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oldsam
join:2011-05-30

oldsam

Member

Experiencing EXTREMELY slow internet after 20gb mark

This has been happening for about two weeks now. Whenever the household crosses the 20GB mark, internet comes to a screeching halt.

I'm on the 25/10 unlimited plan, and I have about 17 devices connected at any given time (big household), and we're all very heavy users. The connection averages around 23gb a day. Anyways, I've always noticed that we routinely went over the 20gb limit with nothing but unnoticable slowdowns, like 8-15mbps. That was more than ok, as it is enough to stream Netflix, Plex, etc without any hiccups. That's not the case anymore.

I can actually feel when the throttling kicks in. For example, I just crossed the 20gb limit a few minutes ago, and immediately Netflix drops to a very low resolution, and everyone in the house starts texting me asking me to fix the connection. When I signed up, I was told that the throttling would still allow for average tasks. No one in the house torrents during the day, as they all know of the limit imposed.

Here's a speedtest I just took:



Is this normal? I even tried to connect my computer directly to the modem, with similar results.
wilsonlam97
join:2010-12-08
Scarborough, ON

wilsonlam97

Member

I don't think Start throttles your connection, especially after only 20 gigs. However, they should increase their caps on non-unlimited plans to compete with CIK, Distributel, and TekSavvy.
alpovs
join:2009-08-08

1 edit

alpovs to oldsam

Member

to oldsam
I would think that's how unlimited works - if you routinely go over the daily limit it will put you to lower and lower priority every day. It seems now your connection is given the lowest priority. Of course, only Rocca can give you the final answer.
said by oldsam:

everyone in the house starts texting me

Wow! Your house must be very big if they can't come and see you or shout, at least.

damir
join:2013-12-12
CANADA

damir

Member

he probably owns the building, everybody is using "free" internet there

dillyhammer
START me up
Premium Member
join:2010-01-09
Scarborough, ON

dillyhammer to oldsam

Premium Member

to oldsam
Should probably have a read here:

»Unlimited usage policy experiences

... paying particular attention to the comments of Senor Rocca, who describes this effect in great detail.

Sounds like you are running afoul of the fair use stuff.

Mike
alpovs
join:2009-08-08

alpovs to oldsam

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to oldsam
This particular post: »Re: Unlimited usage policy experiences
alpovs

alpovs to oldsam

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to oldsam
I just noticed that your upload is also affected. I think it shouldn't be and should still be 10Mbps. Rocca?

Maybe you are experiencing a node congestion.
oldsam
join:2011-05-30

oldsam to damir

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to damir
said by damir:

he probably owns the building, everybody is using "free" internet there

Ha, I just live with my family (6 people in total) and we're all very lazy. They would all rather text me and ask what's wrong than leave their desk/bed/couch

TOPDAWG
Premium Member
join:2005-04-27
Calgary, AB

TOPDAWG to oldsam

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to oldsam
So OP is this happening on just weekends or every night you never said.

rocca
Start.ca
Premium Member
join:2008-11-16
London, ON

rocca to oldsam

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to oldsam
Those numbers don't look like anything that we'd be doing on end and as someone else mentioned the upload is tanked too so I suspect it's just people in your house maxing out your connection with your 17+ devices.

Do keep in mind however that our unlimited plan is based on a fair use policy so if you're hitting the prioritization trigger every single night then you are eventually going to find a night where you aren't getting full speeds. Our plan is designed for those who don't want to worry about usage vs people maxing it out at peak every night which is why it's $10/mo instead of $1000/mo. If you're doing a TB/month then it might not be a good fit for you.
oldsam
join:2011-05-30

oldsam

Member

said by rocca:

Those numbers don't look like anything that we'd be doing on end and as someone else mentioned the upload is tanked too so I suspect it's just people in your house maxing out your connection with your 17+ devices.

Do keep in mind however that our unlimited plan is based on a fair use policy so if you're hitting the prioritization trigger every single night then you are eventually going to find a night where you aren't getting full speeds. Our plan is designed for those who don't want to worry about usage vs people maxing it out at peak every night which is why it's $10/mo instead of $1000/mo. If you're doing a TB/month then it might not be a good fit for you.

Thanks for the reply.
It is not an issue of congestion within the house, as I tried running a speedtest while the pc was connected directly to the modem.

I understand that I should not be using it as a dedicated line, and I'm not. I have lectured my family and let them know not to torrent during the day (most of them don't even know what torrenting is), but usage is still through the roof for some reason. I guess that's what happens when you have 6 people, each with a smart phone, laptop and a tablet, plus a bunch of chromecasts and a couple of Apple TVs.

Here's my usage for last month. Very high, but not TB high. The REALLY big spikes are mostly due to large torrents being downloaded overnight by me.
»i.imgur.com/bR1VWE4.png

I just ordered a new router which lets me track usage per person, as everyone is claiming they do nothing but facebook, some emails and Reddit. I don't buy that.

My point is, is this behaviour normal? Is my overly internet dependent family being punished? Are we so internet abusive that you guys put a label on our account?

HiVolt
Premium Member
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON

HiVolt

Premium Member

Perhaps you need to order a second service and spread out the usage a bit... You're definitely costing your ISP more than you're paying in monthly fees.

merc782
join:2012-11-19
Ottawa

merc782 to oldsam

Member

to oldsam
ElectronicBox ISP started offering Cable plans on Rogers/Ontario Region and they have 1TB usage plans. Check it out

Davesnothere
Change is NOT Necessarily Progress
Premium Member
join:2009-06-15
Canada

3 edits

Davesnothere to oldsam

Premium Member

to oldsam
 
Respectable PING, though.

One thing to try is to find ways to actively limit your UPSTREAM traffic yourself.

If your peeps do torrents, then limit the global maximum upstream at each PC's torrent app (easy to config in uTorrent) to, say HALF of what your plan says you should have.

Also limit its downloads similarly.

Sometimes NetFlix alone can be a 'killer'.

It is possible that some folks are doing stuff about which they are not telling you.

Or, Rogers may be having local issues.

Also, is your WiFi locked down properly ? (in case a neighbour might be leeching usage/bandwidth)

Lastly, at about 10 PM, get everyone to STOP and CLOSE whatever they are doing, and repeat the wired speed test yet again, posting the result here, labelled appropriately.
Davesnothere

Davesnothere to oldsam

Premium Member

to oldsam
said by oldsam:

This has been happening for about two weeks now.

Whenever the household crosses the 20GB mark, internet comes to a screeching halt....

 
If you cross 20GB at 3PM, does the the screech happen immediately, or still at 8 PM ?

rocca
Start.ca
Premium Member
join:2008-11-16
London, ON

rocca to oldsam

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to oldsam
said by oldsam:

My point is, is this behaviour normal

No it wouldn't be, and this definitely was not caused by the fair use policy. Ie, whatever happened during that speed test is not related to the policy at all particularly since there is an abundance of capacity at 8pm. So if you're getting slow speeds when you're directly connected to the router and someone else isn't maxing it out while you're not paying attention, give us a call and we'd be happy to help trouble-shoot.
said by oldsam:

Are we so internet abusive that you guys put a label on our account?

We don't label any accounts as abusive.

That said, if you're hitting the trigger every night, then there are going to be times that are slower but the above example wasn't one of them.

Hope that helps.
oldsam
join:2011-05-30

oldsam

Member

said by Davesnothere:

If you cross 20GB at 3PM, does the the screech happen immediately, or still at 8 PM ?

I noticed this only happens after 8pm. Connection is perfect during the day, and after 1am.
said by rocca:

That said, if you're hitting the trigger every night, then there are going to be times that are slower but the above example wasn't one of them.

Hope that helps.

Thanks for the reply. I'll give you guys a call later on tonight. I feel guilty for going through so much bandwidth, but a lot of that bandwidth usually happens outside the rush hour. I'm gonna crack down on the bandwidth hog as soon as I get my new router!

Teddy Boom
k kudos Received
Premium Member
join:2007-01-29
Toronto, ON

Teddy Boom

Premium Member

said by oldsam:

I'm gonna crack down on the bandwidth hog as soon as I get my new router!

Which router?

ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium Member
join:2005-03-14
Woodstock, CT

ptrowski to dillyhammer

Premium Member

to dillyhammer
said by dillyhammer:

Should probably have a read here:

»Unlimited usage policy experiences

... paying particular attention to the comments of Senor Rocca, who describes this effect in great detail.

Sounds like you are running afoul of the fair use stuff.

Mike

Funny, in that thread the OP talks about doing 60 GB a day.....
oldsam
join:2011-05-30

oldsam to Teddy Boom

Member

to Teddy Boom
said by Teddy Boom:

Which router?

I'm going to go with this one »www.newegg.ca/Product/Pr ··· 33162077

Some people suggested I convert one of my old PCs into a dedicated router and just get a wifi access point, but I don't think I'm willing to spend too much time and effort into it, and this router has some pretty good reviews.

You're very knowledgeable with these devices, what do you think of the Buffalo WZR-1750DHP? I'm going to flash DD-WRT on it when I figure out how that is done.
oldsam

oldsam to ptrowski

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to ptrowski
said by ptrowski:

Funny, in that thread the OP talks about doing 60 GB a day.....

Yes, christmas break was brutal. Usage was way higher than the average. I attached a picture showing usage for last month, nowhere near as high as 60 a day. The days that are above 25gb a day are due to downloading large torrents overnight during the 2-7am period.

Teddy Boom
k kudos Received
Premium Member
join:2007-01-29
Toronto, ON

Teddy Boom to oldsam

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Well, yes and no... No hands on experience with the high end stuff at all, because it just doesn't fit my customers needs. Very likely a good idea for you though, with such intense demands on it.

The re-purposing of a PC can cost a lot in wasted electricity.

For the Buffalo, wikidevi says this:
»wikidevi.com/wiki/Buffal ··· -1750DHP
CPU1: Broadcom BCM4708A0
(which is »www.broadcom.com/product ··· 708-4709)
FLA1: 128 MiB (Zentel A5U1GA31ATS-BC)
RAM1: 512 MiB (PieceMakers PMF512816ABR-KADN)

Which is definitely respectable for the price.

Wireless performance is about crowding from neighbours, raw range, support of whatever technology level by the device communicating with the router, and in some/many cases older devices clawing the speed of the entire network back. Because of that, I don't think the AC1750 rating is particularly important.

First question for wireless is: what is the wireless environment like. I assume you have a single family home that might be fairly big. In your case I'm not even sure dual band is important.. 5GHz has limited range, and limited ability to penetrate walls. Meanwhile, you aren't likely to have a lot of interfering networks.

Probably more important, in your case, have multiple wireless access points connected with network cable to properly cover the space. For dual band, I believe N600 routers will be adequate (N600 should imply simultaneous dual band with at least a 2x2:2 MIMO configuration). Single band routers would probably be enough though. For others, in old construction apartments and student ghetto neighbourhoods, dual band is critical.

So finally there is the issue of technology level supported by various devices.. The entire MIMO thing is very confusing:
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIMO
For the longest time I dismissed it as purse marketing, because I didn't see the effect on the ground, but in fact it works very well. You just have to make sure the device and router both support it. You'd be amazed how common garbage wireless N wifi cards are in consumer gear. For example I have a quad-core i7 laptop with a single band 1x1:1 wifi card in it. Might as well be wireless G! Upgrade to a modern wifi card (not always easy to do because astonishingly laptop manufacturers often lock the BIOS to approved wireless cards!)

This looks like an interesting primer on the evolution of wifi technology:
»www.motorolasolutions.co ··· -web.pdf

Open question I'm working on, how does MIMO do in VERY crowded wifi environments like old construction high rises? Also, I'm often turning off auto channel selection, because I feel like it sometimes causes wifi drops, but I'd like other people's experience.

I don't have any more time for organizing these wifi thoughts right now, but maybe that's helpful?

Finally, I really like Tomato more than DD-WRT, because I find it much more intuitive overall. The Shibby build I'm using does have per IP usage history.. I guess the reason I asked was, better ways of breaking down the usage history would be interesting Sounded like you might have found that.. Maybe DD-WRT does a better job in that area?
DeViLzzz
join:2004-07-29
Sarnia, ON

DeViLzzz to oldsam

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to oldsam
oldsam you are drawing attention to yourself by mentioning the torrent downloading but yes even without that I think it is easy for a person to hit that per month even if the person had all paid for downloads and services

One thing I would recommend, which I tell my son to do, is to have people in your household or whatever watch more videos in 360p or if they have to have HD watch it in 720p once in awhile. Point is do the little things to save usage.

I think this thread also shows why MS, Sony and others that support going all download/digital transactions for things need to be quiet. There still is a place for games and other things on media because usage levels are still not where they need to be for many and some people do not want to pay for unlimited or can't pay for unlimited and some companies don't even offer it.

oceros37
join:2013-07-20
St Thomas, ON

oceros37 to oldsam

Member

to oldsam
test#1 is definitely to plug in 1 computer direct to modem when its problematic. i bet someone is hogging your bandwidth and you won't have a problem at all with just 1 pc to modem.

that means its time to have a 2nd connection to the home, or set up some QOS in your router.