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adam_s

@teksavvy.com

Cannot upgrade to 150/10 service??!

I was considering upgrading to the 150/10 cable service. It is available in my area.

However, one thing that shocked me is it seems my modem (SB6120), *that I bought from Teksavvy* is not on the "approved" list.

Please tell me this is a mistake.
I purchased a DOCSIS 3 modem (at the time, they were also selling a DOCSIS 2 model) with the expectation that it would be "future proof" going forward.



TypeS

join:2012-12-17
London, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable

When they were selling it, speeds were what, 12/1, 24/1 and 32/2?

It was future proof, you can get 25/2, 35/3, 45/4, but Rogers had no tiers between those and 150/10. 150/10 requires more channels to bond with to ensure congestion doesn't occur.

Nothing is future proof forever.



HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·TekSavvy Cable

1 recommendation

reply to adam_s

The modem is approved, except not for 150/10 speeds due to Rogers restrictions. These restrictions are imposed on all TPIA providers like TekSavvy.

The modem is Docsis 3.0, but it only supports a 4x4 channel bonding configuration. Your modem is allowed up to speeds of 45/4. As of now, Rogers only allows 8x4 bonding modems for 150/10.

Mind you this is also changing very soon as well, Rogers will be imposing even more restrictions on which modems can get the new upgraded tiers, and your SB6120 may not even be allowed to get 45meg package. Rumors are that Rogers will require a new type of modem that is 24x8 channel bonding capable for new tiers, and there isnt any indication what packages 4x4 and 8x4 modems will be allowed on.

My advice is do not purchase any modems now if you want to upgrade your speed, but wait until the modem situation is clarified.
--



adam_s

@teksavvy.com
reply to TypeS

said by TypeS:

When they were selling it, speeds were what, 12/1, 24/1 and 32/2?

It was future proof, you can get 25/2, 35/3, 45/4, but Rogers had no tiers between those and 150/10. 150/10 requires more channels to bond with to ensure congestion doesn't occur.

Nothing is future proof forever.

Nothing is future proof forever. Sure, and when DOCSIS 4 comes out, I expect that my DOCSIS 3 modem won't be compatible. But the modems that are compatible are still DOCSIS 3. My modem is capable of these speeds, to my understanding.


adam_s

@teksavvy.com
reply to HiVolt

said by HiVolt:

The modem is approved, except not for 150/10 speeds due to Rogers restrictions. These restrictions are imposed on all TPIA providers like TekSavvy.

The modem is Docsis 3.0, but it only supports a 4x4 channel bonding configuration. Your modem is allowed up to speeds of 45/4. As of now, Rogers only allows 8x4 bonding modems for 150/10.

Mind you this is also changing very soon as well, Rogers will be imposing even more restrictions on which modems can get the new upgraded tiers, and your SB6120 may not even be allowed to get 45meg package. Rumors are that Rogers will require a new type of modem that is 24x8 channel bonding capable for new tiers, and there isnt any indication what packages 4x4 and 8x4 modems will be allowed on.

My advice is do not purchase any modems now if you want to upgrade your speed, but wait until the modem situation is clarified.

This forced obsolescence is bullshit.
Does Teksavvy at least have a trade-in program? My current modem becomes nothing more than an expensive paper weight if not.

This is why renting isn't such a bad idea.. you never have to worry about crap!

HMM.. Rogers now has 150/15 (unlimited) for $110.99/mo. Maybe time to switch..


mlerner
Premium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON
kudos:5
reply to adam_s

said by adam_s :

said by TypeS:

When they were selling it, speeds were what, 12/1, 24/1 and 32/2?

It was future proof, you can get 25/2, 35/3, 45/4, but Rogers had no tiers between those and 150/10. 150/10 requires more channels to bond with to ensure congestion doesn't occur.

Nothing is future proof forever.

Nothing is future proof forever. Sure, and when DOCSIS 4 comes out, I expect that my DOCSIS 3 modem won't be compatible. But the modems that are compatible are still DOCSIS 3. My modem is capable of these speeds, to my understanding.

With the higher speeds, modem channel requirements are changing. The 6120 is only 4x4 channel bonding capable. Rogers I believe requires an 8x4 modem for that tier.

With the new TPIA tiers going into effect (60/10-250/20) they will require minimum 8x4 for all new tiers and the new 250/20 tier requiring a 24x8 modem which is not yet available for TPIA.

Rogers sets the requirements as it is their network and it is sometimes necessary to maintain efficiency, it will also improve network performance for the end user, this has been proven with the deployment of the 150/10 tier. DOCSIS2 is also being discontinued with the new speeds as is what usually happens every 5 years.

yyzlhr

join:2012-09-03
Scarborough, ON
kudos:4
reply to adam_s

8x4 is now the minimum on the Rogers side. Wouldn't be surprised if they require this on TPIA as well.

Also it's extremely risky and costly for TPIAs who offer a prepaid service to run a rental program.



Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to adam_s

said by adam_s :

This forced obsolescence is bullshit.

It's not forced obsolescence. 4x4 modems hitting 150 meg would completely saturate the node for everybody else (4 channels will only do ~152 meg). That's simply not practical.
--
Latest version of CapSavvy systray usage checker: »CapSavvy v4.3 released!


rback

@teksavvy.com
reply to adam_s

When did you buy the SB6120. When I joined Teksavvy 3 years ago they were selling the SB6120 but I didn't buy one. The 8 channel Motorola SB6180 or the SBG6580 were already available. I'm glad I bought the 8 channel Motorola. I can still get 150/10 if I want. Even if you buy a so called approved modem your basically on your own if you want the firmware upgraded anyways. Rogers will rarely push firmware to TPIA providers. Best to buy the latest available. It's funny because Teksavvy just approved the SBG6580 that I've been using for 3 years a few months ago and the model is over 4 years old. If Rogers doesn't want 4 channel modems on their network they should have officially allowed the 8 channel Motorolas a long time ago.


yyzlhr

join:2012-09-03
Scarborough, ON
kudos:4

24 channel modems didn't exist "a long time ago". 8 Channel was the top of the line at that time.



SimplePanda
Go Habs Go
Premium
join:2003-09-22
Toronto, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to adam_s

Sigh.

Another day, another "Rogers won't allow my basically obsolete 4 channel modem on their network at the highest possible speeds even though it can technical handle it because who cares about everyone else on my node I demand my $99 investment be a good one forever" thread.

Not like this isn't discussed ad nauseum.



adam_s

@teksavvy.com
reply to rback

said by rback :

When did you buy the SB6120. When I joined Teksavvy 3 years ago they were selling the SB6120 but I didn't buy one. The 8 channel Motorola SB6180 or the SBG6580 were already available. I'm glad I bought the 8 channel Motorola. I can still get 150/10 if I want. Even if you buy a so called approved modem your basically on your own if you want the firmware upgraded anyways. Rogers will rarely push firmware to TPIA providers. Best to buy the latest available. It's funny because Teksavvy just approved the SBG6580 that I've been using for 3 years a few months ago and the model is over 4 years old. If Rogers doesn't want 4 channel modems on their network they should have officially allowed the 8 channel Motorolas a long time ago.

Almost exactly 3 years ago (a couple weeks off, technically). I don't recall exactly what the options were at the time, (I thought there was only two?) but I was strongly advised not to get the DOCSIS 2 one, even though it was cheaper, because it would limit upgradability.


adam_s

@teksavvy.com
reply to SimplePanda

said by SimplePanda:

Sigh.

Another day, another "Rogers won't allow my basically obsolete 4 channel modem on their network at the highest possible speeds even though it can technical handle it because who cares about everyone else on my node I demand my $99 investment be a good one forever" thread.

Not like this isn't discussed ad nauseum.

The modem is capable of 150/10 speeds, but Teksavvy/Rogers won't allow it. That's forced obsolescence.

And you can't lay all of the blame on Rogers.. some of it (debatable how much) falls to Teksavvy, in that they *force* you to buy the modem. If it was a rental, you could trade it in for a newer model at no extra charge.


Viral

join:2011-09-10
Windsor, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL

Looks like you got into the Technical Specifications manual.
I'd do some reading on how the relationship works between TPIA and Incumbents before continuing this thread.



Mobil

join:2011-01-02
reply to adam_s

I haven't logged onto here in a very long time but after reading your stupid, nonsense, threat, I just had to log on and shut you down, hard.

So you claim that renting modems are better investment than buying one, yet you failed to do basic math. That modem you have was purchased for 120 dollars I think?
The modem rental from rogers is 8-12 dollars depending on what you want to get

You got 3 years out of your modem....

So that's 8 dollars a month X 12 months in a year x 3 years. $288.

You're a smart cookie there champ.

It is time for you to switch. Gullible customers is what rogers lives on.


afterburn999

join:2010-09-12
Scarborough, ON
reply to adam_s

So if I switched to a 150/10 tier what modem should I be choosing? I'd want to run it in Bridge mode with my own router.


Dial_a_Tech

join:2013-01-22
Windsor, ON
kudos:1
reply to Mobil

OP is going to need this




mlerner
Premium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON
kudos:5
reply to adam_s

said by adam_s :

some of it (debatable how much) falls to Teksavvy, in that they *force* you to buy the modem. If it was a rental, you could trade it in for a newer model at no extra charge.

Yeah ok so TekSavvy should absorb all of the costs even though they had nothing to do with the changes in modem requirements. Good luck finding a TPIA provider who will.

InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5
reply to adam_s

said by adam_s :

The modem is capable of 150/10 speeds, but Teksavvy/Rogers won't allow it.

While it may be THEORETICALLY possible to do 150Mbps on a quad-channel modem, in practice you would never reach anywhere near this speed because those QAMs are shared with the 100 or so subscribers on your node.

So, Rogers allowing the 150Mbps profile on quad-channel modems would simply cause people to go from bitching about Rogers not allowing it to people bitching about "not getting the speed they paid for."


Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to adam_s

Yeah, screwing over every other person on your node just so that you can use YOUR obsolete modem at full speed? Good on Rogers for stopping you from pulling that sort of crap.
--
Latest version of CapSavvy systray usage checker: »CapSavvy v4.3 released!



SimplePanda
Go Habs Go
Premium
join:2003-09-22
Toronto, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to adam_s

said by adam_s :

said by SimplePanda:

Sigh.

Another day, another "Rogers won't allow my basically obsolete 4 channel modem on their network at the highest possible speeds even though it can technical handle it because who cares about everyone else on my node I demand my $99 investment be a good one forever" thread.

Not like this isn't discussed ad nauseum.

The modem is capable of 150/10 speeds, but Teksavvy/Rogers won't allow it. That's forced obsolescence.

And you can't lay all of the blame on Rogers.. some of it (debatable how much) falls to Teksavvy, in that they *force* you to buy the modem. If it was a rental, you could trade it in for a newer model at no extra charge.

The modem is -barely- capable of 150/10 speeds; just over 160Mbps down in ideal circumstances.

And if they let you and everyone else with a 4 channel dinosaur have 150Mbps you'd all be back here complaining about how you never get anywhere close to that speed during peak hours as you all cram the the node on each other.

4 channel modems can't get 150 Mbps service. This is a good thing, not a bad thing.

As for rentals: what's the point? It's a $99 device. If they charged you $8 a month it'd be paid off in just over 12 months and then you'd be paying for nothing after that. Instead you could just buy a $99 modem every couple years (as you say you already got three out of your model-T) as you upgrade tiers.

yyzlhr

join:2012-09-03
Scarborough, ON
kudos:4
reply to afterburn999

said by afterburn999:

So if I switched to a 150/10 tier what modem should I be choosing? I'd want to run it in Bridge mode with my own router.

Unless you need to switch right now I'd hold off. Rogers now requires 24 channel modems for their higher tiers. TPIAs don't have one certified yet so I wouldn't run out any buy any equipment just yet.


Teddy Boom
k kudos Received
Premium
join:2007-01-29
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
reply to adam_s

said by adam_s :

Almost exactly 3 years ago (a couple weeks off, technically). I don't recall exactly what the options were at the time, (I thought there was only two?)

Yes, at that time there were only the two options, and you made the right choice.

To the best of my understanding, a 4x4 modem should be allowed on services upto something in the 60-80mbit/s download range. Certainly a 4x4 modem on 150mbit/s down is a very bad idea.

The real issue with modems and approvals though, is the new tiers coming next month:
»Re: New Rogers Internet Speeds
It is outrageous. 10/1 would be perfect on 1x1 Docsis 2 modems, and any of the packages up to 60/10 would work perfectly on 4x4 Docsis 3 modems.

It would be great if CNOC could at least press for 4x4 modems on 10/1 and 30/5. It is not a big ask--except that asking for anything at all from Rogers is a big ask.
So, there is definitely a problem, there is definitely forced obsolescence going on, but the restriction you are complaining about is not unreasonable.
--
electronicsguru.ca

BoogaBooga

join:2004-06-12
Canada
Reviews:
·VMedia
·TekSavvy Cable

1 edit
reply to adam_s

It is a bit annoying that the 4x4 modems only really lasted ~3 years. I was expecting at least 5. These things were pretty pricy.

Hopefully this won't be the case with the new modems. The amount of testing required is expensive. IMO modems in general are way to expensive these days! It's almost a case of ISP lock-in.



SimplePanda
Go Habs Go
Premium
join:2003-09-22
Toronto, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL

said by BoogaBooga:

It is a bit annoying that the 4x4 modems only really lasted ~3 years. I was expecting at least 5. These things were pretty pricy.

Hopefully this won't be the case with the new modems. The amount of testing required is expensive. IMO modems in general are way to expensive these days! It's almost a case of ISP lock-in.

IIRC USR Sportsters, the "Motorola Cable Modem" of it's day, were around $149. Modems seem to be getting cheaper, really ($99 for an 8x4, 320Mbps capable DOCSIS device).

And that's nothing compared to my blessed Courier 56k (started as X2, then upgraded to v.90 when our Total Control rack got upgraded). Cost me $400. It was the greatest modem analog modem ever made, but still... you could get 4 cable modems for what it cost.


oceros

join:2013-07-20
St Thomas, ON
Reviews:
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to adam_s

said by adam_s :

Almost exactly 3 years ago (a couple weeks off, technically). I don't recall exactly what the options were at the time, (I thought there was only two?) but I was strongly advised not to get the DOCSIS 2 one, even though it was cheaper, because it would limit upgradability.

I'm sure Teksavvy would be happy to offer you a one time "trade in" option.

Just send them the remaining amount you would have paid into a rental - something around $200, and they will send you a 8x4 modem "free of charge."