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RobinK
join:2004-04-16
Canada

RobinK

Member

Know your rights in Canada

I have come to see tons of videos and websites that inform people of their rights and know to properly handle police encounters at check points, random pull overs, door visits and so fourth. However these are all American base information and sometimes do not even state what states they are valid in.

I been curious what are our rights in these situations in Canada? Do they vary from province to province? What am I required to say and show a police officer and what I am not required to say and show? When do I have to do what they tell me and when can I walk away?

I cannot seem to find this information that is specific to Canadians (specifically, Ontario) and up to date.

dirtyjeffer0
Posers don't use avatars.
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join:2002-02-21
London, ON

dirtyjeffer0

Premium Member

i would recommend complying with their requests, and if you disagree with something, go through the appropriate channels afterwards..."walking away" from police is not likely to end well for you.

as for a general answer, it really depends on the specific case...there a few in here familiar with what to do, but may require more specifics to give a concrete answer.

elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium Member
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in

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elwoodblues

Premium Member

Bzzt wrong.

One question "Am I under arrest" if the answer is no, walk away.

LazMan
Premium Member
join:2003-03-26
Beverly Hills, CA

3 recommendations

LazMan

Premium Member

said by elwoodblues:

Bzzt wrong.

One question "Am I under arrest" if the answer is no, walk away.

No, that's incorrect. You do not have to be under arrest to be 'detained' under Canadian law...

The police can detain you without putting you under arrest. In order to detain you, the police must have a reasonable suspicion that you are connected with a crime, and that your detention is reasonably necessary in the totality of the circumstances. If the police haven%u201Ft specifically said you are being detained, you can ask, "am I being detained?" If they say yes, you have a right to know why you are being detained.

»ccla.org/wordpress/wp-co ··· -Act.pdf

El Quintron
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join:2008-04-28
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I think there may be some confusion in this thread as to when your right to remain silent kicks in.

@OP IANAL but, I believe you are required to show ID when asked to do so by an officer of the law.

elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
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join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in

elwoodblues

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No you are not!

Mashiki
Balking The Enemy's Plans
join:2002-02-04
Woodstock, ON

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said by El Quintron:

I think there may be some confusion in this thread as to when your right to remain silent kicks in.

@OP IANAL but, I believe you are required to show ID when asked to do so by an officer of the law.

Only if you're driving a motor vehicle. The grey area is if you're a passenger, the courts are still humming over whether or not a passenger is required.
peterboro (banned)
Avatars are for posers
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON

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peterboro (banned) to dirtyjeffer0

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Request or order. The Charter kicks in when you receive an order.

Basically comply under "protest" and sue later.

El Quintron
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said by elwoodblues:

No you are not!

I'm not what?
El Quintron

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said by Mashiki:

Only if you're driving a motor vehicle. The grey area is if you're a passenger, the courts are still humming over whether or not a passenger is required.

Duly noted, what if you're not in a motor vehicle (eg: walking down the street)
El Quintron

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said by peterboro:

Basically comply under "protest" and sue later.

I think this is sound advice, but suing is a rich man's game (or at least a man with a lawyer that thinks he's got a case) so what would be your advice for someone who can't afford proper representation?

AppleGuy
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join:2013-09-08
Kitchener, ON

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I don't think there is any easy way to answer that question because even if you know the law backwards, sidewards and upside down, most police officers have very, very, very, very little knowledge of the laws, our charters and basic rights. The courts themselves, the lawyers, attorneys ad judges, don't know the law, very well either.

Now, that doesn't mean you couldn't explain your way out of trouble in the court by showing the judge your rights, the laws and charters the prove your rights, and yes, I have done this myself in a courtroom, point to LAWS that are WRITTEN in our books, that neither my lawyer, the crown or judge had ever seen -- but the judge was able to look it up in one of his books, and shown that the police and crown and my useless lawyer didn't know squat about Canadian law and decorum (and the judge of course).

My point, then, if you're really good at research, case law, finding what you need through our criminal code, then make a stand against police abuse. Otherwise, do as they say, and move on 5 minutes later, since that is all it takes for the cop to figure out you're not worth his/her waste of donut-loss time.
graniterock
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join:2003-03-14
London, ON

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The CCLA webpage that LazMan pointed out would be my starting point.

»ccla.org/resources/know- ··· -rights/

In my day job I have regular (not frequent but enough) contact with the police. Like people in any other profession there are good and bad police or police just having a long day. If your goal is to minimize your police contact and move on with your day I can't emphasize enough the "don't be an a$$ factor".

Certainly there are those that test police patience in an effort to ensure police don't overstep their bounds. There is certainly an important place for this in civil society. I would recommend against this unless you are prepared to deal with the headaches that come along with this. (Longer stops, more questions asked, possible detainment while things are sorted out, possible court involvement).

BigSensFan
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join:2003-07-16
Belle River, ON

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said by AppleGuy:

I don't think there is any easy way to answer that question because even if you know the law backwards, sidewards and upside down, most police officers have very, very, very, very little knowledge of the laws, our charters and basic rights. The courts themselves, the lawyers, attorneys ad judges, don't know the law, very well either.

That is so true... I was stopped a couple years ago on my motorcycle. My 10 year old (at the time) was on the back with all required gear on. The police stopped me because he didn't think she was allowed to be on the bike at her age.

I told him that the only requirements are Helmet, Passenger foot pegs, and she can reach those pegs. (I said it in a nice tone)

He went and checked (radioed someone) and came back a few minutes later and said I was right. I thanked him for his concern and said I understood he was just doing his job.

If I was a jerk about it, he could have ticketed me for having my license plate side mounted beside the rear wheel (by law they are to be visible from 180 degrees)

Moral of the story.. dont be a jerk and 9 times out of 10 they will be nice to you

Mashiki
Balking The Enemy's Plans
join:2002-02-04
Woodstock, ON

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said by El Quintron:

Duly noted, what if you're not in a motor vehicle (eg: walking down the street)

Then you don't have to, only if you're being detained.
NCRGuy
join:2008-03-03
Ottawa, ON

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said by AppleGuy:

I don't think there is any easy way to answer that question because even if you know the law backwards, sidewards and upside down, most police officers have very, very, very, very little knowledge of the laws, our charters and basic rights. The courts themselves, the lawyers, attorneys ad judges, don't know the law, very well either.

Now, that doesn't mean you couldn't explain your way out of trouble in the court by showing the judge your rights, the laws and charters the prove your rights, and yes, I have done this myself in a courtroom, point to LAWS that are WRITTEN in our books, that neither my lawyer, the crown or judge had ever seen -- but the judge was able to look it up in one of his books, and shown that the police and crown and my useless lawyer didn't know squat about Canadian law and decorum (and the judge of course).

My point, then, if you're really good at research, case law, finding what you need through our criminal code, then make a stand against police abuse. Otherwise, do as they say, and move on 5 minutes later, since that is all it takes for the cop to figure out you're not worth his/her waste of donut-loss time.

I would be very curious to hear your tale.

El Quintron
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said by Mashiki:

said by El Quintron:

Duly noted, what if you're not in a motor vehicle (eg: walking down the street)

Then you don't have to, only if you're being detained.

Awesome thanks for getting back to me.
EQ

Mark
I stand with my feet
join:2009-07-11
Canada

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Am I being detained Officer? YES OR NO. If YES, WHY?

If YES and you are being detained, they must comply with your request to know why, and in turn you must comply with the DETENTION. You need not say or do anything else.

If NO, do yourself a favour and be on your merry way.

Another point in which even lawyers do not agree is the obligation to provide your name when simply engaged in the everyday business of living life. Driving a vehicle is NOT being engaged in the everyday business of living life, pucker up and show your License. Walking down the street however, IS. I have made for Canada literature that states BOTH yes you must, and no you do not. Anyone here who can offer clarification for me? I'd appreciate it.

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone

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My understanding is that you don't even have to tell them your name, but they can arrest you as a means to verify your identity if you refuse.

AppleGuy
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join:2013-09-08
Kitchener, ON

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I know you would be, but I rather not say. It wasn't just me though, it was my lawyers secretary (legal assistant) that was able to help me navigate and we found the information need. All I can say that it's a very rarely use law, and that it requires input from the Crown as well. Buts straight up to that point, my lawyer, the crown, the judge, were unaware that that law was even written -- but we were able to tell him the section and paragraph and yep, it was there.

The law is long and convoluted. And there is really no way that most lawyers and attorneys and even judges could even be fully aware of all the laws -- this is why we have legal assistance that can scour the books and not only find dockets but also actual laws that neither lawyer or judge may be away of.

Went through this sort of thing when the ex took me to court over so BS, didn't turn out well for her or her lawyer. That was amazing since I represented myself. The ex 'wanted to drop everything'...good call on her part, only smart thing she did that year.

But I learned such a shit load of stuff, but you really have do devote so much time. With my case with the ex, I devote about 7 hours a day over a period of 60 days or so, just on a very narrow part of the law. But apparently it was enough to 'intimidate' the lawyer she had, and no final outcome as everything was dropped. I would have denied her dropping the case, but since it was out of town, I had no interest in kicking it further down the road.

Again, though, probably no one exists that fully knows all the laws and charters, how they properly should be applied, and when they do apply. This is why you have higher courts overturning a lower court decisions, and then the supreme court overturning a higher courts decision.

My LEGAL advice to people is this: choose the path of least resistance. If you come into contact with police, be polite and agreeable as far as possible. Ask questions. Lots of them, of the officer. If at any point you are detained, ask why. If you are arrested, you absolutely have to do the silent treatment on them unless asking for food, water or a washroom break. Spend the night in jail if you have to, police are trained to lie in order to get you to talk; they'll promise 'release' if you talk. That's a lie. So always make sure you get a lawyer first before talking. This is especially true if you have done nothing wrong. But it is also true if you have done something wrong. Don't incriminate yourself.

Remember; the legal system is also a business model. It does them no good if they can't criminalize people. I once worked with a guy and his son had in and out of jail for 20 years, since the time of him being 18. WHY? Public intoxication. That is NO jail time for that, usually. Judge says "30 days probation, no weapons, no alcohol". He spent 20 years in jail, off and on, because he violated his no drinking. (he was an alcoholic). At some point, though, I do believe he wanted to stay in jail because it was free room and board. I spotted him walking in front of the police station with cases of beers -- so that is what I figured with that man.
AppleGuy

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said by Gone:

My understanding is that you don't even have to tell them your name, but they can arrest you as a means to verify your identity if you refuse.


they can detain you. not arrest. you get arrested, you have to have a charge if i recall correctly.

I think the issue with the 'arrest' is that this is on your file for 2 or 3 years then drops off. While you don't have a "criminal record" you do have a police 'involvement' or something like that. Detaining without arrest doesn't go on anything. No handcuffs in detaining you either usually.

Again, though, if you've done nothing wrong, no reason not to be co-operative. You need to be brushed up very well on the law if you want to start fighting the police, but even then, they'll arrest you and toss you into the cruiser. Not worth it.
Tig
join:2006-06-29
Carrying Place, ON

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said by Gone:

My understanding is that you don't even have to tell them your name, but they can arrest you as a means to verify your identity if you refuse.

I have seen this, although it was long ago outside a bar, with extenuating circumstances. As best I can recall, the stated reason for detention or arrest was failure to identify when requested by an officer. I read up a bit tonight and as I understand it the police need to suspect you of being involved on a crime, at which point failure to identify yourself could become obstruction of an Officer.
Here's link with overview and discussion of basic rights in Canada.
»www.bastionlaw.ca/-rights.asp
Here's another link, although it doesn't entirely resolve the issue.
»www.yourbestdefence.com/ ··· ficer#o3

digitalfutur
Sees More Than Shown
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GTA

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When it comes to producing identification when asked to do by a police officer, following the letter of the law is almost always more time consuming than following its spirit.

The difference between absolutism and common practice, i.e. pragmatism.
PX Eliezer1
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Zubrowka USA

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For a very detailed legal analysis, this law review article summarizes differences between Canada and the USA in regard to police interrogation procedures and individual rights:

[pdf]
»digitalcommons.law.seatt ··· ext=sulr

Gone
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join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

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said by digitalfutur:

When it comes to producing identification when asked to do by a police officer, following the letter of the law is almost always more time consuming than following its spirit.
The difference between absolutism and common practice, i.e. pragmatism.

There is nothing wrong with engaging in a polite conversation with a police officer over the reasons for their requests. It is your right, and if the officer is able to provide justification in a polite and reasonable manner it is only fair that you act reasonable with them in return. They have a job to do like anyone else, and if after a certain level of rapport is built I see nothing wrong with making their job that much easier by not giving them a hard time.

It's the ones who refuse to engage or explain that you need to watch out for. Not only will these guys make your life a living hell no matter what you do or how you do it, but they are also the ones who give two shits about legal rights and have no problem trampling on them. These are the ones you need to stand up against, but doing so to make a point will probably end up ruining your day.

Ian1
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join:2002-06-18
ON

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said by dirtyjeffer0:

i would recommend complying with their requests,

Long and US-centric, but lists many, many excellent reasons why you should NEVER talk to police if you can avoid it, without an attorney present (or even then). Short answer being it will never help you.

»www.youtube.com/watch?v= ··· kI4t7nuc

urbanriot
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join:2004-10-18
Canada

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said by dirtyjeffer0:

i would recommend complying with their requests, and if you disagree with something, go through the appropriate channels afterwards..."walking away" from police is not likely to end well for you.

Yep, this is a universal geographical standard. If a member of law enforcement engages you, you give him the interaction he's looking for.

I always hear these stories or witness these know-it-all nerds take a beating because they decided they'd try and out maneuver an officer with some blather about his rights when all the cop was looking for was a few answers to a few questions.

I'd say it's never in anyone's best interests to 'walk away' from a police officer.

Ian1
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ON

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Not sure if this info is applicable Canada-wide or not.

»www.legalinfo.org/crimin ··· ice.html
peterboro (banned)
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Peterborough, ON

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said by urbanriot:

I always hear these stories or witness these know-it-all nerds take a beating because they decided they'd try and out maneuver an officer with some blather about his rights when all the cop was looking for was a few answers to a few questions.

With the proliferation of cell phones that is now a game of Russian Roulette for police.
said by urbanriot:

I'd say it's never in anyone's best interests to 'walk away' from a police officer.

I'd say it's never in ones interest to be near a cop unless you are a victim or selling donuts.
mr weather
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join:2002-02-27
Mississauga, ON

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This thread made me want to leave this little video below

»youtu.be/uj0mtxXEGE8