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PAC AMEX
@rogers.com

PAC AMEX

Anon

AMEX continuing to charge on closed account

I cancelled an amex card in March. They posted a charge to it in April. I called to ask them not to allow any more charges on the cancelled closed account. Customer service told me they would continue to charge the account and the merchant was the only one who could stop future charges and i should call the mechant and ask them to stop charging the account. They would only stop if the merchant told them too. I have escalated to a supervisor. In the meantime i will be moving all my pre authorized payments to visa as they are not in the habit of charging closed accounts. I asked them to dispute charge stating account closed. \Amex refused stating they could only dispute if I provided proof it was a double payment. I feel very betrayed. If cancelling an acount does not protect you from future charges what does? Could i be paying the merchant forever? Must I choose between my credit score and being cheated? Wish me luck.

CylonRed
MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County

CylonRed

MVM

Have you talk to the merchant yet???
PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

PX Eliezer1

Premium Member

I wonder if he has a long-term obligation to the merchant (a contract etc).

If not, then he can simply dispute the charge each time. Amex is good about disputes, pretty pro-customer.

If there is some reason that he cannot file a dispute, then perhaps the merchant does indeed have "right" on his side.

DataDoc
My avatar looks like me, if I was 2D.
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Hedgesville, WV
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I had a Sunoco card that had been cancelled for 2 years suddenly send me a statement showing a charge to it. This was about 12-14 years ago and the rep said "it came in on the Internet and we have no way to stop it." I disputed the charge and got a call from the merchant, who apologized for the erroneous charge. Took 3 more months before I could get the card killed again and stop the statements.

I cancelled a card with Chase that got a charge which they pushed onto my new account after a year being cancelled. The rep there mentioned that an account is never really cancelled, just marked inactive. Until a charge comes in.

Thinkdiff
MVM,
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY

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This is done so people can't be deadbeats, sign up for services/contracts, and then cancel the card a month later to avoid payment. Not saying you did that.. just explaining why it happens and why people who do that ruin everything for the rest of us.

And it kind of makes sense. Why should a merchant take AMEX for a recurring payment if the customer can just cancel the card at any time and skip out on the payments.

Have you tried calling the merchant to cancel the charges? In AMEX's eyes, this is not a charge that should be reversed by them.

hortnut
Huh?
join:2005-09-25
PDX Metro

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I had one single fraudulent charge [$42.54] caught by "Verified by Visa" who contacted me to verify. It was for some dating site I had never heard of. They immediately put a hold/freeze on my Credit Card issued by my Credit Union.

Next morning, canceled card and Credit Union started the process of issuing a new one. In the meantime, was busy and forgot the date and several automatic deductions bounced. One was my Insurance, Netflix and some others. The card and old number was dead.

I then made other arrangements to have these companies paid with another account.

I was not part of the Target thing, but I had used that Card online at Costco, Amazon, Best Buy, Sears and a couple of others. I had used it at POS's at Safeway, Albertson's and Fred Meyer/Kroger. It never left my hand or sight.

My Credit Union uses Verified by Visa and this is not the first time they have contacted me, but the other times the charges were legitimate and made by me.

Fraud Dept
@commspeed.net

Fraud Dept

Anon

May I suggest you call Amex's fraud department. Your problem will end and a new card issued. When you call the number on the card, do not say you wish to dispute a charge. Just ask for the fraud department and they will handle it from then on.

TheTechGuru
join:2004-03-25
TEXAS

TheTechGuru

Member

said by Fraud Dept :

May I suggest you call Amex's fraud department. Your problem will end and a new card issued. When you call the number on the card, do not say you wish to dispute a charge. Just ask for the fraud department and they will handle it from then on.

Ya, just call and tell them you've lost the card at a mall, they'll have to issue a new number.

Thinkdiff
MVM,
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY

Thinkdiff

MVM,

Credit card companies are not stupid, and their fraud systems are pretty advanced. Getting a new card with a new number does not guarantee the old number can never be charged again.

Example: I signed up for a 1 year monthly payment plan with "company A" on my AMEX. 7-months into it, my card number was stolen by a compromised POS machine. AMEX issued a new card and number, but I forgot to change the number on file with "company A". Sure enough, on months 8-12, that payment still showed up just fine on my bill. The only time I realized I never updated the card was when I went back to sign up for another year and they asked if my card still ended in the now-cancelled numbers.

The problem the OP will likely have is that he cannot (without lying) report the charges as fraudulent or he would've done that already. With a prior record of "accepted" charges from the merchant on that card number, AMEX will continue to allow charges to go through. Only the merchant can resolve this problem unless they are charging the card without authorization to do so, which is exactly what AMEX told the OP.

hortnut
Huh?
join:2005-09-25
PDX Metro

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You responded to the wrong person.

Xioden
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join:2008-06-10
Monticello, NY

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I do recurring payments for quite a few things. In all cases, they pre-auth a day or so in advance, and then process the card on the renewal date. If for any reason the pre-auth is rejected, or the actual charge doesn't go through, they simply don't provide the service/product.

If they're sending/providing their product to a customer and then billing them after-the-fact, it's just stupid on the part of the business.

hortnut
Huh?
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I agree that one cannot bring up fraud mid-stream on something that has been paid all along. Curious that the OP is not contacting whoever is charging his old Amex to have it taken care of.

But this makes me curious about Amex. Amex must handle things differently than Visa. And maybe it is my Credit Union, as well.

Other than my experience I noted above, about 10 years ago my Stepson got a hold of my Credit Card and charged things on it. Called my Credit Union and closed the Credit Card, Debit Card and Checking Account. Someone ate those charges, as I definitely remember not paying for anything. I did make an effort to intercept all of the goods and return them. Some of the services, well I handled those differently.

Again, got all new Cards and Numbers and Checks. Remembered companies, except one, that had automatic withdrawals and took care of those by giving them the new Account Numbers. The other one bounced [their system pinged my Old Number several times], until that Provider contacted me. So I made it good.

A few months later ordered some supplies from my sales rep and gave him my new numbers over the phone. Somehow his assistant pulled up my file and used my old number and it did not go through. Got a call from his assistant and gave the right numbers. So the old numbers had died.

Thinkdiff
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Thinkdiff to Xioden

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said by Xioden:

If they're sending/providing their product to a customer and then billing them after-the-fact, it's just stupid on the part of the business.

The particular example I gave involved a payment plan for an expensive but revokable membership, so if the credit card ever stopped working, they'd just cancel the membership. Perhaps the company had a special contract with AMEX to allow recurring payments on the account even in cases when the card # changes - I'm not entirely sure it would be the same for a smaller, less powerful merchant. But I was just pointing out that it's not always guaranteed a new card will prevent new charges, especially when there's a history of the charges being accepted on the old card.

Boooost
@optonline.net

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I had a similar issue with a Chase Visa account, although the account was still open. A merchant was billing for a recurring charge which was supposed to have been suspended. I called Chase, and the rep said they cannot prevent the merchant from charging my account. On a later call, I was transferred to a different department, and they were able to put a permanent block on that merchant ever charging my account.

So the front line CSRs may not be able to do it (and may not even know it's possible, because it's not part of their training), but if you can escalate your request, they may do it.
PX Eliezer1
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said by Xioden:

If they're sending/providing their product to a customer and then billing them after-the-fact, it's just stupid on the part of the business.

Suppose they sent him something like a new computer and he was supposed to pay it off in "6 easy payments" on his credit card?

Something like that....
85281231 (banned)
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said by CylonRed:

Have you talk to the merchant yet???

Of course not considering that should be the SECOND call.

I smell troll.
Mango
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said by DataDoc:

The rep there mentioned that an account is never really cancelled, just marked inactive. Until a charge comes in.

I've heard of this practice before and I just don't understand how this is legal.

What happens if you move away, have no mail forwarding, and a new phone number? Presumably if you don't pay your credit card bill it'll be a hit on your credit score, but that doesn't seem right if the transaction is fraudulent and you had no way of knowing about it. I've certainly not kept my contact information up to date with financial institutions I no longer deal with.

m.
PX Eliezer1
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PX Eliezer1

Premium Member

That is an excellent point.

I've heard of Amex doing this before.

Probably the card companies (but especially Amex) figure that once you sign up they have you for life.

That's the one thing that the mob and the CIA have in common as well.
Mango
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said by Thinkdiff:

This is done so people can't be deadbeats, sign up for services/contracts, and then cancel the card a month later to avoid payment.

I used to work for a company that charged for services monthly. Merchants shouldn't use a credit card as a method of enforcing contracts as people actually do what you described from time to time. (I guess different issuers have different policies.) The other thing a dishonest customer can do is claim they canceled the contract or wanted to change their payment method, and since the merchant can't prove they didn't, the customer will typically win a dispute.

Of course - if the customer wins, the merchant can still take the customer to small claims and probably win with good documentation, or send them to collections. I've never done either of these, but have a few friends who do this regularly.

In our case, our system suspended our customer's account immediately when a transaction was declined and reinstated it when the account was paid, so none of our customers were allowed to go negative.

Midniteoyl
join:2013-11-22
Knox, IN

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Had this happen years ago.. Wife had a new AMEX card that for whatever reason, she canceled after 3 months. All was fine and good until 2 years later we get a bill. Wondering what it was, we called and was told that somewhere she had put the card number into a free trial (AOL - told you it was years ago ). She canceled in the 2 week period for the AOL trial, but they still charged monthly (they had a problem with that). AMEX paid for close to 2 years from a canceled credit account to a canceled ISP account without either sending any bills.. Was crazy. Fortunately, a call to the fraud department solved the issue and AMEX ate the money.

This was around the same time MCI Worldcom was doing the same thing, and some 'six months same as cash' places were misapplying your 'final paymant' and charging the full interest. The mid 90's were fun times..

Hayward0
K A R - 1 2 0 C
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join:2000-07-13
Key West, FL

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said by Thinkdiff:

Example: I signed up for a 1 year monthly payment plan with "company A" on my AMEX. 7-months into it, my card number was stolen by a compromised POS machine. AMEX issued a new card and number, but I forgot to change the number on file with "company A". Sure enough, on months 8-12, that payment still showed up just fine on my bill. The only time I realized I never updated the card was when I went back to sign up for another year and they asked if my card still ended in the now-cancelled numbers.

The problem the OP will likely have is that he cannot (without lying) report the charges as fraudulent or he would've done that already. With a prior record of "accepted" charges from the merchant on that card number, AMEX will continue to allow charges to go through. Only the merchant can resolve this problem unless they are charging the card without authorization to do so, which is exactly what AMEX told the OP

.

This seems unique to crAMEX both VISA and Discover they cancel a card it is CANCELED period, and any new charges or auto pay things bounce and the merchants contact you for new payment options.... or service ends/merchandise not sent..

Again this allowing charges to a canceled card is crAMEX alone.... and typical of their BS and why always stayed away from them. Let alone their obscene fees for no actual credit. Though last few years have sort of joined the rest of the world with their Blue BS finally, vs the old just plastic checkbook.

Also why AMEX is the MOST unaccepted card out there they screw customers and merchants alike... never their fault.
scross
join:2002-09-13
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I've seen credit card companies continue to process payments from known vendors under the justification that this is probably just an honest screw-up, where the customer simply forgot to inform the vendor of their new credit card info. This seems reasonable enough, as it probably minimizes headaches and customer service calls for everyone involved.

But I've also seen vendors continue to bill your credit card even after you've cancelled your service with them. This is often done just in order to pad their bottom line, because during the 30 or 60 or 90 days or whatever it takes to get this all straightened out, they get to keep your money and generate float off of that.

Anonymous_
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127.0.0.1

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said by Midniteoyl:

Had this happen years ago.. Wife had a new AMEX card that for whatever reason, she canceled after 3 months. All was fine and good until 2 years later we get a bill. Wondering what it was, we called and was told that somewhere she had put the card number into a free trial (AOL - told you it was years ago ). She canceled in the 2 week period for the AOL trial, but they still charged monthly (they had a problem with that). AMEX paid for close to 2 years from a canceled credit account to a canceled ISP account without either sending any bills.. Was crazy. Fortunately, a call to the fraud department solved the issue and AMEX ate the money.

It works easier with the Online things since the item is not signed for and card is not present .(unless you signed at delivery)

r81984
Fair and Balanced
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They all do this. If you authorized reoccuring payments then they still go through even if the card is canceled.
Now since the card was canceled you are 100% right and they are 100% wrong, but as I said visa does this crap too.
Amex should have blocked all future charges on the card when you specifically requested it and told them all future charges are unauthorized.

Majestik
World Traveler
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join:2001-05-11
Tulsa, OK

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said by 85281231:

said by CylonRed:

Have you talk to the merchant yet???

Of course not considering that should be the SECOND call.

I smell troll.

Odd post from OP.
If you don't cancel through the merchant some will still charge.

I canceled and had my Amex Blue/number reissued to me. I had a recurring account with my local gym and home security company. They reacted quickly. The security called me immediately and when I went to my local 24 gym at 3am I was locked out. First thing that morning the gym called me when they saw me on cam trying to use my smart card and assumed something like this happened. Gave them my new card number.

Forgot I already received a notice from the antivirus company that my subscription was to be renewed soon. A month later the charge went through on my new card. I called Amex and asked how this can happen and they explained why. Also called the antivirus company.
It made sense like Thinkdiff said.
Only took one call to the merchant to remedy this.

I learned Somethin here. From then on I only do recurring to these two local businesses and never with any online only business.
Removed "recurring" option from the antivirus account.
They sent a receipt stating that I removed the recurring option. Now I get an email stating its time to renew. They can't touch my account.

One thing I always do is get everything in writing. I keep very good records.
Amex is a pretty good card. First credit card since high school. My dad preferred I get the green card to learn the habit of paying off full at end of month. That was 1986. (Still paying off my cards in 24 hours after use and completely debt free)
Amex will fight for you in dispute and other cards are finally catching up with the security options they have.
I've also been paying my gym membership with Amex award points for almost two years. I wished my other two cards let me use my points like this.

hurfy
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Spokane, WA

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Had the same happen on VIsa. One MMORPG bill made it through to the new number and another didn't. The one that didn't was the longest running that I simply forgot to change and, of course, the one that did I actually wanted to cancel.

The one that made it thru to new card WAS a much bigger company however, hmm.

Msradell
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Louisville, KY

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said by Majestik:

My dad preferred I get the green card to learn the habit of paying off full At end of month. That was 1986. (Still paying off my cards in 24 hours after use and completely debt free)

Congratulations to your dad for instilling good financial practices on you! However, I paying off your card in 24 hours after use instead of when the statement is due you are screwing yourself. Hold the money and pay when the payment is due. You still won't incur any interest charges but will have the cash available to you for other uses or to generate interest.

Majestik
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Majestik

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I used to do that back in the 90s. But when they changed the due date twice on me and I ended up paying a late fee I decided to just pay it immediately especially since we have the technology now.

For me the credit card is just a tool to take the place of cash and good record keeping because if I don't have the cash I don't buy.
I pay no monthly fees for my cards. My emergency funds and household savings allotted for everyday uses when needed is invested (shares of Oneok,One Gas,Visa,Amex,Starbucks,American Airlines,etc.)generating at least $500/mo. taxable income from reinvested dividends alone.
Dad also told me to invest in companies I consume from and let them pay my bills and increase net worth. The credit card companies pay me now.
Most of the time I just use my take home pay after My Roth 401k/Roth 401k,Roth IRA,personal savings are maxed/funded and all bills are paid.
I accumulated so much that I now self-insure my washer/dryer,Ipads,Iphone,kitchen appliances when I remodel and probably my car in another year.
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