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siljaline
I'm lovin' that double wide
Premium
join:2002-10-12
Montreal, QC
kudos:17
Reviews:
·Bell Sympatico

1 recommendation

Mozilla agrees to add DRM support to Firefox

quote:
Mozilla has announced that it will add Encrypted Media Extensions (EME) for digital rights management into a future build of Firefox, even if the organization disagrees with the technology on principle.

The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C) is to add EME into the specifications for HTML5 at the behest of Microsoft, Google, and Netflix. Sir Tim Berners-Lee supports the move, but Mozilla had been objecting to the plans as technically unnecessary. However, it has decided to cave.
»www.theregister.co.uk/2014/05/14···protest/


antdude
A Ninja Ant
Premium,VIP
join:2001-03-25
United State
kudos:4

Boo!!!



EUS
Kill cancer
Premium
join:2002-09-10
canada
reply to siljaline

Not much of a choice was there?
Techdirt has this running as well.



Steve
I know your IP address
Consultant
join:2001-03-10
Foothill Ranch, CA
kudos:5
reply to antdude

said by antdude:

Boo!!!

What would you have them do? How does this hurt you?


aussiedog

join:2007-01-10
Colorado Springs, CO
reply to siljaline

"The W3C spec requires the use of proprietary Content Decryption Modules, which is one of Mozilla's big objections to the system. Gal said that Mozilla would reluctantly use Adobe's CDM system, but it would have to be software that users download and it won't be built into Firefox directly."

Apparently the end user makes the choice. I can accept that.
--
If I can only find my keys...


OZO
Premium
join:2003-01-17
kudos:2

1 recommendation

I hope they will offer a simple way to remove it...
--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...



siljaline
I'm lovin' that double wide
Premium
join:2002-10-12
Montreal, QC
kudos:17
Reviews:
·Bell Sympatico
reply to Steve

Mozilla mourned its own actions in a blog post:

quote:
We deeply, deeply want to move the industry to a different solution where each one of us remains our own authority over our computers and our lives. We’re engaging on both the content and the technology sides to explore new technologies and welcome everyone who’s interested to work on alternative solutions.
Since Chrome’s rise, Mozilla has hardly any weight to thrown around. Other browser vendors have already signed on for native DRM support, and if Mozilla doesn’t play along, Firefox could gradually become useless for users of streaming video and audio services. Hypothetically, it would mean that Web goers would have to choose between Firefox and Netflix — or Hulu, or Spotify. Firefox doesn’t stand a chance against Game of Thrones.

Mozilla’s temporary solution is to make DRM implementation an option in Firefox. In addition, Mozilla details that it has “surrounded the closed-source portion with an open-source wrapper,” which allows it to “monitor and better understand the scope of activities of the closed-source code.”


Dude111
An Awesome Dude
Premium
join:2003-08-04
USA
kudos:12
reply to OZO

quote:
I hope they will offer a simple way to remove it...
There is an easy way to avoid this....... DO NOT UPGRADE TO THE VERSION THAT HAS THIS CRAP!!


siljaline
I'm lovin' that double wide
Premium
join:2002-10-12
Montreal, QC
kudos:17
Reviews:
·Bell Sympatico
reply to OZO

Re: Mozilla agrees to add DRM support to Firefox

Hoping so as well -- bit it would seem Mozilla is plowing ahead with DRM.
Reconciling Mozilla’s Mission and W3C EME
»hacks.mozilla.org/2014/05/reconc···w3c-eme/

quote:
Digital Rights Management (DRM) is a tricky issue. On the one hand content owners argue that they should have the technical ability to control how users share content in order to enforce copyright restrictions. On the other hand, the current generation of DRM is often overly burdensome for users and restricts users from lawful and reasonable use cases such as buying content on one device and trying to consume it on another.

OZO
Premium
join:2003-01-17
kudos:2

2 recommendations

I don't see two hands here. With DRM it's either user has full control over his own computer or content provider has full control over user's computer. There is nothing in the middle... The rest is a fog, created around it. If you don't believe me, ask those who push/develop DRM.
--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...



Steve
I know your IP address
Consultant
join:2001-03-10
Foothill Ranch, CA
kudos:5

said by OZO:

With DRM it's either user has full control over his own computer or content provider has full control over user's computer. There is nothing in the middle...

Of course there is.

The content providers don't care about your computer, they care about their content: if there is a vehicle that allows them to share content with you on their terms - say, you have to pay for it, or you can't share it with others, etc. - then they're good with that.

By my understanding of this new Mozilla initiative, the protected content plays in a sandbox with very limited access to anything else; its only job is to let you consume the protected content.

Why is that controversial?

Those who don't care about consuming protected content need not involve themselves in DRM at all.

Steve
--
Stephen J. Friedl | Unix Wizard | Security Consultant | KA8CMY | Southern California USA | my web site

OZO
Premium
join:2003-01-17
kudos:2

DRM is a protection mechanism (first of all from computer user), that requires full control over computer. Otherwise one can debug, reverse-engineer, analyze content, virtualize protection channel and eventually create tools to redirect that content as he needs. The same way as some run latest Windows OS without activation. Old say - what is "protected" by one software solution can be "opened" with another software solution... Full confidence in DRM could be achieved only if computer owner can't do those things. That's why companies, developing DRM (e.g. MS), are pushing "Secure Boot" - to get computer under their full control.

said by Steve:

Those who don't care about consuming protected content need not involve themselves in DRM at all.

Good advice to follow
--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...


chachazz
Premium
join:2003-12-14
kudos:9
Reviews:
·TELUS
reply to siljaline

DRM and the Challenge of Serving Users
Mitchell Baker - Chair, Mozilla Foundation

quote:
Despite our dislike of DRM, we have come to believe Firefox needs to provide a mechanism for people to watch DRM-controlled content. We will do so in a way that protects the interests of individual users as much as possible, given what the rest of the industry has already put into place. We have selected Adobe to provide the key functionality. Adobe has been doing this in Flash for some time, and Adobe has been building the necessary relationships with the content owners. We believe that Adobe is uniquely able to bring new value to the setting.

We have designed mechanisms to protect the user as much as possible. We do not view this work as fixing the core problems with DRM. We do however view this design as a step forward from DRM implementations that are unchecked in their scope. For example:

• Each person will be able to decide whether to activate the DRM implementation or to leave it off and not watch DRM-controlled content.

• We have surrounded the closed-source portion with an open-source wrapper. This allows us to monitor and better understand the scope of activities of the closed-source code.
continue reading (FAQ with more information)
--
Gladiator Security Forum


neochu

join:2008-12-12
Windsor, ON
reply to siljaline

Sadly as long as BIG media wants its DRM its a pay to play type of scenario.

HTML 5's media integration will never be implemented without the acceptance of this. Its an un-winnable battle.

Firefox really had no choice on the issue if they wished to remain relevant (though the whole Version 29.0.1 interface lockout made me jump to palemoon).

Its promising to see though that they are doing what they can to make it an option as to wither you wish to enable HTML 5 media (DRM or nothing) or not in your browser and educating the user on the issue.


Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5

said by neochu:

Its promising to see though that they are doing what they can to make it an option as to wither you wish to enable HTML 5 media (DRM or nothing)

I thought this was for control over Hollywood movies primarily. I thought our monitors already controlled for DRM....my new one does...my older one from 2003 does not. So, why is this needed for DRM?

Are you saying ALL HTML5 video is now DRMed? You can't say no to this and still watch the "My Cat Saved my Son" video on youtube? That one plays in Flash (so not a good example but I just watched it so it's on my mind) but most videos at youtube play in HTML5 and Flash is going away soon. So, all videos at youtube will be DRMed?

--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson


DrDrew
That others may surf
Premium
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
kudos:15

1 recommendation

No it's not for all videos, it's just for ones which the owner doesn't "want" copied. This is one reason Netflix uses Silverlight over HTML5 on many platforms. Silverlight has DRM available, HTML5 doesn't on all browsers.

The DRM for your monitor is just between your PC and monitor. Some DRM content won't play unless that last link is protected as well. Higher security DRM wants end to end protection, with no weak links in the middle, for it to be effective.
--
---You cannot fix a problem that you refuse to acknowledge.



siljaline
I'm lovin' that double wide
Premium
join:2002-10-12
Montreal, QC
kudos:17
Reviews:
·Bell Sympatico
reply to neochu

Can This Web Be Saved? Mozilla Accepts DRM, and We All Lose

quote:
It's official: the last holdout for the open web has fallen. Flanked on all sides by Google, Microsoft, Opera, and (it appears) Safari's support and promotion of the EME DRM-in-HTML standard, Mozilla is giving in to pressure from Hollywood, Netflix, et al, and will be implementing its own third-party version of DRM. It will be rolled out in Desktop Firefox later this year. Mozilla's CTO, Andreas Gal, says that Mozilla "has little choice." Mozilla's Chair, Mitchell Baker adds, "Mozilla cannot change the industry on DRM at this point."
»www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/05/mo···-and-drm

quote:
Future versions of the open-source Firefox browser will include closed-source digital rights management (DRM) from Adobe, the Mozilla project’s chief technology officer, Andreas Gal, announced on Wednesday.

The purpose is to support commercial video streams. But this is a radical, disheartening development in the history of the organisation, long held out as a beacon for the open, free spirit of the web as a tool for liberation.

As Gal’s blogpost makes clear, this move was done without much enthusiasm, out of a fear that Firefox (Mozilla’s flagship product and by far the most popular free/open browser in the world) was being sidelined by Apple, Google and Microsoft’s inclusion of proprietary technology to support Netflix and other DRM-encumbered videos in their browsers.
»www.theguardian.com/technology/2···doctorow


Cartel
Premium
join:2006-09-13
Chilliwack, BC
kudos:2
reply to siljaline

So I can fire up media encoder or fraps and capture the player window and the DRM seems kinda useless doesn't it?

Firefox is getting retarded



Chubbzie

join:2014-02-11
Greenville, NC
reply to siljaline

Cue Price Is Right fail music...

In the end, all DRM really does is create more headaches for legitimate use and users. Those with the know how and technical prowess will find ways to subvert these practices. As history has shown time & time again if it can be engineered it can be reversed. Have a great day everyone.



Boricua
Premium
join:2002-01-26
Sacramuerto

1 recommendation

reply to Dude111

Re: ‏

said by Dude111:

quote:
I hope they will offer a simple way to remove it...
There is an easy way to avoid this....... DO NOT UPGRADE TO THE VERSION THAT HAS THIS CRAP!!


--
Illegal aliens have always been a problem in the United States. Ask any Indian. Robert Orben


antdude
A Ninja Ant
Premium,VIP
join:2001-03-25
United State
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
reply to Dude111

said by Dude111:

quote:
I hope they will offer a simple way to remove it...
There is an easy way to avoid this....... DO NOT UPGRADE TO THE VERSION THAT HAS THIS CRAP!!

Or switch to another web browser. We still need security and other updates.
--
Ant @ AQFL.net and AntFarm.ma.cx. Please do not IM/e-mail me for technical support. Use this forum or better, »community.norton.com ! Disclaimer: The views expressed in this posting are mine, and do not necessarily reflect the views of my employer.


goalieskates
Premium
join:2004-09-12
land of big

2 recommendations

said by antdude:

We still need security and other updates.

Do we really need their "security" fixes? Their programming mistakes introduced most of them anyhow.

The browser is only one line of defense. Most of us use many, layered. As for the other updates, given how many people are busily undoing Australis, I doubt that too.

What Mitchell Baker doesn't seem to get is that I don't want DRM on my machine. If that means I can't watch certain things, so be it. I absolutely refuse to be treated like a criminal when I'm not doing anything wrong. She and Mozilla need to focus on getting their own house in order, not on punishing innocent users "just in case."

GuruGuy

join:2002-12-16
Atlanta, GA
reply to siljaline

Re: Mozilla agrees to add DRM support to Firefox

I'm wondering if those other browsers that use the mozilla code will follow suit? Palemoon is one I believe? Others?
--
GuruGuy



siljaline
I'm lovin' that double wide
Premium
join:2002-10-12
Montreal, QC
kudos:17
Reviews:
·Bell Sympatico

That's a valid question that will surely flesh out over the next while. Stay tuned.

Driven by necessity Mozilla to enable HTML5 DRM in Firefox


Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5

1 recommendation

reply to antdude

Re: ‏

Huh? It won't be shipped as part of the browser. You download it and even if you have it you don't have to say "yes" to using DRM. Mozilla is making it so you can say "no". Fx will be the ONLY browser with this ability. It's part of IE and Chrome and latest Opera and you can't say no on those browsers. (Well, you can say no indirectly by not watching protected content). As for SeaMonkey, you wouldn't probably watch HTML5 protected video there anyway as that browser has a long standing bug that keeps you from watching full screen. Plus, I have not seen comment as to whether or not SeaMonkey will even offer the CDM.

Gavin Sharp just stated in Mozilla Governance news group group (adding detail and clarity to the long earlier post by Boris Zabarsky of MIT) that the CDM will NOT ship as part of the browser. It must be downloaded and the user must give consent before CDM code is executed. What has not been decided is details such as how and at what point the user consents.
There is comment in the news group about forks like PaleMoon and, apparently, as of later this year he will need to comply.

Additionally, Gavin stated that there will be a way for users to DISABLE THE USE of EME/CDMs entirely with regards to Fx. SO, NO ONE SHOULD FREAK OUT.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson



Steve
I know your IP address
Consultant
join:2001-03-10
Foothill Ranch, CA
kudos:5

1 recommendation

said by Mele20:

SO, NO ONE SHOULD FREAK OUT.

You must be new here

TheMG
Premium
join:2007-09-04
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·NorthWest Tel

2 recommendations

reply to siljaline

Re: Mozilla agrees to add DRM support to Firefox

I guess the video content industry hasn't yet learned that encryption/DRM does nothing to stop piracy, despite virtually every DRM scheme so far having been cracked within weeks of release.

Yet they stubbornly keep on trying, creating more and more problems for legitimate consumers in the process.

I wonder what new problems this "EME" will create? Nothing ever goes 100% smoothly and bug-free when it comes to DRM.


Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1

1 recommendation

Sadly execs will never learn that they are wasting shareholder dollars on DRM

and you are 100% right about the whole no such thing as bug free DRM. we have had HDCP for how long now and it still has issues for lots of people.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports



Steve
I know your IP address
Consultant
join:2001-03-10
Foothill Ranch, CA
kudos:5

said by Kearnstd:

Sadly execs will never learn that they are wasting shareholder dollars on DRM

Netflix seems to be doing OK.

and you are 100% right about the whole no such thing as bug free DRM.

Isn't it a weak argument to draw a negative conclusion about something merely because it's not bug-free?
--
Stephen J. Friedl | Unix Wizard | Security Consultant | KA8CMY | Southern California USA | my web site


siljaline
I'm lovin' that double wide
Premium
join:2002-10-12
Montreal, QC
kudos:17
Reviews:
·Bell Sympatico
reply to antdude

Enter the mix -- AdBlock Plus’s effect on Firefox’s memory usage --
Statements made: »blog.mozilla.org/nnethercote/201···y-usage/

Have riled the likes of ABP developer Wladimir Palant shooting back with: »adblockplus.org/blog/on-the-adbl···sumption