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scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN
reply to nwrickert

Re: Microsoft to release IE security patch today, including one for Windows XP

said by nwrickert:

I'll disagree on the "reboot" part.

There are systems out there which don't necessarily require a reboot for such things, although they may require a soft reset of some very limited type in order to ensure that everything relevant is now up to date. The "must reboot" mentality is a legacy of what Microsoft has wrought in the computing world.


siljaline
I'm lovin' that double wide
Premium
join:2002-10-12
Montreal, QC
kudos:17
reply to jack b

You should let MS know when patches break things ! Best way is MS Answers



Parad0X787
"If U know neither the enemy nor yoursel
Premium
join:2013-09-17
Edmonton, AB
reply to jack b

None of 4 machine break anything & could NOT imagine IE tied with CHROME ¿ ¿



Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7

1 edit

 
I too am curious what the linkage or dependency was in Jack's case, between Chrome and anything Microsoft.

Though I chose to avoid Chrome due to their arbitrary non-inclusion of the traditional classic menu bar, I wonder still whether his problem could be replicated on another PC ?



nwrickert
sand groper
Premium,MVM
join:2004-09-04
Geneva, IL
kudos:7
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
reply to scross

said by scross:

There are systems out there which don't necessarily require a reboot for such things

Agreed. I am using one.

Nevertheless, that has nothing to do with how MS integrated IE into the operating system. It mostly has to do with the file system design.
--
AT&T Uverse; Buffalo WHR-300HP router (behind the 2wire gateway); openSuSE 13.1; KDE 4.11.5; firefox 29.0

scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN

said by nwrickert:

Nevertheless, that has nothing to do with how MS integrated IE into the operating system. It mostly has to do with the file system design.

Yes, FUNDAMENTAL design flaws/limitations, and all of that. It never ceases to amaze me how people try to claim that Microsoft is "enterprise class", when they (both MS and many of their customers) have shown very little indication over the years that they understand what "enterprise quality" actually is!

Shady Bimmer
Premium
join:2001-12-03
Northport, NY
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to scross

said by scross:

3. A bug like this which affects the BROWSER (which is just another application, mind you - or at least should be) shouldn't require a patch to the OPERATING SYSTEM, much less require a reboot.

Where do you see actual evidence that this is an OS patch rather than a browser-related patch? The best I have found is that it is indeed just an update for IE related components.

If an application so chooses to use the native-provided client-side web functionality provided-by the default desktop windows install (and known to reliably exist) then that does not make it an OS issue.

For what it is worth I did not require a reboot on any of my systems (five in total) for this fix.

Also or what it is worth, on all current OSs when a shared library needs to be updated, if any part of that library is in use at the time of patch application a reboot is required. This is by far not unique to Windows.

I do not disagree that MS perhaps overstepped bounds by integrating IE so tightly into the OS, but it is not MS that forced so many third-party applications to also depend on IE components.

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to scross

A reboot was NOT needed on Windows 8 Pro. So, this did just affect IE 10 and not Windows 8.


scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN

said by Mele20:

A reboot was NOT needed on Windows 8 Pro. So, this did just affect IE 10 and not Windows 8.

A reboot was required for some of the older operating systems, at least, but depending on the situation perhaps this was more a matter of routine than absolute necessity.

scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN
reply to Shady Bimmer

said by Shady Bimmer:

Also or what it is worth, on all current OSs when a shared library needs to be updated, if any part of that library is in use at the time of patch application a reboot is required. This is by far not unique to Windows.

That is an overly broad statement. There are plenty of true enterprise-class systems out there (or at least there used to be) which have been around for a long time and which are designed to minimize outages of all types, since these generally can't be (and aren't) done lightly. Not that they aren't still sometimes required, mind you, but they are by design rare, and years may go by before something like a forced reboot is done.

Like I said, the "just reboot it" mentality is largely a Microsoft thing. I've had to fight that battle before - where a Microsoft server needed rebooting for whatever reason, and before you know it the local IT crew has decided to just reboot everything else in the room that might talk to that server, because they either couldn't be bothered to learn (or maybe just couldn't retain) the simple steps required to get everything talking again after the server came back up. In many cases, the steps required to get things talking again after rebooting the other equipment were even more involved than those they would have to go through without doing the reboot, but I quickly learned that it was generally faster to just go ahead and let them do whatever they wanted to rather than waste time talking about it, especially in a crunch-time situation.

said by Shady Bimmer:

I do not disagree that MS perhaps overstepped bounds by integrating IE so tightly into the OS, but it is not MS that forced so many third-party applications to also depend on IE components.

Are you talking about the same Microsoft that went around twisting arms and busting heads (as necessary) in order to get everyone to commit to almost exclusively using IE in the first place, and then made IE so quirky and non-standard that you really had no choice but to commit excessive resources to maintaining compatibility and inter-operability with it? Under those circumstances, I'm not so sure that a statement like "it is not MS that forced so many ..." holds much water.

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to scross

said by scross:

A reboot was required for some of the older operating systems, at least, but depending on the situation perhaps this was more a matter of routine than absolute necessity

Microsoft did say that a reboot would be needed. So, after I downloaded it, I closed Firefox and Thunderbird thinking I was going to have to reboot after installing the patch. To my surprise, the installer said "successfully installed" and nothing about rebooting like I have seen with almost all Windows 8 patches (XP Pro never needed reboots as often as Windows 8 does). I thought then maybe it didn't really install. So, I started IE and About IE showed it successfully installed.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson


Dude111
An Awesome Dude
Premium
join:2003-08-04
USA
kudos:12
reply to jack b

Your lucky Jack as alot of ppl say once they take this (ON XP) thier system restore is disabled as well as thier IE is messed up......

Im glad you were able to back out!!



Littlem129
Premium
join:2007-05-13
White Pine, TN
reply to Parad0X787

Re: Microsoft to release IE security patch today, including one for Windows XP

I'm running Windows 7 and didn't have to reboot...no problems so far.


scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN
reply to Mele20

said by Mele20:

Microsoft did say that a reboot would be needed.

I rebooted (eventually) because Microsoft said a reboot was required. But then I needed to reboot anyway because of an Avast program update, which I don't really understand the need for a reboot for, either.

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5

Hmmm....maybe I should reboot then as I never did! I used to use Avast and I don't recall it ever needing a reboot.



tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
Premium,MVM
join:2008-01-16
Chandler, AZ
kudos:1

said by Mele20:

Hmmm....maybe I should reboot then as I never did!

my win7 enterprise vm did not need a reboot.
my windows xp vm did.

i've not updated my win 8.1 pro vm yet.

q.
--
"...if I in my north room dance naked, grotesquely before my mirror waving my shirt round my head and singing softly to myself..."


StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
Premium
join:2000-08-06
Galt's Gulch
kudos:2

1 recommendation

reply to Parad0X787

Y'all might want to download and use the SysInternals PendMoves utility. That'll show you if files need to be updated/deleted at the next reboot.
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!



Sportsfan

join:2012-03-26
Reviews:
·CenturyLink
reply to Parad0X787

It didn't require a reboot here on W7 with IE 11, but I always reboot after MS updates as a precaution. I've had no problems with the update, except for one curious Windows Explorer (not Internet Explorer) crash a minute after I rebooted after the IE patch.


Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5

1 edit
reply to StuartMW

Click for full size
How do I get it to run?

GuruGuy

join:2002-12-16
Atlanta, GA

said by Mele20:

How do I get it to run?

Did the downloaded file come with a help file? I don't see anything on that website on how to run it or any FAQ's to help.
--
GuruGuy

OZO
Premium
join:2003-01-17
kudos:2

1 recommendation

reply to Mele20

As usual in such cases, you may use any of those ways:
• go to folder where you unpack the tool and run it from there
• put tool into folder that's included into PATH environment variable
• include path to folder where you download and extracted it to the PATH environment variable
• create a BAT file that runs the tool and put it into PATH
etc.
--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...


Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5

None of that works.

I need to know the correct syntax for running it from a command window.

I put it in the system32 directory. I still get the error I posted.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson



Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7

3 edits

 
The error message which you got is their fancy way of saying "cannot find the program which you asked to run".

To where did you unzip the contents of your downloaded file ?

I unzipped mine into my WINDOWS folder, so that the contained files would be in my PATH, and the PENDMOVES command responds properly from wherever else that I am at my prompt.

BTW (also to GuruGuy), there IS syntax (albeit brief) mentioned on the download page, and it seems to be correct.

YOUR issue seems to be what to do FIRST with what you downloaded, and they did not explain THAT on the web page, but what I did ought to work for any command line stuff such as this, and MS was assuming that we all knew so.

AND, the MOVEFILE command can be used to help you manually remove any files which you believe to be MALWARE and such, if you cannot because Windows has loaded them each time that it starts. - BUT USE AT YOUR OWN RISK !



StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
Premium
join:2000-08-06
Galt's Gulch
kudos:2

said by Davesnothere:

...but what I did ought to work for any command line stuff such as this, and MS was assuming that we all knew so.

I've been running Microsoft console/command line apps since MS-DOS 2.x, that is for the last 30 years or so, but I guess that is an "advanced" thing these days. I still run console apps daily...

Anyway I have used most, if not all, SysInternals utilities at one time or another (and some daily). I keep them in

(64-bit Windows)

C:\Program Files (x86)\SysInternals

(32-bit Windows)

C:\Program Files\SysInternals

and have the folder in my PATH environment variable.

PS: I've also been using the utilities for about a decade--before Microsoft bought them out.
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7

 
Yes, I too have used their Process Explorer since before the MS days.

MUCH better than Task Mangler !

But I chose not to edit my PATH for the PENDMOVES utils, and did not wish to assume that all readers here knew how.


Millenium

join:2013-10-30
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
reply to Parad0X787

A week later we have a new RCE patch, but this time XP isn't getting it.

»Microsoft Security Bulletin Advance Notification - May 8, 2014

If you're still on XP, like me, use a limited user account and an alternate browser.


Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to Davesnothere

I let WinRar unzip it to D:\Downloaded Programs\PendMoves. Then I read that I should move it to C:\Windows\System32 (or just C:\Windows). So, last night, I grabbed the file with the mouse and thought I dropped it on C:\Windows\System32. I then used the command window to run it and got that error again.

Tonight, I double checked and it was my bad...I had dropped it in C:\Windows\System32\ar-SA. I must have been really tired to have dropped it so sloppily and then not even noticed! So, I moved it out of that folder and dropped it directly in C:\Windows\System32. It then ran correctly in a command box (after I got an error twice because I misspelled "Windows". White text on a black background is really hard on my eyes).

I see nothing that looks related to the IE patch.

As for Sysinternals programs, I used to use some of them (like Process Explorer) a lot on XP Pro. I remember Steve Gibson alerting everyone in News Groups, years ago, that he had grabbed the last set of Sysinternals utilities available before Microsoft starting requiring accepting a EULA for each one. He briefly made that last set without the Eulas available to everyone reading his GRC News Groups and I grabbed a set and used some of them for a long time before I finally decided to get the Microsoft set. So, I am not totally ignorant of these utilities (but I never tried Pendmoves until now).

--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson