dslreports logo
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc
Search similar:


uniqs
11416

GadgetsRme
RIP lilhurricane and CJ
Premium Member
join:2002-01-30
Canon City, CO

GadgetsRme to LittleBill

Premium Member

to LittleBill

Re: [Plumbing] Correcting low city water pressure

Read it again. I said I replaced galvanized. There never was a PRV until after the Pex install. They just forgot to turn it up after the install. I never specified the what the pressure was before all the work.

Jack_in_VA
Premium Member
join:2007-11-26
North, VA

Jack_in_VA to GadgetsRme

Premium Member

to GadgetsRme
said by GadgetsRme:

My knowledge of this is because of the job I have.
Certified Water Professional
Operator in Charge
Town of ______________
Water Enterprise

What capacity plant do you have? We had a 3 mgd potable until we converted and tied in to County water. Still ran 12+ mgd river water to Barometric Evaporators for the process.

GadgetsRme
RIP lilhurricane and CJ
Premium Member
join:2002-01-30
Canon City, CO

1 recommendation

GadgetsRme

Premium Member

We are a small, consecutive system. Our source treats the water. My main job is the delivery of the water, which includes pressure problems, leak detection, all the required testing which is handled by another operator that works under me. The computer took a direct lightning strike recently and since the system was over 10yrs old there are no replacement parts because it was a custom system. We just approved and signed a contract to get it replaced. The town also has a contract with a company that does the heavy digging once we find a problem. Right now all controls are on manual and I'm the computer. There are four others that get involved when we need more man power. I also have to coordinate upgrades, which we are going thru right now.

Msradell
Premium Member
join:2008-12-25
Louisville, KY

1 recommendation

Msradell to Jack_in_VA

Premium Member

to Jack_in_VA
said by Jack_in_VA:

Incorrect! Booster pumps are used all the time to raise pressure above the supply pressure. Booster pumps will raise the pressure all the way from the pump to the outlet. What does a firetruck pump do? Raises pressure and flow through the hose and nozzle.

If you have 60 psi supply to your home and want 100 psi at your faucets a booster pump will do just that.

?? I never said the booster pump wouldn't raise the pressure all the way! All I said was that if it was a static pressure problem the booster pump would make a considerable difference and if it was a dynamic pressure problem (not enough flow available) it wouldn't help because you can't increase the pressure of something you don't have.
iknow_t
join:2012-05-03

1 recommendation

iknow_t to ke4pym

Member

to ke4pym
said by ke4pym:

Why don't you start out with free option number 1? Call the water utility and have them come check the pressure at the meter?

Here, the street pressure is something like 120psi. And everyone has a regulator on their property dropping it to whatever. I had mine at 80psi for awhile. But man, did I go through the water. Backed it down to 60psi and the bill dropped.

I have a straight pipe for my showerhead. So no low flow option there for me. I like the exfoliation blaster 4000.

yeah, that 80 PSI water costs more.. especially for the same measured amounts..
scooper
join:2000-07-11
Kansas City, KS
·Google Fiber

scooper to LittleBill

Member

to LittleBill
said by LittleBill:

I have never seen this done, although thats a pretty good idea, most new home builds in this area are done with home run manifolds, feed with 1 inch main tie's to the manifold

My house was a refit - to replace the grey Polybutulene that the fittings were prone to break.
and due to layout - I'm not too sure the home run manifolds would work out too well either. The way I ran the PEX is working just fine
LittleBill
join:2013-05-24

LittleBill

Member

no thats a good idea, im not exactly fond of the manifold setup, works great with flow, not so much for hot water, takes a long time for it to come

Hall
MVM
join:2000-04-28
Germantown, OH

7 recommendations

Hall to IowaCowboy

MVM

to IowaCowboy
What percentage of threads in this "Home Improvement" forum turn into a pissing match of "I'm more of an expert than you are" ? I'm leaning towards the 75% range....

mackey
Premium Member
join:2007-08-20

1 recommendation

mackey

Premium Member

You think it's that low?

Lurch77
Premium Member
join:2001-11-22
Green Bay, WI

1 edit

Lurch77 to Jack_in_VA

Premium Member

to Jack_in_VA
said by Jack_in_VA:

Pipe "Size" can effect flow capability. Has nothing to do with pressure.

Technically incorrect. Bernoulli's principle.
said by Hall:

What percentage of threads in this "Home Improvement" forum turn into a pissing match of "I'm more of an expert than you are" ? I'm leaning towards the 75% range....

Did you ever notice the user(s) involved with nearly all of them?

Hall
MVM
join:2000-04-28
Germantown, OH

Hall

MVM

said by Lurch77:

Did you ever notice the user(s) involved with nearly all of them?

Absolutely !

Jack_in_VA
Premium Member
join:2007-11-26
North, VA

4 edits

Jack_in_VA to Lurch77

Premium Member

to Lurch77
Click for full size
said by Lurch77:

said by Jack_in_VA:

Pipe "Size" can effect flow capability. Has nothing to do with pressure.

Technically incorrect. Bernoulli's principle.

I know exactly how orifices and venturi work. Are you trying to tell me that flow @ 60 psi through a 1/2" pipe is the same as 60 psi through a 1" Pipe? I don't hardly think so. See chart with pressure, pipe size and flow.

How much flow can I get through a 1/2" copper pipe (3/8 i.d.) at 55 psi? the flowrate is

about 7.5 to 10 gpm Plenty for up to 3 low flow shower heads

mackey
Premium Member
join:2007-08-20

mackey

Premium Member

Uh, first you say pressure has nothing to do with flow, then you post a chart that shows a direct relationship between pressure and flow. What exactly are you trying to say?

And different materials CAN affect flow as pipe is sized based on OD and for the same OD different materials may have different IDs. Smaller pipe ID = less flow assuming input pressure stays the same.

/M

Jack_in_VA
Premium Member
join:2007-11-26
North, VA

Jack_in_VA

Premium Member

Where the hell do you see a direct relationship between pressure and flow? The chart says nothing about different materials ID or OD. All flows are based on the same pressure using the ID of the pipe. It's all at the same. Pressure has nothing to do with it as verified by the chart. Reading comprehension is very important

mackey
Premium Member
join:2007-08-20

mackey

Premium Member

said by Jack_in_VA:

Reading comprehension is very important

Yes it is, so please look at your own chart. It's right there on the Y axis - PSI, also known as pressure. Assuming the pipe size is not changing (lets use the 1" as an example), at a pressure of 30 PSI a 1" pipe flows 32 GPM. That same 1" pipe at a pressure of 60 PSI will flow 47 GPM. The GPM is changing based on pressure - a direct relationship.

/M

Jack_in_VA
Premium Member
join:2007-11-26
North, VA

Jack_in_VA

Premium Member

Reading comprehension. I said that pipe size effects flow capability that Lurch commented on. Assuming the pressure remains the same. The chart does not show anything other than the flows through various pipe ID sizes at a given pressure. What's so hard to understand about that? At a given pressure the pipe size directly impacts flow rates. Only you are trying to change the pressure which of course will change the flow rate through a given size pipe. Everybody knows that.......

GadgetsRme
RIP lilhurricane and CJ
Premium Member
join:2002-01-30
Canon City, CO

GadgetsRme to Hall

Premium Member

to Hall
No pissing match intended. There is a right way to do things. If IowaCowboy were to take some of the advice given it would cause a truck roll. Most utilities charge for a truck roll that is caused by a user not doing due diligence. IowaCowboy has a limited income and the due diligence is within the scope of his abilities, I think, based on his posts here. My only concern is saving him possible charges for an unnecessary truck roll. Posting my cred's was only to reinforce to him that what I was saying is from day to day life experience.

mackey
Premium Member
join:2007-08-20

mackey to Jack_in_VA

Premium Member

to Jack_in_VA
Don't blame your inability to clearly state what you mean on our reading. The way you phrased it - "Pipe 'Size' can effect flow capability. Has nothing to do with pressure." - the "has nothing to do with pressure" part looks like it's referring to the "can effect flow capability" part of your previous sentence. Had you clearly stated "Pipe 'Size' can effect flow capability but has nothing to do with pressure" this whole thing could of been avoided, and my initial comment asked you to clarify what you were referring to (which you refused to do and insulted me instead). Lurch was also clearly working on the assumption that you were saying increasing pressure would not change the flow (which is obviously incorrect).

/M

Jack_in_VA
Premium Member
join:2007-11-26
North, VA

1 edit

Jack_in_VA

Premium Member

Where in "Pipe 'Size' can effect flow capability. Has nothing to do with pressure." do you see anything about pressure? It is flow through various size pipes at a steady given pressure. You read that into it. I didn't say it.

mackey
Premium Member
join:2007-08-20

2 recommendations

mackey

Premium Member

said by Jack_in_VA:

Where in "Pipe 'Size' can effect flow capability. Has nothing to do with pressure." do you see anything about pressure? You read that into it. I didn't say it.

Right there.

Jack_in_VA
Premium Member
join:2007-11-26
North, VA

Jack_in_VA to GadgetsRme

Premium Member

to GadgetsRme
That is a concern with Cowboy. He has limited funds but a willingness to spend on things he sees here. His best bet would be to determine the pressure of his incoming water supply from the street, the size and type of his pipe from the street and the size of the piping to his various sinks, showers etc. Right now he doesn't have the information to make any decisions as to what he can do if anything.

GadgetsRme
RIP lilhurricane and CJ
Premium Member
join:2002-01-30
Canon City, CO

GadgetsRme

Premium Member

You are correct in all that. However, one still needs to work end of the system back toward the meter. If a customer would insist on a measurement at the meter first and the problem ends up on his side off the meter, he is not going to like the size bill he is going to get.

Hall
MVM
join:2000-04-28
Germantown, OH

1 recommendation

Hall to GadgetsRme

MVM

to GadgetsRme
said by GadgetsRme:

No pissing match intended. There is a right way to do things.

More than a few people agreed that the first thing to do was confirm the pressure. After that, and until then, the thread may have been better off being put "on hold".

Jack_in_VA
Premium Member
join:2007-11-26
North, VA

Jack_in_VA to GadgetsRme

Premium Member

to GadgetsRme
He needs to determine the pressure and the pipe size entering the house. With no flow he will know what the supply pressure from the city is. If the pipe is too small or the ID reduced by buildup he will have to decide to install a new supply pipe. (at his cost).

Hawk
Premium Member
join:2003-08-25

Hawk to IowaCowboy

Premium Member

to IowaCowboy
IowaCowboy See Profile
1. What is the static pressure at the structure?
2. Is there a pressure regulator installed?

GadgetsRme
RIP lilhurricane and CJ
Premium Member
join:2002-01-30
Canon City, CO

GadgetsRme to Jack_in_VA

Premium Member

to Jack_in_VA
Depending on the system used, the utility can give you an expected range. On the one I work for it requires altitude correction. The highest elevation houses and the fire hydrant by them are on pumps while the lowest elevation homes will get nearly 80psi gravity pressure when the tank is full. However to get an exact reading from the utility requires disconnecting the home from the main at the meter and installing a pressure gauge. Some of the homes I deal with I could do in an hour. Others would require two men and a backhoe or a lot of shoveling. Getting incoming pressure anywhere else in the home falls under the due diligence part.

Lurch77
Premium Member
join:2001-11-22
Green Bay, WI

2 recommendations

Lurch77 to Jack_in_VA

Premium Member

to Jack_in_VA
said by Jack_in_VA:

Are you trying to tell me that flow @ 60 psi through a 1/2" pipe is the same as 60 psi through a 1" Pipe?

I wasn't trying to tell you anything. I know you wouldn't listen, anyway. I was saying that, technically, pressure and velocity are related. While correct for this particular situation, for those that don't know the details of this science, your comment could cause them to be misinformed.

IowaCowboy
Lost in the Supermarket
Premium Member
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA
·Comcast XFINITY

IowaCowboy to GadgetsRme

Premium Member

to GadgetsRme
said by GadgetsRme:

Depending on the system used, the utility can give you an expected range. On the one I work for it requires altitude correction. The highest elevation houses and the fire hydrant by them are on pumps while the lowest elevation homes will get nearly 80psi gravity pressure when the tank is full. However to get an exact reading from the utility requires disconnecting the home from the main at the meter and installing a pressure gauge. Some of the homes I deal with I could do in an hour. Others would require two men and a backhoe or a lot of shoveling. Getting incoming pressure anywhere else in the home falls under the due diligence part.

Piece of cake here, in northern climates (the house in question is in Maine) the meter is inside the house, usually in the basement or under the kitchen sink.

Jack_in_VA
Premium Member
join:2007-11-26
North, VA

3 edits

Jack_in_VA to Lurch77

Premium Member

to Lurch77
said by Lurch77:

said by Jack_in_VA:

Are you trying to tell me that flow @ 60 psi through a 1/2" pipe is the same as 60 psi through a 1" Pipe?

I wasn't trying to tell you anything. I know you wouldn't listen, anyway. I was saying that, technically, pressure and velocity are related. While correct for this particular situation, for those that don't know the details of this science, your comment could cause them to be misinformed.

At a given pressure the size of the pipe directly effects (determines) the volume of water that will flow in the pipe. Nothing else except restrictions such as bends, fittings, valves etc will change the flow value. In this case the assumption is a straight pipe. Do some scientific tests. Take some various size pipes and applying the same pressure to each measure the flow into a bucket for a given time for each. Be sure to report back on here with the results.
Jack_in_VA

Jack_in_VA to IowaCowboy

Premium Member

to IowaCowboy
said by IowaCowboy:

said by GadgetsRme:

Depending on the system used, the utility can give you an expected range. On the one I work for it requires altitude correction. The highest elevation houses and the fire hydrant by them are on pumps while the lowest elevation homes will get nearly 80psi gravity pressure when the tank is full. However to get an exact reading from the utility requires disconnecting the home from the main at the meter and installing a pressure gauge. Some of the homes I deal with I could do in an hour. Others would require two men and a backhoe or a lot of shoveling. Getting incoming pressure anywhere else in the home falls under the due diligence part.

Piece of cake here, in northern climates (the house in question is in Maine) the meter is inside the house, usually in the basement or under the kitchen sink.

That should make getting your information a lot easier (and cheaper)