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tshirt
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join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA

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tshirt

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let's see, what happened around 2009...

... that shook the financial markets and caused many industries to reduce investment levels...? Hmm? Nope nothing clear sailing , employment skyrocketing, consumer spending were all fine until the cablecos destroyed the economy, right Karl?
that whole bailout, housing crisis, recession/depression thing was just a coverup for a telecommunication sectors cash grab?
Is that what you're trying to say?
Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

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Skippy25

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Regadless, it was $5 billion less over a 5 year period compared to 4 and the cable and phone companies still made out like bandits during this time.

ptrowski
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Woodstock, CT

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So what was their response? Raise rates 2-3 times a year and add on junk below the price fees? Sorry, I have a hard time feeling sorry for them.

tshirt
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join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA

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tshirt

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said by ptrowski:

Sorry, I have a hard time feeling sorry for them.

Fortunately they don't need your condolences BECAUSE they adjusted to the changing conditions.
The downside is part of the adjustment was a lower rate of reinvestment in expanded plant.
I don't know which cableco raised BROADBAND prices 2-3 time a year, even the CATV side is once a year in most cases.

Karl writes it as if in the middle of otherwise neutral or even positive growth in every other sector the cablecos packed up and stopped all investment, rather then the 12 billion plus (still a fairly healthy number) under very uncertain conditions in all sectors.
It sort of overshadows the real danger of curtailing the next 4-5 years of investment by pushing utility status.

Look at the investment patterns in other utilities, which aim for stability over growth reinvest no more than 3-4 % with a 10% after tax yield and a 3-6% regular dividend. great for retired folks wanting a steady income. and can provide standard basic service at rates generally higher than the open market
their is little incentive to do anything risky or expand at a rapid rate.

For the same monthly cost less unrestricted company has great incentive to expand, innovate, find and build new desirable services.
We do need regulation with long term goals and costs that a business can plan for and to equalize the playing field for competitors WITHOUT loading unnecessary cost on customers or pointless burdens on the providers.
You certain won't encourage more investment by chanting "less RoI, more excessive regulation and risk" over and over.

nothing00
join:2001-06-10
Centereach, NY

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said by tshirt:

Fortunately they don't need your condolences BECAUSE they adjusted to the changing conditions.

If the global recession is to blame for reduced investment what's the excuse for the rest of the world continuing to outclass the US at an ever increasing pace?

ieolus
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Danbury, CT

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This is bunk tshirt. THE time to invest in infrustructure is exactly when the economy is at the lowest. Labor is cheaper, materials are cheaper... you can basically construct a network at 1/2 the cost than during boom times.

tshirt
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join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA

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said by nothing00:

If the global recession is to blame for reduced investment what's the excuse for the rest of the world continuing to outclass the US at an ever increasing pace?

different taxes, different laws, different stimulus, and momentum , if you notice in the Akamai and other worldwide deployment reports the US is NOW rapidly catching up both in speed and availability.
But these results are due to the $45billion plus over the last decade and because the US is a very large place getting from point a to b is a long trip then driving across south korea or Singapore, or many most European countries either by car or network infrastructure build out, and we still have a long way, many more dollars to spend in order to reach the rest of the country.
How quickly we get there is highly dependent on more investment $$$, and that depends on consumer patterns and gov't regulation allowing a favorable outlook to develop/convincing INVESTORS that the return is there. (not a bubble but a fairly reliable longterm RoI)

JakCrow
join:2001-12-06
Palo Alto, CA

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Except the companies involved have been hoarding billions in cash and prizes, especially from the pockets of rate and tax payers

tshirt
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join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA

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it would be IF you can find the money, something that was highly curtailed, unless backed by a gov't guarantees, and at the time the full faith and credit was going to save/bailout our largest industries> banking, auto, construction, etc. and to prop up an already overburdened safety net.

so once you feed (most of) the people and make sure (most of them) they had a place to sleep, and some of them had a place to work, it was pretty hard to say the next thing worth borrowing from the Chinese for was to bury strands of glass in the ground (the invest community does somewhat remember doing that at the end of the DOT com oops, and that it turned into the most expensive network never used ? (if someone had actually paid debt service on full cost of all the darkfiber and subtract all that ended up unusable, holding diamonds would be cheaper) )
Right now is the time in the cycle the money is becoming available, construction costs are still fairly low, end product demand is high, disposable income should be rising within the correct time frame, it's just a matter of convincing the right people to move and that means broadband at the US market price is something you WILL buy before 4k (or maybe in addition to) or a new car or a better house)
And that is hard er then it sounds because most broadband is sold month to month not on the 3 year (car) 6 year (appliance/paint/etc.(home improvement) 15,20,30 years( new house/ retirement/ college for 3 kids) it may take to pay off a constantly updating last mile at a 30-40% take rate.
IF someone had 30 years exclusive rights for free to a given area, and KNEW no upcoming technology would make their plant worth less, and KKNEW that 80+% of the homes would find a way to work those few extra hours a month to use them as an ISP at say $100 a month, fiber to the home would be a no brainer across most of the US
Since those conditions don't exist and nobody KNOWS all those unknowable knowns, it's a bit more complex.
sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH

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You have an excuse for everything. It was noted multiple times in the past but their revenue and profit actually kept going up during the crisis, along with price increases. Nor does the recession excuse explain why investment has been dropping the last couple of years when the economy has been improving.

ptrowski
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When Comcast's David Cohen states "The impact on customer bills is always hard to quantify," Cohen said. "We're certainly not promising that customer bills are going to go down or even increase less rapidly" that doesn't make your skin crawl?
How about increases on that modem or cable box you rent always going up? How about the Broadcast TV Fee or the Sports Fee? Comcast raised their rates by 5.8 percent.

"The company's new rates reflect efforts to squeeze more money out of both camps.
On the broadband front, Time Warner's Lite Internet service will now cost $37.99 a month, Basic Internet will be $47.99 and Standard Internet will be $57.99. But, frustratingly, the company neglects to say on its notice to customers what the former prices were.
Dennis Johnson, a Time Warner Cable spokesman, said the company is required by regulators to provide such information for some fees, but Internet rates aren't one of them.
So Time Warner kept the size of the rate hikes to itself. What it apparently doesn't want people to know is that the increase for each Internet tier adds $3 to monthly bills.
That means the 11.1 million broadband customers Time Warner had as of Dec. 31 could be coughing up an extra $33.3 million in monthly revenue, or nearly $400 million a year, depending on their service plan.
Meanwhile, the company's 11.4 million TV subscribers will face an array of higher charges. The monthly cost of set-top boxes and digital video recorders, for example, will rise to $11.25 from $10.
That 12.5% increase will produce more than $14 million a month in additional revenue, or almost $170 million a year.
Johnson said the higher price for boxes reflects "investments to improve customers' experience," including revamped guide and search functions." Ah yes, increase the rates and increase the "customer experience". If that experience includes being dogged repeatedly than oh what joy.
All these bills being passed to forbid municipality build outs, increased rates and BS fees are how these companies have been operating in an unregulated environment. I am not a regulation fiend, but this free for all they have had for years at the expense of the users and their wallets needs to end.

nothing00
join:2001-06-10
Centereach, NY

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I'm with you on the first sentence but that's about it. That's right, other countries are trying to create value for the country.

It's a "big place" isn't a valid excuse. Long haul is not a problem here. Wiring every little farm house - okay - there's a point there. But what's the excuse for New York City then? There's this universal excuse that the rest of the world is in some sort of Goldilocks zone that the US as a whole or in parts doesn't share any of the same qualities of. Which, naturally, is laughable.

tshirt
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join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA

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said by ptrowski:

When Comcast's David Cohen states "The impact on customer bills is always hard to quantify," Cohen said. "We're certainly not promising that customer bills are going to go down or even increase less rapidly" that doesn't make your skin crawl?

When it comes to content for CATV, it seems really honest of him to admit that they don't control that cost.
the HSI increases have been fairly modest and understandable in the 10 years I've had comcast.
said by ptrowski:

How about increases on that modem or cable box you rent always going up? How about the Broadcast TV Fee or the Sports Fee? Comcast raised their rates by 5.8 percent

I've always owned my own modem (at my own risk) to avoid the modem fees but I do understand that new/replacement equipment does cost them more.
The broadcast fee for locals should be in limited basic cable ( but ONLY represent the actual local cost for carrying those local stations (I'd like to see/ "must carry/don't carry" be the only choices with no fees involved) and the sports fee (not levied separately here) would send me back to limited basic (probably going there next month anyway) or to HSI only.
TV other than local news means little to me, is a luxury, and in no way deserves special "utility protection.
HSI might get there, but users need to be very careful when they play that card, cause it will change things in way people don't seem to comprehend.
Unless you are happy with what you have now (more or less) and don't expect to need anything much more in perpetuity(at your current or future locations) don't touch that button.

ieolus
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said by sonicmerlin:

You have an excuse for everything. It was noted multiple times in the past but their revenue and profit actually kept going up during the crisis, along with price increases. Nor does the recession excuse explain why investment has been dropping the last couple of years when the economy has been improving.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

tshirt
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join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA

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said by nothing00:

But what's the excuse for New York City then?

you may notice FiOS at work, and a lot of cable deals.
but that is also the poster child why a lot of US regulation doesn't work. one company stuck between the landlords (wanting payment for access) and the city gov't (wanting payment for RoW access, etc.etc. and sharing the potential market with one or more other companies facing the same restraints.

rather than encouraging equal, easy access to multiple highspeed options and charging ONLY for actual city expenses, the gov't is being a direct cause of major/excessive expenses and helping create some of the road blocks that slow the process.

Not the same as say Korea or the Netherlands where plenty of RoW is gov't owned (a luxury of massive infrastructure rebuilding post WW2) leads to the buildings which are encouraged/required to prewire to a central access point.
so building in NYC (basic RoW corridors laid out as much as 300 years ago and patch worked ever since. and in rural everywhere else both have big challenges (few subs per ISP vs few subs per mile), high expense, and NO consistent long term regulation to rely on for the payoff period.
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said by JakCrow:

Except the companies involved have been hoarding billions in cash and prizes, especially from the pockets of rate and tax payers

and so they should now give it to you?
Save the rhetoric for the next teaparty (or whatever) rally.

even if you could successfully prove some illegitimate payment or slush fund (which I doubt) the chance of you personally, or the general public recovering more than the cost of a cheeseburger is extremely remote.
Unless you are willing to look at/work with what exists TODAY, you will be sitting and complaining about that same stuff for the rest of your life with absolutely no benefit to getting the best available broadband to the most people at the best price ASAP.
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said by sonicmerlin:

You have an excuse for everything.

There is careful reasoning behind my opinions, not an excuse since I was not at fault for the crisis.
said by sonicmerlin:

but their revenue and profit actually kept going up during the crisis, along with price increases.

Corporate team (board, ceo, cfo, etc) facing a crisis may choose to be excessively prudent, cut harder , stay low a little longer then absolutely need and even attempt to put something in the bank, to be in good shape whenever it does turn around.
while not as aggressive as the "next quarters results" method, it is often better MANAGEMENT then being one payment short of solvency when recovery happens.
said by sonicmerlin:

Nor does the recession excuse explain why investment has been dropping the last couple of years when the economy has been improving.

Glad life has been so easy in Cleveland the last couple years, much of America/the world hasn't quite reach that level of confidence yet, but we can see light.
ITGeeks
join:2014-04-20
Cleveland, OH

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It's always the cable companies. And any company not willing to deploy fiber to a handful of people with no real numbers on who's signing up or on munis and the money they spend and will spend more and more when content prices keep going up.
sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH

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Your excuses are really something. If the ISPs were being "prudent" they wouldn't have jacked up rates beyond the level of inflation in the midst of the recession all the way until the present. They wouldn't have spent tens of billions of dollars on gigantic, industry consolidating the way Comcast did with NBC and is now doing with Time Warner Cable, and AT&T tried with t-mobile and sprint is doing with t-mobile.

In fact just recently there was news of AT&T trying to buy DirectTV for $49 billion. And let's not forget the generous dividends AT&T paid to shareholders throughout the recession.

Those are the actions of companies in an intensely noncompetitive industry. It's no surprise they would drop investment to increase profits. They don't have to worry about competition.
jjeffeory
jjeffeory
join:2002-12-04
Bloomington, IN

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Great point!
jjeffeory

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FiOS isn't available everywhere in New York, let alone NYC. I know someone who just moved from NYC and had to use TWC. They paid for 100/5 service and got this: »www.speedtest.net/my-res ··· 58002461

IN NYC!

Now they just moved to Maine of all places, gave TWC but pay for 50/2 and got a much better speed test closer to what they pay for.

annonymiss
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ESPN raises rates to the cable companies by 20% per year.
You are complaining about the wrong companies.
n0ym
join:2004-12-21
Montgomery Village, MD

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said by tshirt:

said by JakCrow:

Except the companies involved have been hoarding billions in cash and prizes, especially from the pockets of rate and tax payers

and so they should now give it to you?

Who said anything about them "giving their money away"?

You implied the downturn in investment was due to a bad economy. The logical (and accurate) rebuttal to your claim was that they were hoarding cash, and therefore were able to continue to invest. You're changing the subject, instead of addressing the issue.
n0ym

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Exactly. Kind of hard to keep up that "hunkered down" image, crafted to excuse the lack of investment which was actually the result of deregulation and monopoly rights, when they weren't actually hunkered down.