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gaforces (banned)
United We Stand, Divided We Fall
join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA

gaforces (banned) to cowboyro

Member

to cowboyro

Re: [Electrical] Small solar system

said by cowboyro:

Anything produced during the day that is not being used is lost.

That, I believe, is the only true statement of your post.
I'm sorry but you should read about how MPPT solar controllers work.
lutful
... of ideas
Premium Member
join:2005-06-16
Ottawa, ON

lutful

Premium Member

said by gaforces:

said by cowboyro:

Anything produced during the day that is not being used is lost.

That, I believe, is the only true statement of your post.
I'm sorry but you should read about how MPPT solar controllers work.

Once again, you are insulting someone who can actually design a better MPPT controller for your system. Read the rest of his post carefully because they are all true.

a) MPPT method does not magically increase how much energy falls on your panels. The numbers he calculated are optimistic for 400W horizontal panels during winter months.
b) You can't store more than 60% of the rated capacity of your batteries if you want long life.
gaforces (banned)
United We Stand, Divided We Fall
join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA

gaforces (banned)

Member

You still haven't backed up what you've been posting, instead you make luticris accusations of insult which are not helpful (or yet true). Hope you liked the pun.

If he can design a better system for a lower price, or you can, PLEASE post specifications and links.

imlost
@69.118.94.x

imlost

Anon

I'm a little lost here what is not backed up? You are going to lose money on this deal. It will be cheaper to pay the poco than use your system... unless your power rates are like 3$/kwh.
lutful
... of ideas
Premium Member
join:2005-06-16
Ottawa, ON

1 edit

lutful to gaforces

Premium Member

to gaforces
said by gaforces:

You still haven't backed up what you've been posting, instead you make luticris accusations of insult.

That is ludicrous, or foolish, unreasonable, or out of place as to be amusing, ... and I highlighted a perfect example above.

I have posted lots of useful information about solar panel and battery sizing, charging, MPPT controllers, inverters, etc. in the past 10 years. I have also seen lots of useful posts from cowboyro See Profile in home improvement and electronics forum.

Search result using only "solar" keyword after you click my username: »/nsear ··· t6369309

Many of those threads deal with "small solar system" design. If you really came for suggestions, please have a look at such threads.

But if you came to push panels from Renogy Amazon store, I have to let others know that they are CERTAINLY NOT "re-badged" SunPower. Genuine SunPower panels use Maxeon back-contact cells which have no electrical connections on the top face.

*** Have a look at the diagram for Meanwell TN-1500 in »Re: question on how I would be able to wire up an UPS

FYI that single module replaces both charge controller and inverter ... plus you can also hook it up to a generator. There is also a 3000W model.

I will suggest connecting 4 batteries in series for 48V input to increase system efficiency at heavy current usage.

You can mount as many as 6 SunPower 115W semi-flexible panels around the obstruction in the middle of the van's roof. They are really light and thin, and can be applied directly to cleaned roof surface.

Check prices on your own.
gaforces (banned)
United We Stand, Divided We Fall
join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA

gaforces (banned) to imlost

Member

to imlost
If the system can put out 20 amp in the sun then it is worth it to be able to use my tools at remote jobs or anywhere there is no power and without having to start my motor. Do you know how long it takes to build a house using hand tools?
I have also run out of gas on the way home from a long 2 1/2 hr. drive in stop n go traffic.

I have lived through 2 earthquakes where power was out for weeks.
Don't think I wont run a line to my bedroom to see if I can do it and utilize the power..
lutful
... of ideas
Premium Member
join:2005-06-16
Ottawa, ON

lutful

Premium Member

said by gaforces:

If the system can put out 20 amp in the sun then it is worth it to be able to use my tools at remote jobs or anywhere there is no power and without having to start my motor.

Can you elaborate on how much power you actually need and for how long?

voltage=120V
current=20A ???
total hours per day=
gaforces (banned)
United We Stand, Divided We Fall
join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA

3 edits

gaforces (banned) to lutful

Member

to lutful
I am sorry your posts have not been useful in this thread.
You made a vague suggestion about a 435w sunpower for $419.

(Removed suspected scammer advertising on ebay that I quoted for clarification)

You say Im pushing renogy panels which is false. I don't care what you use, they just happen to be what I am using. You seem to dislike renogy panels, can I ask why? I haven't heard anything bad but shipping damage.
said by lutful:

That is ludicrous, or foolish, unreasonable, or out of place as to be amusing, ... and I highlighted a perfect example above.

I have posted lots of useful information about solar panel and battery sizing, charging, MPPT controllers, inverters, etc. in the past 10 years. I have also seen lots of useful posts from cowboyro See Profile in home improvement and electronics forum.

Search result using only "solar" keyword after you click my username: »/nsear ··· t6369309

Many of those threads deal with "small solar system" design. If you really came for suggestions, please have a look at such threads.

But if you came to push panels from Renogy Amazon store, I have to let others know that they are CERTAINLY NOT "re-badged" SunPower. Genuine SunPower panels use Maxeon back-contact cells which have no electrical connections on the top face.


snappypoo
@69.118.94.x

snappypoo to gaforces

Anon

to gaforces
said by gaforces:

If the system can put out 20 amp in the sun then it is worth it to be able to use my tools at remote jobs or anywhere there is no power and without having to start my motor.

I left out the part where you got snappy talking about hand tools... okay you want to output 20 amps, now you left out the voltage you want the 20 amps at...

I can only guess 120v...

So you need 2400 watts worth of solar, not accounting for lose, and that fact you will pretty much never be at 100% So say 3000watts of panels to get your 20 amps to be "worth it"

Okay great I can't wait to see your reply now.
gaforces (banned)
United We Stand, Divided We Fall
join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA

3 edits

gaforces (banned) to lutful

Member

to lutful
2 1/2 hours till break time of 10 min, 2 and 1/2 hours till lunch of 1/2 hour so on for 8 hours or so. I hardly ever work more than 2 1/2 hours without resting eating and drinking anymore.
I had time to read your posts for a while, you mention high end stuff that is expensive.
Is the reason you don't like those panels is they are too cheap?

BTW those 435w panels your pushing are crap. 6.5 amp for a 7 foot panel? What a joke. It's pretty slick how you so nonchalantly enter the thread, and mock me for not buying a panel that is obviously obsolete. I don't want to buy your Snake Oil.
gaforces

1 edit

gaforces (banned) to snappypoo

Member

to snappypoo
Yes I get snappy when people basically calling me stupid and wasting money. And then I don't talk to them any longer, life is too short.
Reminds me of a good story!
This manager of a local surfshop sells 500-1200 dollar surfboards, 200 dollar watches, 600 dollar wetsuits etc etc all day long.
Welp some years back a guy made a deal to sell surfboards to Costco, they sold a lot for cheap, undercut everyone on price by quite a margin.
That manager, he shit talked those Costco boards to everyone, after a while with peer pressure he got most locals hating those boards, you would be ridiculed if you were seen with one.
HAH THE IRONY, that guy who did the costco deal got a contract with the surfshop that manager works at, so now he has to sell them.
lutful
... of ideas
Premium Member
join:2005-06-16
Ottawa, ON

lutful to gaforces

Premium Member

to gaforces
said by gaforces:

BTW those 435w panels your pushing are crap. 6.5 amp for a 7 foot panel? What a joke. It's pretty slick how you so nonchalantly enter the thread, and mock me for not buying a panel that is obviously obsolete. I don't want to buy your Snake Oil.

At some point you will figure out that Watts=Amps x Volts. FYI exact same size panel that produces 20A at 18V is producing only 18VX20A=360W in full sun, a whopping 75W less than 435W panel.

SunPower has been setting efficiency records since they started production. This is their latest model and getting 435W from a single 7x4 ft panel is the current world record!

You can easily swear to NEVER EVER buy SunPower panels! But others may want to know about it in a public forum. So please stop the insults.
said by gaforces:

2 1/2 hours till break time of 10 min, 2 and 1/2 hours till lunch of 1/2 hour so on for 8 hours or so. I hardly ever work more than 2 1/2 hours without resting eating and drinking anymore.

So you are looking to power your tools for at least 5 hours per day?

Multiply the average AC amps of your tools by 120V and 5 hours to get an idea of how many Watt-Hours do your solar panels need to provide each day?

If you do those calculations right, you may realize that your idea is hopeless on our planet.
Expand your moderator at work
gaforces (banned)
United We Stand, Divided We Fall
join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA

2 edits

gaforces (banned) to snappypoo

Member

to snappypoo

Re: [Electrical] Small solar system

Click for full size
I've found the fuse placements and formulae and it looks like the battery's shipped early and will arrive around end of the week. This pic is for PWM controller but I don't think that's an issue.
gaforces

1 edit

1 recommendation

gaforces (banned) to snappypoo

Member

to snappypoo
I knew it would controversial to post about solar, but dammm, so many solar denyers.
The solar snobs are the worst, they will hold back the world for years with their greed.

Jack_in_VA
Premium Member
join:2007-11-26
North, VA

Jack_in_VA

Premium Member

said by gaforces:

I knew it would controversial to post about solar, but dammm, so many solar denyers.
The solar snobs are the worst, they will hold back the world for years with their greed.

So anyone who doesn't agree with you elicits a label solar snob?

cowboyro
Premium Member
join:2000-10-11
CT

cowboyro to gaforces

Premium Member

to gaforces
said by gaforces:

I knew it would controversial to post about solar, but dammm, so many solar denyers.
The solar snobs are the worst, they will hold back the world for years with their greed.

Solar works, but it doesn't pay off everywhere. It only pays off where there is good exposure throughout the year, the utility rates are high, and any excess production can be sold to the utility co. using net metering rates. And even then the break-even period is 10-15 years if nothing breaks.
lutful
... of ideas
Premium Member
join:2005-06-16
Ottawa, ON

lutful to Jack_in_VA

Premium Member

to Jack_in_VA
Click for full size
Click for full size
said by Jack_in_VA:

said by gaforces:

I knew it would controversial to post about solar, but dammm, so many solar denyers.
The solar snobs are the worst, they will hold back the world for years with their greed.

So anyone who doesn't agree with you elicits a label solar snob?

The irony is that he was taking a shot at a person who has been bringing solar power to some really amazing projects including these mobile community centres and schools in my home country.

Jack_in_VA
Premium Member
join:2007-11-26
North, VA

1 recommendation

Jack_in_VA

Premium Member

You didn't agree with him. The positive things you have done is not in consideration.

mackey
Premium Member
join:2007-08-20

mackey to gaforces

Premium Member

to gaforces
said by gaforces:

I knew it would controversial to post about solar, but dammm, so many solar denyers.
The solar snobs are the worst, they will hold back the world for years with their greed.

Or perhaps they've had years of experience dealing with solar and know that what a real world panel actually puts out isn't close to what an ideal panel can theoretically put out. If you're basing everything on the numbers marketing slapped on the panels then you're going to be seriously disappointed with their output esp. with them laying flat on your vans' roof.
ke4pym
Premium Member
join:2004-07-24
Charlotte, NC

ke4pym to lutful

Premium Member

to lutful
said by lutful:

At some point you will figure out that Watts=Amps x Volts. FYI exact same size panel that produces 20A at 18V is producing only 18VX20A=360W in full sun, a whopping 75W less than 435W panel.

And only when the panel is brand new. Output decreases as the panel ages. Some more than others, some less than others.
gaforces (banned)
United We Stand, Divided We Fall
join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA

gaforces (banned) to Jack_in_VA

Member

to Jack_in_VA
Never said that and don't believe that, but whatever.
gaforces

1 edit

gaforces (banned) to lutful

Member

to lutful
said by lutful:

The irony is that he was taking a shot at a person who has been bringing solar power to some really amazing projects including these mobile community centres and schools in my home country.

This is your rational for trying to sell overpriced crap with no warranty, even after I told you 3 times I wasn't interested?
You omitted the truth and ignored a potential customer, shame on you, since you actually do know better.
lutful
... of ideas
Premium Member
join:2005-06-16
Ottawa, ON

1 edit

lutful

Premium Member

This is a public forum and many different suggestions are provided to help the original poster and also others who may come across this thread with a similar problem.

I will summarize my suggestions for both you and future readers:

Because you are working with limited space on roof of a van, first I pointed out that a single SunPower 435W panel exists which is smaller than your 4x100W panels and is also cheaper.

You later explained it would not "fit" because a vent in the middle of roof. So I pointed out that perhaps 6 of the SunPower semi-flex panels - same ones on the Ford car - can be stuck around the vent on the van's roof. Obviously that would give you even more power - almost double of the 4x100W panels.

Then I pointed out that (MeanWell TN-1500 or TN-3000) has everything else you need: the MPPT charger, the inverter, and even the transfer switch inside same compact box. I linked to a relevant thread.

*** SunPower, a very successful US company, with significant presence in Canada makes the most efficient commercial solar panels and also introduced the longest warranty in the industry.

warranty: »global.sunpower.com/prod ··· arranty/
efficiency: »cleantechnica.com/2014/0 ··· ficient/

SunPower solar modules hold the commercial solar module efficiency record. ... other SunPower solar modules come in #2 and #3 in those tests.

If you are limited in total area, you should consider SunPower and if you are concerned about total weight AND total area, you should consider SunPower semi-flex panels. If your budget allows them, please buy from a dealer in USA or Canada.
gaforces (banned)
United We Stand, Divided We Fall
join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA

1 recommendation

gaforces (banned)

Member

I was pretty clear I had already purchased panels, and everything else but battery's and a cabinet on my first post.

You alluded to a cheap panel on ebay, well I wasted my time looking at that panel.
That company magma solar usa is non-existent except for ebay.
The warranty is illegal in California.
They removed the sunpower branding, and sunpower does not warrant them.
That person Marc at ebay supposedly doing business as magma solar usa will not give shipping price unless you call him long distance.
He will not say what brand or model controller he says he has for $275, except if you call him. There are none on his other auctions.

And lastly, I challenge you to build that system from Marc with that panel with your sodium lithium ion battery's and his imaginary controller for a price close to the US $2400.00 that is equal or greater output of Amperage. That includes the battery bank.

I am confidant this system I am building will put out more amperage than that pos system you specced.
I am going to dedicate my do it yerself with basic electronics small solar system writeup to you and the others on this thread, and maybe my Amazon review as well!
I will clean up the schematic with the final product specs and if anyone wants the parts list I will make one and send by IM if requested.
said by lutful:

...

gaforces

gaforces (banned) to mackey

Member

to mackey
said by mackey:

with them laying flat on your vans' roof

You are correct, I did consider the tilt mounts, just the expense right now I need to recover from this one. I should be recovered by Christmas