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TheMayor

join:2002-05-09

2 edits

[Qwest] High Ping Times

Hi Everyone,

Lately it seems every time it rains, I experience high ping times (after the 1st hop for the modem). I'll called tech support, but they said nothing looks to be wrong with the line & very low download speeds.

If I do a tracert to google, here are the results.

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms My Router
2 543 ms 807 ms 690 ms tukw-dsl-gw65.tukw.qwest.net [63.231.10.65]
3 687 ms 629 ms 456 ms tukw-agw1.inet.qwest.net [71.217.186.1]
4 573 ms 808 ms * sea-edge-13.inet.qwest.net [67.14.41.70]
5 571 ms 791 ms * 65.116.65.210
6 660 ms 551 ms 603 ms 209.85.249.32
7 562 ms 697 ms 690 ms 209.85.244.59
8 632 ms 748 ms 552 ms sea09s15-in-f14.1e100.net [173.194.33.78]

On A speedtest, I'm getting around 1.5 to 2 Mbps down & around 3 Mbps up (usually get around 23.5-24 down & 4.7 up).

Would trying to find one of the Zyxel Q1000z or Q100 modem help with this issue?
Below are the modem stats

Modem Stats:

Broadband Mode Setting: MULTIMODE
Broadband Mode Detected: VDSL2 - 8A
DSL Link Uptime: 7 Days, 9H:23M:35S
Retrains: 1
Retrains in Last 24 Hours: 0
Loss of Power Link Failures: 0
Loss of Signal Link Failure: 0
Loss of Margin Link Failure: 0
Link Train Errors: 0
Unavailable Seconds: 19
Estimated Loop Length: N/A
Un-Canceled Echo: N/A

Modem Connected @ 26112 / 5120

Transport

Status

VPI: N/A
VCI: N/A
ATM QoS class: N/A
PTM VLAN QoS: 0
MTU Size: 1500
VLAN: PTM 201
Packets Sent: 140016500
Packets Received: 106714446
Error Packets Sent: 0
Error Packets Received: 0
30 Minute Discarded Packets Upstream: 0
30 Minute Discarded Packets Downstream: 0

Channel

Status

Channel Type: Interleaved
Near End CRC Errors: 56
Far End CRC: 0
30 Minute Near End CRC: 313
30 Minute Far End CRC: 0
Near End RS FEC: 0
Far End RS FEC: 0
30 Minute Near End FEC: 230345
30 Minutes Far End FEC: 3509

Levels

Downstream

Upstream

SNR: 17 dB 9 dB
Attenuation: 20 dB 6 dB
Power: 16.6 dBm 7.9 dBm



TAZ

join:2014-01-03
Tucson, AZ
kudos:3

Not seeing anything wrong with the stats. Normally congestion is my first suggestion with such a high first hop and speed degradation, but the "only happening when it rains" and Qwest FTTN attributes make that unclear.

Are you using the modem for routing?


TheMayor

join:2002-05-09

I am using a separate router.



TAZ

join:2014-01-03
Tucson, AZ
kudos:3

Best suggestions I could provide at this point, both of which I'm sure you've thought of anyway:
1) isolate router
2) reboot modem

I don't believe it's a line issue based on your stats, but the rain aspect is interesting. And I don't tend to find "it's raining so everyone stays inside, causing congestion" to be a very likely theory.


coryw

join:2013-12-22
Flagstaff, AZ
Reviews:
·CenturyLink
reply to TheMayor

Wow, such latency.

Do you have voice on that line? What happens when you try to make a call, or try to get dialtone? Is there a lot of static on the line? It may help to ask CL/Qwest to move your service to a different pair, or ask whether or not any moisture has gotten into the lines.

Either that or something else is wrong with what I presume is either your DSLAM or your BRAS.

Have you had an opportunity to ask other people with Qwest/CL nearby if they're having the same issues?



TAZ

join:2014-01-03
Tucson, AZ
kudos:3

said by coryw:

Do you have voice on that line? What happens when you try to make a call, or try to get dialtone? Is there a lot of static on the line? It may help to ask CL/Qwest to move your service to a different pair, or ask whether or not any moisture has gotten into the lines.

The problem with that theory is the line stats all seem OK. Not many errors and the signal numbers are very good. Whatever the problem is, I don't believe it's the line.

said by coryw:

Either that or something else is wrong with what I presume is either your DSLAM or your BRAS.

Have you had an opportunity to ask other people with Qwest/CL nearby if they're having the same issues?

Asking others would be a good idea. I mean, it's theoretically possible for this to be congestion (and like I mentioned in my last post, "when it rains" brings up an... interesting theory, everyone's inside and using their connection causing congestion, but that just seems ridiculous). But I'm always far more reluctant to call congestion on the FTTN network because of the capacity available.


Irish Shark
Play Like A Champion Today
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-29
Las Vegas, NV
kudos:5
reply to TheMayor

I have seen many posts here on Internet errors when it rains. You might try a search on rain (or something like that) and there might be something that gives you a clue as what might be going on.

One thing that I see are errors on the Near End (that is to your MODEM). Most are correctable FEC errors, but there is an issue from the CO/DSLAM to your MODEM.

A wire/connection is getting wet. If you can, look at the inside of the ONT/NID for any moisture.

I did a ping test and tracert to each of the hops in your tracert. No errors at any hop, but many of the routers are not responding to pings. This starts from hop 4 to hop 7. On the routers that do respond, I am getting 24ms to 53ms. A tracert to the last hop (173.194.33.78) was clean and a RTT of 48ms.

So it is fine from LV. It has to be on the line coming to you.

Traceroute has started
 
traceroute to 173.194.33.78 (173.194.33.78), 64 hops max, 72 byte packets
 1  junk.lv.cox.net (192.168.1.1)  0.375 ms  0.275 ms  0.261 ms
 2  10.66.192.1 (10.66.192.1)  5.696 ms  11.131 ms  5.971 ms
 3  24-234-8-85.ptp.lvcm.net (24.234.8.85)  8.099 ms  7.494 ms  7.803 ms
 4  24-234-6-37.ptp.lvcm.net (24.234.6.37)  8.158 ms  8.159 ms
    24-234-6-29.ptp.lvcm.net (24.234.6.29)  7.476 ms
 5  24-234-6-218.ptp.lvcm.net (24.234.6.218)  7.579 ms  7.557 ms  8.739 ms
 6  68.1.5.137 (68.1.5.137)  19.942 ms  20.355 ms  20.030 ms
 7  langbbrj01-ge050000804.r2.la.cox.net (68.105.30.181)  20.149 ms  19.743 ms  20.377 ms
 8  * * 216.239.46.40 (216.239.46.40)  60.402 ms
 9  209.85.248.125 (209.85.248.125)  12.862 ms  11.963 ms  12.091 ms
10  64.233.174.207 (64.233.174.207)  49.123 ms  49.163 ms  47.453 ms
11  216.239.49.198 (216.239.49.198)  35.809 ms  36.504 ms  36.784 ms
12  209.85.248.221 (209.85.248.221)  46.366 ms  46.578 ms  47.954 ms
13  66.249.94.194 (66.249.94.194)  47.951 ms  46.619 ms  47.771 ms
14  209.85.244.59 (209.85.244.59)  38.364 ms  40.000 ms  40.033 ms
15  sea09s15-in-f14.1e100.net (173.194.33.78)  47.808 ms  47.721 ms  48.155 ms
 

If you cannot find any moisture on your end, call Quest/CL.

--
"You can observe a lot by watching". Yogi Berra


TAZ

join:2014-01-03
Tucson, AZ
kudos:3

said by Irish Shark:

One thing that I see are errors on the Near End (that is to your MODEM). Most are correctable FEC errors, but there is an issue from the CO/DSLAM to your MODEM.

It's unclear if those numbers are even valid. Notice how the total error counts are less than the 30 minute counts.

Errors (either CRC or FEC) wouldn't be causing high latency, just complete drops for CRC.

coryw

join:2013-12-22
Flagstaff, AZ
Reviews:
·CenturyLink

He is actually having what I would call an exorbitant number of FEC errors. 7,000 of them per minute. At least one suggestion I've seen (although, it was in the U-Verse forum) was that you should really only see about 10,000 of them in a day.

Incidentally, what's the RS FEC line? My modem currently shows 0 for those too, even though I do have three total far end FECs.

If your line is running correctly you should ideally see pretty close to 0 FECs. I have 0 near end and 3 far end FECs right now, and my modem has been trained up for 21 days now.

I'd agree with Irish Shark that it's something up with the line between the DSLAM/BRAS (depending on what tukw-dsl-gw65.tukw.qwest.net is) and OP's house.


TheMayor

join:2002-05-09

1 edit
reply to coryw

I do have voice on the line & no problems with static or anything else & I don't know any neighbors who use CTL.

I did try after posting this using a different modem (C100A, the one everyone dislikes) & noticed at the time, the ping time was higher then normal, but was a was a lot less then what I was seeing with the Actiontec Q1000.

I should add that I did unplugged the modem (Q1000) & router for a few minutes, which did seem to work for a about 5 minutes before it started giving the high ping times again

Based on the current stats of the C1000A, it shows

Channel Near End Far End

CRC Errors 27 0
30 Min CRC 367 0
RS FEC 0 0
30 Min FEC 32636 516

When I do a tracert now, this is what I get:

2 21 ms 22 ms 21 ms tukw-dsl-gw65.tukw.qwest.net [63.231.10.65]
3 21 ms 20 ms 21 ms tukw-agw1.inet.qwest.net [71.217.186.1]
4 21 ms 22 ms 21 ms sea-edge-13.inet.qwest.net [67.14.41.70]
5 * * * Request timed out.
6 22 ms 21 ms 21 ms 209.85.249.34
7 22 ms 22 ms 22 ms 209.85.244.63
8 21 ms 22 ms 22 ms sea09s16-in-f7.1e100.net [173.194.33.103]

Now does Near end mean modem or the dslam? When I looked this up before something else mentioned it was the dslam & far end was the modem.

I did have tech support last summer due to the modem not wanting to connect at the full 5 upload, which they did put me on a different pair, & mentioned I probably would see errors due to the 6 dB Attenuation & probably would have to reboot the modem once a month, but it seems like its more frequent when it rains, especially recently. I t seemed to be fine before when it was raining.



TAZ

join:2014-01-03
Tucson, AZ
kudos:3
reply to coryw

said by coryw:

He is actually having what I would call an exorbitant number of FEC errors. 7,000 of them per minute.

7,000 would be excessive, but I've seen high 30 minute error counts a lot. Based on the inconsistency (between 30 minute and total) and frequency, I'm inclined to believe they're bogus.

It would be interesting to see error counts at a later time without rain. (edit: nice)

said by coryw:

Incidentally, what's the RS FEC line? My modem currently shows 0 for those too, even though I do have three total far end FECs.

Which line are you referring to specifically (and what are you asking)?

said by coryw:

If your line is running correctly you should ideally see pretty close to 0 FECs. I have 0 near end and 3 far end FECs right now, and my modem has been trained up for 21 days now.

Ideally, yes. You're also at 1.5M. You'll see them far more frequently at higher speeds.

said by coryw:

I'd agree with Irish Shark that it's something up with the line between the DSLAM/BRAS (depending on what tukw-dsl-gw65.tukw.qwest.net is) and OP's house.

That is a BRAS.


TAZ

join:2014-01-03
Tucson, AZ
kudos:3
reply to TheMayor

said by TheMayor:

Based on the current stats of the C1000A, it shows

Channel Near End Far End

CRC Errors 27 0
30 Min CRC 367 0
RS FEC 0 0
30 Min FEC 32636 516

So once again, the error counts are ridiculous and inconsistent.

said by TheMayor:

Now does Near end mean modem or the dslam? When I looked this up before something else mentioned it was the dslam & far end was the modem.

From the modem's point of view, near end = errors corrected by the modem, i.e. data sent by the DSLAM to the modem (downstream).

said by TheMayor:

I did have tech support last summer due to the modem not wanting to connect at the full 5 upload, which they did put me on a different pair, & mentioned I probably would see errors due to the 6 dB Attenuation & probably would have to reboot the modem once a month, but it seems like its more frequent when it rains, especially recently. I t seemed to be fine before when it was raining.

Not sure what this is either. I don't see any issues with attenuation or SNR.

coryw

join:2013-12-22
Flagstaff, AZ
Reviews:
·CenturyLink
reply to TAZ

said by TAZ:

Based on the inconsistency (between 30 minute and total) and frequency, I'm inclined to believe they're bogus.

I may just be having a brain dysfunction moment, but I don't see a total count at all.

said by TAZ:

Which line are you referring to specifically (and what are you asking)?

There's a line that reads "RS FEC" and it shows the near/far ends. Is that the total count, or is RS FEC something else entirely?

said by TAZ:

Ideally, yes. You're also at 1.5M. You'll see them far more frequently at higher speeds.

Like, I don't think my 20M line ever had them.


TAZ

join:2014-01-03
Tucson, AZ
kudos:3

said by coryw:

said by TAZ:

Which line are you referring to specifically (and what are you asking)?

There's a line that reads "RS FEC" and it shows the near/far ends. Is that the total count, or is RS FEC something else entirely?

Ahh, you're referring to "FEC" vs. "RS FEC." Those counters are referring to the same events.

Here's a snapshot from my Q100 after a reset. The numbers from telnet and the Web UI were taken at roughly the same time (not exact, but within a second or two):

Web UI

Near End RS FEC Interleave: 361019
30 Minute Near End FEC Interleave: 361026

Telnet

RSCorr (near end): 361019

The slight inconsistency can be explained by the order in which these are shown. I suspect they're fetching the counts one at a time, not a consistent snapshot at a point in time. The total near end count is fetched first, then total far end, then 30 minute near end, which explains the extra few errors shown in the 30 minute count.

FWIW, I am getting about 500 per second (near end) right now and have seen it higher. That of course is due to my marginal line conditions (re. the 2 dB SNR margin), but my benchmark is not "how many errors am I getting," rather "is it stable?" (to which the answer is yes). Even at 12M with a reasonable SNR I had them, not sure how many but they were there.