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jlivingood
Premium,VIP
join:2007-10-28
Philadelphia, PA
kudos:2

3 recommendations

reply to nekkidtruth

Re: Im mixed

said by nekkidtruth:

The problem is, Netflix is the only one who's vocal about this issue right now.

Netflix traffic is 1/3 of peak Internet use - it is without precedent, so there's no one really similarly situated.
--
JL
Comcast


nekkidtruth
YISMM
Premium
join:2002-05-20
London, ON
kudos:2
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·Rogers Hi-Speed

said by jlivingood:

Netflix traffic is 1/3 of peak Internet use - it is without precedent, so there's no one really similarly situated.

This is certainly true but there are plenty of things on the horizon that will come pretty close. Game streaming among the top of that list. I just wish others had jumped on board with Netflix in this battle as it will very much effect everyone sooner rather than later.
--
Weeeeeee

Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

10 recommendations

reply to jlivingood

You mean your consumers utilize 1/3 of your bandwidth utilizing a service called Netflix.

I stated before and was ignored by you and I will state it again.

If you do not like the amount of traffic YOUR consumers are using of the resource you are selling them to use, then find a way to discourage that use that is not against NN and is legal.



jlivingood
Premium,VIP
join:2007-10-28
Philadelphia, PA
kudos:2

1 recommendation

reply to nekkidtruth

said by nekkidtruth:

This is certainly true but there are plenty of things on the horizon that will come pretty close. Game streaming among the top of that list. I just wish others had jumped on board with Netflix in this battle as it will very much effect everyone sooner rather than later.

Game streaming I have seen is relatively low bitrate - it is the latency that matters more. I guess we shall see though how that industry continues to develop - maybe that will change.
--
JL
Comcast


nothing00

join:2001-06-10
Centereach, NY

2 recommendations

reply to jlivingood

said by jlivingood:

Netflix traffic is 1/3 of peak Internet use - it is without precedent, so there's no one really similarly situated.

It's completely with precedent. There ALWAYS has been and always will be a top 1/3 of traffic.

If it wasn't Netflix would Comcast try and - uhm - "arrange payment" from the web sites that were in the top 1/3rd? What if it was one web site? What if it was 100?

What if it wasn't a web site but a protocol?

silbaco
Premium
join:2009-08-03
USA
reply to jlivingood

said by jlivingood:

said by nekkidtruth:

This is certainly true but there are plenty of things on the horizon that will come pretty close. Game streaming among the top of that list. I just wish others had jumped on board with Netflix in this battle as it will very much effect everyone sooner rather than later.

Game streaming I have seen is relatively low bitrate - it is the latency that matters more. I guess we shall see though how that industry continues to develop - maybe that will change.

I think he means Twitch.tv, not playing the actual games. Twitch uses a lot of bandwidth, but they also buy transit from many companies including Comcast.


whfsdude
Premium
join:2003-04-05
Washington, DC
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to jlivingood

said by jlivingood:

Game streaming I have seen is relatively low bitrate - it is the latency that matters more. I guess we shall see though how that industry continues to develop - maybe that will change.

Onlive will use 12mbit/s for a 720p stream. This is slightly higher than what I've seen on Netflix for a 1080p stream.

Game streaming likely hasn't been a real traffic driver on networks as the game selection is pretty limited. It should be interesting when the consoles get into game streaming.

Onlive is also using Internap which is a provider that specializes on route optimization. So I suspect they'll continue traffic engineer to the best of their abilities and choose providers/paths that aren't congested.

$ traceroute -I 74.85.146.32
traceroute to 74.85.146.32 (74.85.146.32), 64 hops max, 72 byte packets
 1  192.168.124.1 (192.168.124.1)  0.308 ms  0.141 ms  0.137 ms
 2  ge-2-2-0-32767-sur01.michiganave.dc.bad.comcast.net (50.202.87.153)  0.401 ms  0.394 ms  0.439 ms
 3  ae-19-0-ar04.howardcounty.md.bad.comcast.net (68.85.114.133)  15.427 ms  29.218 ms  88.806 ms
 4  he-3-4-0-0-11-cr01.newyork.ny.ibone.comcast.net (68.86.94.177)  8.366 ms
    he-3-1-0-0-11-cr01.newyork.ny.ibone.comcast.net (68.86.90.165)  11.290 ms
    he-3-3-0-0-11-cr01.newyork.ny.ibone.comcast.net (68.86.91.181)  8.998 ms
 5  he-1-10-0-0-cr01.losangeles.ca.ibone.comcast.net (68.86.86.250)  8.126 ms  8.022 ms  8.066 ms
 6  50-242-151-70-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (50.242.151.70)  8.137 ms  8.068 ms  8.112 ms
 7  ae-7.r23.nycmny01.us.bb.gin.ntt.net (129.250.4.165)  8.033 ms
    ae-1.r23.nycmny01.us.bb.gin.ntt.net (129.250.4.68)  12.866 ms  7.989 ms
 8  * ae-9.r20.asbnva02.us.bb.gin.ntt.net (129.250.2.149)  8.199 ms *
 9  ae-1.r04.asbnva02.us.bb.gin.ntt.net (129.250.3.17)  8.426 ms  8.525 ms  8.291 ms
10  xe-0-2-0-10.r04.asbnva02.us.ce.gin.ntt.net (168.143.97.170)  8.497 ms  8.407 ms  8.459 ms
11  border8.pc1-bbnet1.wdc002.pnap.net (216.52.127.34)  8.336 ms  8.211 ms  8.292 ms
12  onlive-14.border8.wdc002.pnap.net (216.52.125.30)  8.059 ms  7.954 ms  8.095 ms
 


tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to jlivingood

Click for full size
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said by jlivingood:

Game streaming I have seen is relatively low bitrate - it is the latency that matters more

I think a couple graphs from AKAMAI bear this out, thus far the average gaming traffic is far below the media and entertainment average. these are per seconds average flows over the last 24 hours, the month long view shows this as a very consistent stat.

openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
reply to nothing00

said by nothing00:

It's completely with precedent. There ALWAYS has been and always will be a top 1/3 of traffic.

Difference being one entity, content type, or origination of data is responsible for 1/3 of peak traffic.

InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5
reply to nothing00

While there has always been a "top-1/3 of traffic," that top-1/3 of traffic was from dozens if not hundreds of individual companies or millions of individual P2P users scattered around the globe.

In Netflix's case, we are talking about a company single-handedly accounting for 1/3 of all peak-hours traffic. THAT is unprecedented.


BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH
reply to jlivingood

Even easier to screw around with- although I don't see game streaming taking off any time soon. OnLive is pretty cool, but it's seeing limited adoption...


jjeffeory

join:2002-12-04
USA
reply to InvalidError

Yes, I remember when it was P2P traffic that was the evil thing using their tubes. Now it's bad Netflix. lol


sonicmerlin

join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH
kudos:1
reply to InvalidError

said by InvalidError:

While there has always been a "top-1/3 of traffic," that top-1/3 of traffic was from dozens if not hundreds of individual companies or millions of individual P2P users scattered around the globe.

In Netflix's case, we are talking about a company single-handedly accounting for 1/3 of all peak-hours traffic. THAT is unprecedented.

I'm struggling to understand the relevance of your point. Besides your transparent attempt to implicate Netflix as a "bandwidth hog", what difference does it make if internet users spend a third of their paid for bandwidth on Netflix or a million different sites? It doesn't change how much bandwidth the ISPs need to support their networks.

InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5

said by sonicmerlin:

It doesn't change how much bandwidth the ISPs need to support their networks.

It changes the way load gets distributed between existing peers.

Large ISPs usually peer with dozens of other networks and before Netflix, traffic distribution was relatively even across all of them. With Netflix, now you have 1/3 of all load concentrating on whatever peer Netflix signs up with.


nekkidtruth
YISMM
Premium
join:2002-05-20
London, ON
kudos:2
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to silbaco

said by silbaco:

I think he means Twitch.tv, not playing the actual games. Twitch uses a lot of bandwidth, but they also buy transit from many companies including Comcast.

Incorrect. I was not referring to Twitch. I know the difference between streaming a video of gaming and actually streaming a video game. As mentioned below, OnLive is one such service. The point I'm getting at is the future isn't going to magically tone down the amount of streaming of information. Microsoft wants an always on, always connected Xbox. Sony wants the same for their Playstation. I'm sure you get my point.
--
Weeeeeee

silbaco
Premium
join:2009-08-03
USA

said by nekkidtruth:

said by silbaco:

I think he means Twitch.tv, not playing the actual games. Twitch uses a lot of bandwidth, but they also buy transit from many companies including Comcast.

Incorrect. I was not referring to Twitch. I know the difference between streaming a video of gaming and actually streaming a video game. As mentioned below, OnLive is one such service. The point I'm getting at is the future isn't going to magically tone down the amount of streaming of information. Microsoft wants an always on, always connected Xbox. Sony wants the same for their Playstation. I'm sure you get my point.

Well Microsoft and Sony both use 3rd party CDNs or buy paid peering for their own CDNs. And as has been mentioned, OnLive uses internap. So no, I don't get your point.


nekkidtruth
YISMM
Premium
join:2002-05-20
London, ON
kudos:2
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·Rogers Hi-Speed

Oh you get the point, you're just intentionally being thick. My point was very clear and very valid. You're welcome to ignore it or stick your fingers in your ears but it doesn't make the truth go away. Data usage is only getting higher and the ISP's will either need provide the pipes to do it, or fail.
--
Weeeeeee



KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
reply to InvalidError

I was under the impression that Netflix has signed up with and peered with many networks and peering providers.


InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5

1 recommendation

They do.

While both Netflix and Comcast have multiple peers or transit providers, they may not have that many in common and the relative routing costs between available options may also be substantially different. If one set of routes through a specific peer has lower routing costs than all other possible routes between the two networks, practically all traffic between the two go down those lower-cost routes regardless of whatever other routes might be available.



KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

Exactly. It's also worth mentioning again thet Netflix offers ISP's an almost zero cost solution to avoid traffic logjams on their peering providers by a direct CDN. Only the most greedy of ISP's refuse this and demand additional troll tolls for Netflix to do something THAT IS IN BOTH THEIR INTERESTS.

They refuse to accept responsibility for the traffic demand their users generate (and that they are PAID to deliver.)
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini


BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH

Exactly.