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Meters

@107.77.68.x

No ones talking about metered bandwidth

The issue I see here is all these companies are advocating for title 2, to regulate ISPs as a public utility. With public utilities comes more meters and price caps. So the people wanting netflix will be paying more under title 2, because they're using the most bandwidth. Think of leaving your water running all day because someone is taking a 2 hour shower. That's how internet will be billed under Title 2.
masterbinky

join:2011-01-06
Carlsbad, NM

Re: No ones talking about metered bandwidth

With a capped profit margin on data, my bill would likely be lower than what I currently pay if I streamed 24/7. If it costs .01 cents a GB and they are stuck at a 10-15% markup, I'll gladly pay .015 cents a GB.
jjeffeory

join:2002-12-04
USA
How does this meter work for local phone service? For long distance, yes, there has been a time meter or per minute charge, but for basic service, how does this work. Are we going to be charge per minute? By distance to site, what? Do we get charged when someone pushes unwanted advertising or updates?
InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5

Re: No ones talking about metered bandwidth

said by jjeffeory:

Do we get charged when someone pushes unwanted advertising or updates?

The simplest way to solve that is to fully embrace a "sender pays" internet/transit/peering model. Make sure you never send more data than the base amount included in your internet plan and you never need to worry about getting surprise bills from your ISP because all the data you receive is paid for by the sender.

For that to happen though, ISPs have to be able to bill the transit providers and peers for traffic balance... and for it to make sense for end-users, ISPs have to pass at least some of those savings along to offset the potential cost increases on individual online/cloud services.
jjeffeory

join:2002-12-04
USA

Re: No ones talking about metered bandwidth

Screw caps. Don't need them; haven't needed them; don't want them. That's a false choice, because that's not a choice. I don't have caps right now and where I lived, but do at the other place across the country. I won't accept a service that requires caps, so the sender pays model is equally terrible to me.
InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5

Re: No ones talking about metered bandwidth

Sender pays is how most peering arrangements have always worked: whichever side pushes the highest sustained bandwidth peaks compensates the other if said peaks exceed the peering agreement's allowances.
jjeffeory

join:2002-12-04
USA

Re: No ones talking about metered bandwidth

That's not how it works on the "Customer" side though, and it seems that certain powers that be want it to be the case for the customer too.
InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5

Re: No ones talking about metered bandwidth

That would probably hurt some companies pretty bad with people continuously re-downloading 10GB games to "earn" their $0.001/GB from their ISP's transit compensation fees.

What really fudges up things with Netflix is that it accounts for ~1/3 of all internet traffic during peak hours. No single source (as in company or individual) has ever been responsible for this much bandwidth use before and companies like Comcast and Verizon have a vested interest in being less than enthusiastic with giving their peering agreements more slack to accommodate it.

Even if Comcast and Verizon were willing to work with it, having to dedicate extra resources to accommodate extra traffic mostly from a single source would still require reconsidering the way they build their networks to better accommodate that, which could come at the expense of some of the 2/3 other traffic that usually goes through far more diverse routes. So, even good intentions would still carry significant costs and cause different sets of problems.
jjeffeory

join:2002-12-04
USA

Re: No ones talking about metered bandwidth

I can agree with you on these points. Thing is that Netflix is only "the first", but they're not going to be the last. I feel maybe this is the ISPs preemptive strike against "the rest", and they're also going to be getting into the game which makes it dangerous for them from an anti-trust perspective. It's on reason that I feel that the content creators and the content distributors should be separate. Just my thoughts which other people's opinions are just as valid or even more informed than mine.
InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5

Re: No ones talking about metered bandwidth

said by jjeffeory:

Thing is that Netflix is only "the first"

Netflix will most likely be an exception: it would not be practical for ISPs to start signing up with every minor content distributor on the internet and it would not be feasible for every minor content distributor to do so either.

The main reason Netflix got "forced" into doing direct peering is because Netflix's CDN (Cogent and L3) wanted to stretch their peering agreements with Comcast way too thin. IIRC, Comcast's agreement with Cogent allowed for 1.8:1 asymmetry but Cogent was pushing over 2.5:1 by the time Comcast started asking for compensation.

Direct peering is unlikely to become an issue for anything representing less than 10% of all internet traffic - more trouble and micro-management than it is worth.

I doubt we will ever see more than 3-4 content sources getting nudged towards direct peering the way Netflix has.

fg8578

join:2009-04-26
Salem, OR
said by jjeffeory:

How does this meter work for local phone service? For long distance, yes, there has been a time meter or per minute charge, but for basic service, how does this work. Are we going to be charge per minute? By distance to site, what? Do we get charged when someone pushes unwanted advertising or updates?

Traditional telephone service is unmetered, for the most part.

But there is a "metered" option in many states. It's called "measured" service. You pay by the call, not by the minute. And it only applies to outbound calls, all inbound calls are free. There is no distance factor, as long as your call is considered a "local" call. Obviously, LD charges still apply for LD calls. I think 800 calls are still free, and of course there is no charge for calls to 911.

People typically order measured service when they don't make many calls because it is cheaper than "flat-rated" (i.e., unmetered) local telephone service.

MASTERPIECE

@66.158.58.x
How did you come to that conclusion?