its hat in the anti-virus arena in 2009 with Microsoft Security Essentials (MSE), a tool that runs on Windows XP, 7 and 8. The move received early praise, as it seemed strange that the company had gone so long without providing even the most basic anti-virus protection, and early tests showed MSE to be nearly as effective as paid competitors.

The honeymoon didn’t last, however. More recent tests have shown that MSE doesn’t provide the features users should look for in an effective anti-virus. Here’s where it falls short – and what you should look for in a replacement..."

What happened to MSE?
--
Ant @ AQFL.net and AntFarm.ma.cx. Please do not IM/e-mail me for technical support. Use this forum or better, »community.norton.com ! Disclaimer: The views expressed in this posting are mine, and do not necessarily reflect the views of my employer.


PX Eliezer
Morrow Project fan
Premium
join:2013-03-10
Outland
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Optimum Voice
·callwithus
·Callcentric

1 recommendation

said by antdude:

What happened to MSE?

I think that Microsoft has been pretty clear about that from the beginning.

From your link:

Holly Stewart, senior program manager of the Microsoft Malware Protection Center, told Dennis Technology Labs that the company only pursues a “baseline strategy.” In other words, MSE isn’t designed to be good, and is instead developed to head off only the most prevalent attacks. She also said that “the natural progression is that we will always be on the bottom of these [antivirus] tests.” This is allegedly because Microsoft actively shares what it knows about security threats with third-party partners.

In some science fiction stories, in a future society if you were at the bottom of the society you had to eat some gruel or porridge-type thing called "standard fare".

That's what MSE is. Standard fare.


DownTheShore
Honoring The Captain
Premium
join:2003-12-02
Beautiful NJ
kudos:13
Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL

2 recommendations

reply to antdude

No one AV can stop everything. I don't think that MS has any interest in trying to take over all of the functions of all of the various AV companies throughout the world and displacing them, because that's what would be necessary if they wanted MSE to be the best-of-the-best.

MSE is good enough for people who don't want to pay for an AV.
MSE is good enough for people who practice safe hex.
MSE is good enough for people who don't even know that they should have an AV

As a corollary to that last point, and slightly off tangent: I'm watching QVC at the moment and they have HP Pavilion laptops as their Special Value today (AMD A8 Quad Core 8GB RAM 1TB HD) and part of the extra software pack they are including a lifetime subscription to McAfee. Now, I know what everyone here thinks of McAfee, but the point is that for the majority of QVC buyers, that is good enough for what they are going to be using their computers for and it eliminates the need to constantly renew their AV subscription. It means that those computers will always have active, updated AV coverage - which means that they are safer for everyone. It seems now that when QVC has a computer as its Special Value, it is automatically including a lifetime subscription to an AV as part of the package. That's how I got my Trend Micro lifetime subscription last year.
--
Patriotism is not waving a flag, it is living the ideals

I want to retire to the Isle of Sodor and ride the trains.

Life is just better when Jeter is in the lineup.



NOYB
St. John 3.16
Premium
join:2005-12-15
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:1
reply to antdude


No mention of Windows Defender?


Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to antdude

An idiot wrote that. MSE DOES NOT RUN ON Windows 8.

Windows Defender on Windows 8 is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from MSE on earlier versions of Windows.

That author needs to get his facts straight. MSE is so-so but Windows Defender on Windows 8 is excellent. It is so good that if Microsoft cuts Windows 8.0 users off next year when 8.0 goes unsupported, I will upgrade to 8.1 which I do NOT want at all ever but if the only way I can continue to use Windows Defender after a year from now is to upgrade Windows 8.0 Pro to 8.1 Pro (which is worse junk than 8.0 IMO) then I will do it.

Anyone posting here should be following AV-Test and AVComparatives sites and would have known for a long while that Microsoft's MSE is used to establish a baseline for AV testing and Microsoft itself has stated this. That's MSE. Windows Defender on Windows 8 is completely different and no other AV is needed but with MSE on earlier versions of Windows one has always needed to run third party AV along with MSE or innplace of it.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson


HarryH3
Premium
join:2005-02-21
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Suddenlink

2 recommendations

said by Mele20:

That author needs to get his facts straight. MSE is so-so but Windows Defender on Windows 8 is excellent.

You constantly spout your praises for Defender, yet Microsoft claims that Defender does even LESS than MSE:

"What's the difference between Microsoft Security Essentials and Windows Defender?

Microsoft Security Essentials is antimalware software, which means that it's designed to detect and help protect your PC against a wide range of malicious software, including viruses, spyware, and other potentially unwanted software. Windows Defender, which is automatically installed with your Windows operating system, is software that detects and stops spyware. To learn more about Windows Defender, visit the Windows Defender website. "

Found at: »windows.microsoft.com/en-US/wind···software


nwrickert
sand groper
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Geneva, IL
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Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse

1 recommendation

said by HarryH3:

Windows Defender, which is automatically installed with your Windows operating system, is software that detects and stops spyware.

That describes Windows Defender for Win7 and Vista. It is incorrect as applied to Windows 8.
--
AT&T Uverse; Buffalo WHR-300HP router (behind the 2wire gateway); openSuSE 13.1; KDE 4.11.5; firefox 28.0

PX Eliezer
Morrow Project fan
Premium
join:2013-03-10
Outland
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Reviews:
·Optimum Voice
·callwithus
·Callcentric

1 recommendation

reply to HarryH3

IIRC part of the confusion is that MS has used the "Defender" name twice, for somewhat different products.

The [older] Defender, not very powerful, was downloadable for XP and included with Win7. But it was pretty much discontinued in 2009 and superseded by MSE.

The [newer] Defender included with Win8 is a stronger AV program.


Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to HarryH3

"Windows 8's integrated Defender is a full anti-malware solution that takes advantage of some additional security enhancements (as the Measured/Secure Boot and ELAM features) built-in to the OS, to enable it to start actively defending the system from a known good environment faster, reducing potential blind spots in their coverage.

Windows Defender and Windows SmartScreen on Windows 8 is all you need to help you guard your PC against viruses, spyware, and other malicious software in real time."

»answers.microsoft.com/en-us/prot···2fae6c9f

Educate yourself here:

»answers.microsoft.com/en-us/prot···72fabb92

I don't use Windows Smart Screen. Plus, I don't have Windows Updates service turned on except when I do patches on Microsoft Tuesday because the Windows Installer requires WU to be running when you install a security patch even if you have downloaded the patch to disk from Windows Downloads site. So, I don't get to take advantage of the neat feature Windows Defender on Windows 8 has whereby, if there is a zero day alert, or if Defender encounters suspicious code it is not sure about an immediate forced update occurs in the first instance and, in the second, Defender sends the questioned code to Microsoft and waits for instructions. Even though I don't have these neat features operable, I still feel well protected by Windows Defender and those who do keep Windows Updates service always enabled (the majority of users) have these additional neat features.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson


HarryH3
Premium
join:2005-02-21
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Suddenlink

None of that explains how my wifes Win 8.1 system got some bullshit "Deal" adware installed it last week. "Defender" didn't defend a damn thing.

Avast cleaned it off the system in seconds. You feel free to keep living in your "Microsoft will take care of me" dream world.



Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
Reviews:
·ooma
·Comcast
·Callcentric
·Site5.com

said by HarryH3:

None of that explains how my wifes Win 8.1 system got some bullshit "Deal" adware installed it last week. "Defender" didn't defend a damn thing.

Avast cleaned it off the system in seconds. You feel free to keep living in your "Microsoft will take care of me" dream world.

Do we really need to rehash the same old discussions in here that have been going on for years? No one antivirus or malware protection is going to be able to protect you from everything. Some AVs are better than others for sure. Same goes for malware protection and removal.
--
My domain - Nightfall.net


NOYB
St. John 3.16
Premium
join:2005-12-15
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:1
reply to HarryH3

said by HarryH3:

None of that explains how my wifes Win 8.1 system got some bullshit "Deal" adware installed it last week. "Defender" didn't defend a damn thing.

Avast cleaned it off the system in seconds. You feel free to keep living in your "Microsoft will take care of me" dream world.


There are possibilities for this that have nothing to do with either product being better or worse than the other.

To start with you have not provided any baseline showing that Avast would have prevented the infection either. Removing it after the fact is not the same thing (apples and oranges).

--
Be a Good Netizen - Read, Know & Complain About Overly Restrictive Tyrannical ISP ToS & AUP »comcast.net/terms/ »verizon.net/policies/
Say Thanks with a Tool Points Donation


Dustyn
Premium
join:2003-02-26
Ontario, CAN
kudos:11

1 recommendation

reply to Nightfall

Sometimes I think people in this forum need to hug it out.



deke40
Premium
join:2003-01-23
Texas
reply to nwrickert

said by nwrickert:

said by HarryH3:

Windows Defender, which is automatically installed with your Windows operating system, is software that detects and stops spyware.

That describes Windows Defender for Win7 and Vista. It is incorrect as applied to Windows 8.

One more thing to mention about MSE and Defender on Vista and Win7:

"Before installation, MSE checks for a validated copy of Windows and should automatically disable (not uninstall) Windows Defender on Vista and Windows 7 and uninstall it from XP because it provides the same type of protection against spyware as Windows Defender."

PrntRhd
Premium
join:2004-11-03
Fairfield, CA
Reviews:
·Comcast

said by deke40:

said by nwrickert:

said by HarryH3:

Windows Defender, which is automatically installed with your Windows operating system, is software that detects and stops spyware.

That describes Windows Defender for Win7 and Vista. It is incorrect as applied to Windows 8.

One more thing to mention about MSE and Defender on Vista and Win7:

"Before installation, MSE checks for a validated copy of Windows and should automatically disable (not uninstall) Windows Defender on Vista and Windows 7 and uninstall it from XP because it provides the same type of protection against spyware as Windows Defender."

True, which is why Windows immediately nagged for a Windows Defender update after I removed MSE from the wife's Win 7 PC.



Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7

1 edit
reply to antdude

 
MSE runs on Vista too.



Exidor
Premium
join:2001-05-04
Brampton, ON

1 recommendation

reply to antdude

This feels like déjà vu all over again.

»Microsoft No Longer Recommends Their Own MSE AV Package



David
I start new work on
Premium,VIP
join:2002-05-30
Granite City, IL
kudos:101
reply to antdude

I wonder if ahulett See Profile should drop by.



DarkSithPro

join:2005-02-12
Tempe, AZ
kudos:2

1 recommendation

reply to antdude

The problem with AV is people expect it to catch malware, your best is to hope it does, but don't expect it to. Also if someone is going to spend a great deal of time to write malware, do you really think your Norton or McAfee is any special? Do you not think the malware developer would be smart enough to download the same version of popular AVS like the one you have and test his malware? C'mon get real guys...



KodiacZiller
Premium
join:2008-09-04
73368
kudos:2
reply to antdude

LOL @ people who think AV software provides any kind of real security. AV software is, and always has been, a money making scheme to dupe the ignorant.

Expand your moderator at work

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to David

Re: Why You Should Replace Microsoft Security Essentials With A Proper Antivirus

Not really. People just need to learn how to read. People in this thread are still confusing MSE and OLDER Windows Defender for OSes prior to Windows 8 with Windows Defender on Windows 8. People also need to educate themselves regarding safe hex but most don't want to bother with that rather they just want to childishly believe that they can have their cake and eat also.

Windows Defender on Windows 8 is not perfect but neither is any other AV and all the others have FP's - Avast destroys users computers and it a very bad choice because of this history they have, whereas, Microsoft has never had FPs so it is much safer to use (but the idiots who insist on registry cleaners are also the ones who want to play Russian Roulette by choosing an AV that has a bad history of FP's and destroying the computers it is supposed to protect.. That is why it goes without saying that all users MUST learn safe hex and practice it 100% of the time).
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson



clock

join:2007-05-02
Roslindale, MA
reply to antdude

MSE = Windows Defender in Windows 8/8.1/8.1 Update.

Microsoft decided to rebrand Security Essentials as Defender with Windows 8. I'm not down with the naming convention, but Microsoft hasn't had a great track record with naming things, have they?

It uses the same scanning engine as MSE, with a few added benefits like ELAM, Smart screen, and secure boot built-in to Windows 8.

IMO Defender does a good job of virus protection. Spyware/Adware, not so much. If you're smart about what you do on the 'net, and don't click yes on everything, Defender will be fine.



Elite

join:2002-10-03
Orange, CT
Reviews:
·Optimum Online
reply to antdude

Get mad.

»blogs.technet.com/b/mmpc/archive···ach.aspx

^ MS claims they'll start flagging "adware" with MSE (Defender in 8.*) starting July 1st.

Dunno what the fuck took them so long.


PrntRhd
Premium
join:2004-11-03
Fairfield, CA
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to Mele20

Mele20,
Avast has not "destroyed" any PCs I have installed it on, I guess I have been luckier than you.

There have been instances of FPs but Avast is not different than other signature AV vendors with the same problem..Symantec, Trend Micro, McAffee, Kaspersky....they all have had occasional issues with FPs.

MSE did not FP, but it may not always have great detection of real bugs. I personally don't think a false sense of security is necessarily better in the case of security software.



David
I start new work on
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Granite City, IL
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Reviews:
·DIRECTV
·AT&T Midwest
·magicjack.com
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reply to antdude

if it helps...

I have this running on machines in my house

1.) avast with windows defender on "anakin"
2.) Yoda has AVG
3.) Asajjventress is running panda cloud antivirus
4.) wife's laptop is running MSE
5.) my laptop is running MSE

So I have a variety, neither get infected and all have adblock* (see note) with either pale moon, and/or google chrome.

Note: Except the wife's cause she swears she has to have IE or the internet won't function... Don't get me started on that one...
--
02/24/14- My hours recently changed. I work 11:30 A.M. to 10 P.M. central time. I am not in the office on friday, saturday, or sunday. Thanks-David


computerman2
Premium
join:2002-04-20
Rockwood, MI
reply to Mele20

Avast not Destroyed any of the PC's I have Avast on, been running it since 2006, on whole house hold PC's

3 Desktops, 1 Laptop

No issues, or major false positive problems that I seen at all.

Feel safer with Avast myself so far


Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to PrntRhd

I fully agree one should not have a sense of false security with Avast like so many here do or with any AV. The only thing that will keep you safe is iron discipline practicing safe hex at all times, and avoiding all risky behaviors ALWAYS. This, of course, assumes one has first educated themselves as to how to practice safe hex.

An important thing these days is to use the Proxomitron or an adblocker plus Ghostery.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson



Cheese
Premium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
kudos:1

6 recommendations

No offense, but you are the last person that should be giving security advice.


PrntRhd
Premium
join:2004-11-03
Fairfield, CA
Reviews:
·Comcast

3 edits

2 recommendations

reply to Mele20

Mele20

"Use of the program requires knowledge of the Proxomitron scripting language, and some familiarity with at least one of HTTP, HTML, JavaScript, and CSS. The scripting interface was not designed to be user-friendly. Because of these complications, the program can be difficult to customize for novice or non-technical users."
You still have to rely on others with skills to develop new filters for your use.

The Proxomitron is a only a good web filter program, and it is not a virus/malware detection and repair utility.

I actually do more than surf the web, so I need more surfaces covered than what you suggest.
I use layered security. A good AV, Internet executable s filtered via NoScript/Adblock Plus, and Malwarebytes-paid version for active anti-malware, plus all programs updated, particularly pdf reading and JavaRE reliant applications.

No false security here, real stuff.