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techsup1983
join:2013-03-23

techsup1983

Member

[Info] Cisco 877w ISL router. Max speed + Virgin media compatibilty,.

Hi there, I was wondering if someone could advise me on a couple of things.
Im currently thinking to move from slow adsl to fast fiber 50mbps.
Would I be ok to continue using my cisco 877w isl router?
I would have a virgin media super hub so im guessing it would be ok connecting and providing network access from my pc's.
Also what is the max download/upload speeds which the cisco 877w can support.
I'm just trying to find out if i can still use my cisco with a uk virgin internet connection, or would I need to purchase a new router.
Thanks in advance.
HELLFIRE
MVM
join:2009-11-25

HELLFIRE

MVM

When you say "okay to use," what exactly do you mean techsup1983 See Profile ? You mean from a physical
connectivity / interface perspective, or from a throughput perspective?

If the latter, remember we've always got the two caveats a) what service(s) are you going to run,
and b) always check routerperformance.pdf to get an idea what the hardware can do bare metal.

87x is rated for 12.8Mbps according to the guide, so no the 877w will not hack it and you're going
to need a new router in the 180x / 181x series, or the higher model 28xx / 38xx series.

My 00000010bits

Regards
Shady Bimmer
Premium Member
join:2001-12-03

Shady Bimmer to techsup1983

Premium Member

to techsup1983
I have an 871 that I had used until I updated my VZ FiOS to 35/35. Using NAT and just a relatively small set of CBAC rules I had found that the 871 was not quite able to keep up with 25/25 (meaning I never actually got the full provisioned bandwidth) that I had prior to 35/35.

As has been noted in this forum many times the services you plan to use have a dramatic impact on throughput, but I would not expect an 87x to handle 50 mbps with any services (including simple NAT) in use.
techsup1983
join:2013-03-23

techsup1983

Member

hi there,
@helfire: when I said ok to use I meant ok to use as a router connected to a virgin super hub. Right now i'm using the 877w for just normal adsl on a slow connection.

12.8mbps is good but the router will be a bottleneck for me, so i'll need a new router by the looks of things.
just seems a shame to have to replace my router so soon after getting it.
I'll need to put some research into my next ISL router, i was looking for wifi and vlan support too.

@Shady: I will be using NAT/ wifi, i dont think i will get the full bandwidth with my current router. Bit of a shame really.

Any recomendations on my next isl router?
I'm kinda doing a ccna but very slowly, mainly for my own knowledge more than anything.

Thanks.

DaSneaky1D
what's up
MVM
join:2001-03-29
The Lou

DaSneaky1D

MVM

What sort of budget are you working with?
HELLFIRE
MVM
join:2009-11-25

HELLFIRE to techsup1983

MVM

to techsup1983
What DaSneaky1D See Profile asked... and I'd also add "are you looking to use it as your home edge router
first and a lab device 2nd," or the other way around? Learnings good and all, but keep in mind if
you've family members / roommates, they may not appreciate their internet being disrupted while you
reconfigure / reload the router.

My 00000010bits?

- 17xx and 26xx series routers can be had for very cheap, but the problem is they're LONG EOL and
longer in tooth, so I wouldn't even consider them beyond lab devices.

- The 89x and 180x / 181x routers come in wireless and nonwireless versions; last I checked, an 1800
could be found on ebay for ~$400USD or less. I'm also very sure either one of these devices will
handle your internet speeds without issue.

- 28xx devices are a possibility as I mentioned, and as they're EOL, you should be able to find them
on ebay fairly easily, however the lower end of the series are rather underpowered, so don't go buying
the first 28xx you see.

- x9xx devices are still being sold by Cisco, so expect to pay full price for them. There's also the
whole 15.x universal licence game you need to figure out...

Regards
markysharkey
Premium Member
join:2012-12-20
united kingd

markysharkey to techsup1983

Premium Member

to techsup1983
If you plan to use the Superhub at the edge and leave it to handle NAT and firewall services then yes you can still use the 877 BUT there are caveats as the guys have said, and it depends on what you want the 877 to do.
If you're just using the 877 as a switch then it should be able to move packets fast enough to keep up with the Virgin connection.
However if you are wanting to have VLAN's hanging off the 877 and inside your network you'll need to NAT on the 877. This will soak up processor cycles. Whether NAT alone soaks up enough cycles to slow down the connection I do not know, but I do configure this sort of "double NAT" frequently where I have customers hanging off Sky routers which cannot be configured for useful services and where I want VLAN's in a network.
techsup1983
join:2013-03-23

techsup1983

Member

Hi, and thanks for your replies. I'm still wondering how to proceed with this one. I do like the cisco 1941 but this is out of my price range. I like the size/shape and the 1gb/s ports. Is there any other cisco device that is similar but cheaper in size and seeds?

With my 877w I have 10/100 ports, so if I was using this router with a superhub then surely it would work at 10/100 speeds and I would be able to utilize the full 50mbps connection.

Thanks.
aryoba
MVM
join:2002-08-22

aryoba

MVM

The 1900 series are current model. Anything cheaper with 1G port will lead to EOS/EOL model, something like 2800 series (2821 or 2851) and 3800 series (3825 or 3845).

For non-Cisco product, something like Juniper SRX 210 firewall is current and is yet affordable.
markysharkey
Premium Member
join:2012-12-20
united kingd

markysharkey to techsup1983

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to techsup1983
It's not about port speed. Ignore the fact that the 877 has 4 x 10/100 ports because unless the router is running bare bones, you won't get 100Mb/s out of it.
The 1941 is current but again, just cos the ports are Gigabit doesn't mean they will throughput at that rate. It again depends on what services are running. It'll be faster than the 877 though, no doubt. Again the routerperf.pdf linked to above is your starting point for figuring out what router may suit your requirements.
For what it's worth, I asked my re-seller what router I should choose to kep up with BT Infinity 2 at 76Mb/s. He recommended a 2951 with the appropriate ADSL WIC card. That's a lot of router to replace a BT Homehub with just to be able to run at the full speed of the connection. I'm thinking there must beb something inbetween that would fit the bill.
HELLFIRE
MVM
join:2009-11-25

HELLFIRE to techsup1983

MVM

to techsup1983
If you can live without GigE interfaces, the 180x and 181x devices I suggested earlier will fit the bill... I've
done throughput testing to confirm they'll handle wirespeed with services, and I run one on my own 50Mbps internet
connection without issue.

Otherwise, 2nd aryoba See Profile and markysharkey See Profile 's previous statements wholeheartedly.

Regards
techsup1983
join:2013-03-23

techsup1983

Member

Thanks for all the suggestions guys, I've learned quite a bit around cisco's product range. One which has caught my eye is the 1941, this is about the size and has wifi that i'm looking for. They do cost a lot. Im going to take away your ideas to research this more before making a decision. At this point i'm not even sure if i will go ahead with the connection upgrade, what I have serves me well even tho it's a little slow at 4.5mpbs.
Thanks again.
markysharkey
Premium Member
join:2012-12-20
united kingd

markysharkey

Premium Member

IMO you really should upgrade if only so you have the ability to connect at decent speeds. You will at least KNOW why the LAN isn't seeing full speed and of course you can work around it if you want to download a movie or somesuch. But it will serve you well when a customer calls to complain about slow internet performance 'cos you'll have some experience of one of the possible problems. LOTS and LOTS of folk overestimate the performance of Cisco routers, including me until I was pointed towards routerperf. It was a real eye opener, and another tool in my fault finding arsenal.
HELLFIRE
MVM
join:2009-11-25

HELLFIRE to techsup1983

MVM

to techsup1983
Should add that another product under the Cisco umbrella is the Meraki line of gear. It's not IOS based, but
definately NOT Linksys By Cisco either. I also know one or two forum members have been working with it and
have pretty good things to say about it from an operational and management perspective.

Regards
markysharkey
Premium Member
join:2012-12-20
united kingd

markysharkey

Premium Member

I took up the offer of having some evaluation gear on my desk for a few weeks. Visibly they look identical to 2960-S switches but in a nice silver Meraki box. Management via the GUI is a snap BUT you do need some networking nous. They are NOT aimed at the plug 'n' play market although that doesn't stop plenty of hopefuls thinking they are!
Following the demo, I decided against going with Meraki for the moment, but that's probably a separate discussion.
cramer
Premium Member
join:2007-04-10
Raleigh, NC
Westell 6100
Cisco PIX 501

cramer

Premium Member

Yeah, Meraki is more of something for non-network type to oooh, and ahhhh over. They should take a note from their parent company... rack mount gear goes in racks in closets where people a) never see them, and b) the few that do, do give a flying f*** what they look like. (this is why most of cisco's 1U and 2U hardware is made from thin, stamped, zinc-plated steel.)

TomS_
Git-r-done
MVM
join:2002-07-19
London, UK

TomS_

MVM

I happen to think that most of Ciscos ISR G1 series routers look pretty damn sexy.

The ISR G2's, not so much. 1941 WTF is that? The 70's called and want their horrible designs back. The rest of them look like something that belongs under your TV (glossy black plastic? come on...)

I think theres a little bit of an art to network kit design, even though its purely cosmetic, I'll probably skip something in favor of something else if it looks better aesthetically.
markysharkey
Premium Member
join:2012-12-20
united kingd

markysharkey

Premium Member

I go by the old adage that if it loos right, it probably is. I agree on the 1941. Ugly ugly ugly.I know that's not the point but I still can't bring myself to install one!
techsup1983
join:2013-03-23

techsup1983

Member

I've been having a look around and i've started to lean towards the Cisco 1861 ISR router, cheaper than the 1941 and quite small.
HELLFIRE
MVM
join:2009-11-25

HELLFIRE to techsup1983

MVM

to techsup1983
Have one sitting in my rack, unpowered since I got it. Supposedly VERY nice kit -- 8port POE, CUCM / VOIP / POTS, dual routed
ports (but for SOME reason, not completely functional, according to a colleague who has tested one). CPU-wise, it's a different
model of the MPC85xx as the 180x and 181x line, but I haven't had a chance to benchmark it.

If I get a chance, I'll let you know.

Regards