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battleop
join:2005-09-28
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battleop

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[Electrical] Buying a welder

I want to teach my self how to do stuff like this:

»www.pinterest.com/annien ··· rojects/

I don't know much about elders but I know I want some sort of wire welder. I've been looking at a couple that are "110 volt 100 amp" welders. Does this rating mean I need a 100 amp, 110v outlet to run he welder?

Any suggestions for a decent welder for this task? One thing to throw out there is that I don't buy crap brand tools so I'll spend a little extra for a quality tool that will last.
PrntRhd
Premium Member
join:2004-11-03
Fairfield, CA

2 edits

PrntRhd

Premium Member

Basically no, the ratings refer to the output amperage. Electric welders use a transformer to change voltages/amperage.

I like Lincoln Electric for welders.
example:
»www.lincolnelectric.com/ ··· ctric%29

But for a little more, a 220 volt unit is superior:
»www.homedepot.com/p/Linc ··· ications

robbin
Mod
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX

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Mod

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I bought a Miller Millermatic 130 XP (130 amp output) a number of years ago and have been very happy with it. It runs on a regular 15 amp circuit. Nice welder but slightly underpowered.

nunya
LXI 483
MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO

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MVM

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You'll be sorely disappointed in a 120V welder if you want to weld anything over 3/16" reliably.
Stick with name brands (Lincoln, Miller, Hobart).

igotaduty
@optonline.net

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Anon

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Your not gona like the price. A great welder is the millermatic 200... yes it's a 80's welder... find it cheap (no more than $500)

Snap on last I knew had the MM250SL on promo $2750 I think... the smaller one I think was on promo too. (this is likely overkill for what your linking)

Big thing to look at with a welder is the duty cycle...

Say you got a 200amp welder at 60% cycle that means 4 min of every 10 min you must let it cool off at 200amp.

Bigger is better in welders... you can always turn down the power... you can't turn it up once your past the max size...

So long as your doing quick welds... no big deal... however... if you plan to run beads... it will get very annoying very fast. We have a hobart 120volt welder here it's too small, overheats and just pretty much stops welding (weld gets all bubbly and won't burn in we got the snap on 250 on trial right now that's how I know it was on promo).

A price range would be a good thing to give us.

LazMan
Premium Member
join:2003-03-26
Beverly Hills, CA

1 recommendation

LazMan to battleop

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For purely 'art' and decorative work, a 120v unit will likely be fine... I've got a Lincoln Weld-Pak machine from Home Depot, that I used to use when I raced, and kept for doing repairs and small stuff - it runs off at 120v 20a circuit; works great for waft I need...

gillespie
Premium Member
join:2001-11-28
USA

gillespie

Premium Member

I have the same one, great little flux core welder. Perfect for home use.

shdesigns
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Stone Mountain, GA
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3 recommendations

shdesigns to battleop

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On 120V, anything under 130 amp is usually junk and have a poor duty cycle and sloppy wire feeder.

Any welder will require a dedicated outlet. I had a Clarke 130A on a dedicated 20A outlet. It still tripped the breaker at times. It was a good welder, never tripped on overheat. It was only good up to 1/8" on gas (3/16 gasless.) I had a 20A/12GA 25' extension that was minimal for use on full power. I still saw a bit of drop in output with it.

As you will need a dedicated outlet wired up anyway; going 240V is no big deal. A 120V MIG will work on a regular outlet only for thin sheet metal (auto bodywork.)

Gasless wire is expensive and messy. A gas setup takes considerable investment buying a bottle.

Miller, Hobart, HTP and Lincoln are good brands. The made-in-China ebay-specials are great door stops and some will never even do a decent weld.

I started on a 120V Clarke MIG and it worked fine. However I wanted more capability and later got two large welders; a big MIG and an arc/TIG welder. Both over 30-years old but will run circles around anything made today as far as duty cycle (MIG is 250A at 100%.)

If I started again, I'd probably get a 130A small MIG and a decent arc welder. For heavier stuff (3/32 and up), an arc welder is easy to set up; basically just grab a rod and go. No, wire feeder and gas to set up. I like the simplicity of it. I now use my MIG only on thin steel anyway. Craigs list have old arc welders often for $100 or so. I see Lincoln tombstone, Century and Craftsman arc welders go cheap. The old stuff has copper windings (not aluminum) and are big, simple beasts. They will run circles over the budget arc welders you will pay more for new. As you get over 130A on MIG, it gets expensive new.

Also consider portability. A larger MIG or arc welder will be tied to just one outlet. So you will need to be able to bring the work to it.

I also have an Oxy/Propane setup for brazing. That is real useful also (also great for heating stuck bolts/nuts up.) I have an acetylene tank but never filled it as it is risky to use/store safely.

Also budget a decent helmet (auto darkening is nice) gauntlets, and protective clothing. Welding produces sparks, molten spatter and huge amounts of UV. I have done quick jobs in just a T-shirt only to find I get a sunburn.

I have a set of web pages on my welders here: »shdesigns.org/Welding/in ··· ex.shtml I have two beasts that together sit 6' high and weigh 1200 lbs or so. A 240V 50A outlet is just enough to run these for my uses.

What you want to weld makes a difference. Light, decorative stuff in steel and a small MIG will do. Heavier structural stuff and an arc welder is more cost effective. Aluminum is best done with TIG.

Welding is real nice to have; I'm amazed how often i have used it for repairs. Once into it, I wanted more and now have arc, MIG, TIG and a portable welder.

cableties
Premium Member
join:2005-01-27

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cableties to battleop

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Miller's MultiMatic 200 is $1800-$2200
Plus you will need gas (tank of Argon) $?
And wire brushes (if doing stainless, you need stainless steel brush..)
And Tig option if you want to do stainless and thin gauge metals
Grinder (bench type and hand model)
It does 120V Single or 220V single phase.
( I prefer Miller as I am learning on it. But Lincoln has a cheap buzz box (stick) if you want that).

And then you might want either a plasma cutter or Oxy-Cet torch kit. I'd go with plasma cutter to make the intricate silhouettes, etc...

I am in a welding course right now and love it. Actually, I've had 30hr basic welding (Stick- SMAW, Mig- GMAW) and now learning Tig (GTAW) and plasma cutting.

Stick- you can weld rusty metals and even under water (if certified).
Mig- enough wire and you can weld forever!
Tig- Make a beautiful welded stainless steel bumper, or bike, or... chemical pipes, cages,...

»store.cyberweld.com/mimu ··· elw.html

BTW, you should get the optional Tig kit and spoolmate. Seriously.

Update: FIRST, you need good helmet, gloves, spark-proof clothes, steel toe boots, eyeprotection, ear protection... and fire extinguisher, and place to weld that won't burn your house down!

I also recommend the you tube channel weldingtipsandtricks. Jody is amazing welder! Sells Tig finger and DVDs on welding...
LittleBill
join:2013-05-24

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wow,

buy the HF welder you were looking at for 100 bucks. see if you even like the hobby before spending 5 grand.

i have built entire cars with 150 dollar welder from sears. it just takes longer

good luck!

Zorack
join:2001-12-14
Fayetteville, WV

Zorack

Member

I would never buy a Harbor Freight welder,those things are not worth it to buy. I have used a Miller Bobcat 250,a Millermatic 140,just get the best brand name(Lincoln or Miller)welder that you can afford to buy and take your time learning to weld correctly...
LittleBill
join:2013-05-24

LittleBill

Member

the only thing gain by the name brand is longer duty cycle and potentially thicker metal, neither of which are needed for a guy just seeing if he likes it

DarkHelmet
join:2014-02-21

DarkHelmet

Member

said by LittleBill:

the only thing gain by the name brand is longer duty cycle and potentially thicker metal, neither of which are needed for a guy just seeing if he likes it

Not to mention the HF unit has over 200 reviews and a 4 star rating which says a lot about the unit.

battleop
join:2005-09-28
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battleop to Zorack

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to Zorack
"I would never buy a Harbor Freight welder"

I wouldn't by anything from there or Northern Tool. They are just a cheap ass clearing house of tools from China for people who are usually cheap asses.

I'll spend the money on a Bosch Jig saw that's lasted me for the last 20 years before I'll buy their $20 POS house brand junk that will be lucky to last me a week.

shdesigns
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shdesigns to LittleBill

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to LittleBill
said by LittleBill:

the only thing gain by the name brand is longer duty cycle and potentially thicker metal, neither of which are needed for a guy just seeing if he likes it

There is more to it than that. A name brand welder will have a better torch, parts availability, a much more accurate wire speed control and a smoother wire feeder. Also parts and service will be available.

The biggest thing with cheap MIGs is the wire feeder does not keep a constant wire feed speed. Many end up giving up as they can not get anything better than bird-poop welds out of them.

I have seen the HF units, they are not terrible, but not very good either.

battleop
join:2005-09-28
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battleop to igotaduty

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I would say 99% of what I plan on using this for are going to mostly be Tack Welds. If I ever get to where I'm going to run long beads I'll look for something that suited for that.
battleop

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What you are describing is probably super over kill for what I'm wanting to do. I'm just looking to make little yard art sculptures out of old rusty odds and ends. Nothing structural or anything that someone's life would depend on. Just some tack welds here and there.
LittleBill
join:2013-05-24

LittleBill to battleop

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said by battleop:

"I would never buy a Harbor Freight welder"

I wouldn't by anything from there or Northern Tool. They are just a cheap ass clearing house of tools from China for people who are usually cheap asses.

I'll spend the money on a Bosch Jig saw that's lasted me for the last 20 years before I'll buy their $20 POS house brand junk that will be lucky to last me a week.

comments like this are stupid. i have power tools from harbor that have hundreds of hours on them and work fine.

i have grinders from them that have gone through 100+ discs

if you treat your stuff right, it lasts period.

im not saying some stuff isn't junk, but to classify the entire place as junk just show ignorance

Zorack
join:2001-12-14
Fayetteville, WV

Zorack

Member

My comments are not stupid. and neither are battleops....

DarkHelmet
join:2014-02-21

DarkHelmet to LittleBill

Member

to LittleBill
said by LittleBill:

said by battleop:

"I would never buy a Harbor Freight welder"

I wouldn't by anything from there or Northern Tool. They are just a cheap ass clearing house of tools from China for people who are usually cheap asses.

I'll spend the money on a Bosch Jig saw that's lasted me for the last 20 years before I'll buy their $20 POS house brand junk that will be lucky to last me a week.

comments like this are stupid. i have power tools from harbor that have hundreds of hours on them and work fine.

i have grinders from them that have gone through 100+ discs

if you treat your stuff right, it lasts period.

im not saying some stuff isn't junk, but to classify the entire place as junk just show ignorance

I've had the same experience. I bought a HF pneumatic stapler and put 25,000 staples though it so far. I've used a dozen discs on the angle grinder. That said I went with name brand stuff for my miter saw, reciprocating saw, etc. I don't know about a HF welder but based on the reviews it seems perfectly fine. I'd buy it based on that.

cableties
Premium Member
join:2005-01-27

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If you are serious, the Miller stuff is way to go.
But I agree, if you are doing the art stuff, a HF "buzz" box for stick welding (you can find them for $200 or less) is perfect to start.
But GET a good helmet (autodarkening) because striking the arc is hardest with a crappy visor/shield.
And a you will need the chipping hammer (for the slag) a wire brush.
You can had a decent setup (Northern Tool, Harbor Freight...) for $300.
LittleBill
join:2013-05-24

1 edit

LittleBill to DarkHelmet

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to DarkHelmet
said by DarkHelmet:

said by LittleBill:

said by battleop:

"I would never buy a Harbor Freight welder"

I wouldn't by anything from there or Northern Tool. They are just a cheap ass clearing house of tools from China for people who are usually cheap asses.

I'll spend the money on a Bosch Jig saw that's lasted me for the last 20 years before I'll buy their $20 POS house brand junk that will be lucky to last me a week.

comments like this are stupid. i have power tools from harbor that have hundreds of hours on them and work fine.

i have grinders from them that have gone through 100+ discs

if you treat your stuff right, it lasts period.

im not saying some stuff isn't junk, but to classify the entire place as junk just show ignorance

I've had the same experience. I bought a HF pneumatic stapler and put 25,000 staples though it so far. I've used a dozen discs on the angle grinder. That said I went with name brand stuff for my miter saw, reciprocating saw, etc. I don't know about a HF welder but based on the reviews it seems perfectly fine. I'd buy it based on that.

i have a significant amount of pneumatic tools from HF, other then them needing a bit more oil then other brands, not a single one has broken.

not to mention my air compressors from HF, which have been run well over their limits for years
LittleBill

LittleBill to battleop

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the part that always kills me is 2 fold.

you get a guy, who has never done this before, no experience nothing, doesn't even know if he is going to like it, then get he gets told to buy stuff as if it was his main paying job, 4k of welding crap to make art? seriously?

everybody always says well if i bought good the first time it would have saved money.

this of course is true IF you found the exact model you liked from the beginning.

all i know is i have gotten into a ton of hobby's where i bought something cheap.learned what i liked and didn't like and then if i decided it was something i was going to pursue, research the hobby to get what will fit me best.

welding in and of itself is an art, each person has to find out what works for them before deciding what options they actually need vs want vs price

remember the quality of the work is based on the person not the tools.. tools just make the job easier

DarkHelmet
join:2014-02-21

DarkHelmet

Member

said by LittleBill:

remember the quality of the work is based on the person not the tools.. tools just make the job easier

That's very true. I made a bathroom cabinet with a reciprocating saw. No one knows I sanded out the rough edges. Would a table saw or circular saw or miter saw have been better? Sure but I didn't need them at the time so buying them for a single job was a waste of money. Skill is always king.

cableties
Premium Member
join:2005-01-27

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Sometimes you get what you pay for.

Get a lincoln stick welder. Find a welding supply house. Get some sticks to try and scrap metal. DO get a good helmet (dimmables start around $50...). Get a chipper hammer and wire brush. I also recommend a fire extinguisher (sparks...) and not to weld near any thing flammable or in a small garage (under living space). You want some ventilation too.

Tips on rods...
»www.kevincaron.com/video ··· p?id=164
tomupnorth
join:2005-01-14
UpperMidwest

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I picked-up a cheap HF wire feed welder a few years ago, knowing nothing about welding except having watched a friend with his do a project for me, and have had a blast with it, doing not just little stuff but a whole garden fence-with-overhead-shade-cloth and a metal structure for our pool equipment room.

If this one doesn't make you happy you can get rid of it and buy an expensive welder if you want:

»www.harborfreight.com/90 ··· 494.html

Mine is actually a 240VAC one, an older model but similar to this:

»www.harborfreight.com/17 ··· 885.html

I would run this welder outside anywhere using my portable generator. Now I also have a 240VAC outlet in my workshop.

Yes I'm still using my POS HF welder--it's worked perfectly for years...

shdesigns
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shdesigns

Premium Member

said by tomupnorth:

If this one doesn't make you happy you can get rid of it and buy an expensive welder if you want:

»www.harborfreight.com/90 ··· 494.html

Mine is actually a 240VAC one, an older model but similar to this:

»www.harborfreight.com/17 ··· 885.html

The 151 (110amp) and 170 amp ones are not bad. The 90 amp is near useless with poor wire feed control.

One time I was there, they had the 151 Dual MIG for $119. I should have picked one up; I did not realize they had discontinued them. The newer ones thay have are the same junk you can get on ebay.
Hellrazor
Bah Humbug
join:2002-02-02
Abyss, PA

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Millermatic 140 is probably the best 120V MIG you can buy. We have one at work and my maint crew love it. Bad part is it is a bit over $1000 for the unit, cart and tank.

Zorack
join:2001-12-14
Fayetteville, WV

Zorack

Member

+1 for that...

volter
@comcast.net

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to answer one of your original questions:

the nameplate or specifications will say how many amps the welder draws from the ac line. normally they draw less than 20 amperes, since that's often the size for garage wiring/outlets.

the 100 amps you mentioned is 100 amps dc.

little buzzbox welders are just transformers and rectifiers.
the transformer changes the 120 volts ac into 20 - 60 volts ac, the rectifier changes that to dc.
so a transformer making 30 out of 120 is 1/5x reduction in voltage, so the amperes is 1/5x decrease, from 100 amps at the welding terminals to 20 amps pulled from the wall.

-----
another option not mentioned, for trials, is just to use two car batteries in series to get you that 24 volts at 100+ amps. a setup like that is capable of welding thicker material than the small wirefeeders.

for non critical welds, disregard the fancy advice, and just use most any rod you can find. thinner ones work better for light work. metal coat hangers work ok. or cut some slivers of the same material that you are welding together. home depot used to sell a rod-holderclamp part alone for under $20.

==
other tools much useful: any right angle grinder with a diamond blade. the diamond blades last way longer than the carborundum cutoff wheels, though the do work slower and noisier. and a
"scotchbrite" wheel for your bench grinder or drill.

for aluminum or stainless, you need a welder or attachment that adds high frequency ac to the normal welding voltage. normally that's built in to a pro welder that also uses a tungsten needle surrounded by argon gas flow.

if you have a stainless steel sheet, you can make a welding table with an electrical connection to the tabletop, so the table is always grounded, and you just put the material on the table without having to connect a ground wire to it.