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El Quintron
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join:2008-04-28
Tronna

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Re: Official: Watch_Dogs Thread - Opinions/Issues/Comments

said by me1212:

I've said it before and I'll say it again, we may not be headed towards a crash but theres gonna be a market shift soon.

Some of the bigger players are going to take a dive, because smaller studios are able to release new IP at a much better price point, and get better reviews.

EQ
me1212
join:2008-11-20
Lees Summit, MO

me1212

Member

Thats a good point. LAst light cost 10 million to make, as did tw2. black ops 2 for example cost $250 million, 200 of aid 250 being just for advertising. A much much lower price, good games and sell well.

justin
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well there has been a market shift: MOBAs and mobile games dominate in terms of revenue -- and it is all IAPs.

However they grew the overall industry so things are not so bad, it just means that AAA titles are not the majority of the pie anymore.

I did watch the infamous second son credit roll (and the watch_dogs one is supposedly 15 minutes as well) and marvel at the sheer number of people involved in making these games compare to something like the addictive IOS game "Out There" which is made by one person but gets higher metacritic scores.

But as long as rockstar puts out titles that make a billion dollars in revenue then things are still the same, for the right big title. They are still huge in terms of sales and revenue and still at least my own preferred gaming experience. I'll re-buy GTAV PS4 edition, and I'll re-buy TLOU PS4 edition, they are that good and I'm happy to replay them with smoother graphics.

Cat5
join:2013-04-26

Cat5

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said by justin:

well there has been a market shift: MOBAs and mobile games dominate in terms of revenue -- and it is all IAPs.

However they grew the overall industry so things are not so bad, it just means that AAA titles are not the majority of the pie anymore.

I did watch the infamous second son credit roll (and the watch_dogs one is supposedly 15 minutes as well) and marvel at the sheer number of people involved in making these games compare to something like the addictive IOS game "Out There" which is made by one person but gets higher metacritic scores.

But as long as rockstar puts out titles that make a billion dollars in revenue then things are still the same, for the right big title. They are still huge in terms of sales and revenue and still at least my own preferred gaming experience. I'll re-buy GTAV PS4 edition, and I'll re-buy TLOU PS4 edition, they are that good and I'm happy to replay them with smoother graphics.

Free to play casual games are almost always going to be more popular than paid titles given that they appeal to a far wider audience and can often be played whilst laying in bed, or lounged on the sofa. It's only in recent times that these games can be played with any great ease thanks to the smartphones.

Big name games have almost always been hit and miss, it's just in the last few years where the Internet has given everyone a voice, and a place to shout. Previously people relied on ad campaigns and magazine reviews, both of which tend to give more favourable reviews than a game probably deserves.

ironweasel
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I finally decided to go ahead and redeem my code.

I'm about midway through the first act after 3 days, but I've discovered the fun of the multiplayer aspect....been doing the Online Hacking for at least 2 hours tonight. It's definitely fun at this point, and even the campaign is somewhat engaging. I've run across a couple moderately bad graphical glitches...like cars missing their body panels, transparent floors, and some other oddities but nothing game breaking.

Right now, I'd give Watch Dogs a 5 / 10 for the single player, and a 8.5 for the multiplayer. I might be a little less forgiving if I had actually paid retail for the game, but since I got it along with some other game with my new video card - I can't complain too much.

Alpha Phoenix
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join:2001-06-15
Brooklyn, NY

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There's a Watch Dogs thread in the Console forum if you're interested in checking it out and commenting in there as well.

»Watch Dogs

Rogue Wolf
An Easy Draw of a Sad Few
join:2003-08-12
Troy, NY

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said by Krisnatharok:

Buggy, uninspired game-play, would not purchase, 9.5/10.

9.5?! What'd it do, kill your dog?!
said by me1212:

I've said it before and I'll say it again, we may not be headed towards a crash but theres gonna be a market shift soon.

I'd say the conditions are extremely good for indie developers and smaller publishers to shine once the glut of overhyped crap finally repels the average gamer.

justin
..needs sleep
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justin

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Indie games are great. My iPhone is full of them.
But I think the industry is finding its feet again and about to regain its balance. A lot of stuff happened quite fast, the financial crisis, the rise of touch/mobile gaming and in app purchases. The whole hardware change to next-gen consoles. Japan swung over to handheld.

In all this it is no surprise that we're getting ultimate remakes of older games, and projects rushed out to capture people with new consoles or new GPUs who will buy anything to show off their graphics.

But within 12 months I think there will be amazing titles out that are worth $50 to own. It isn't balanced that one person can sell a game for $4.99 or $11.99 and be lauded, but a huge team of excellent talent working for two years is told there is no way their project is worth $59.99. It might be the case currently but the pieces are in place now for big titles from big studios to be completely worthwhile.
me1212
join:2008-11-20
Lees Summit, MO
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me1212

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I've been gaming for the past 18 years, and I can say with confidence maybe 2% of games I've played were actually worth $50. None of them being games that I could only play via digital download. There will never be a game good enough to make me pay full price when all I get is a download and not a physical copy. Day games with day 1 dlc, on disk dlc, ect are in no way worth $50+ no matter what ether. Especially when some games spend more on advertising than they do on the game itself.

I'm sorry but in this age of digital downloads on all platforms, rampant dlc, and games focusing more on story than game play I doubt any game will be worth $50+ for years.

Koil
Premium Member
join:2002-09-10
Irmo, SC

Koil

Premium Member

Can't believe I'm about to take the Nightfall stance on this, but he's right about this point:

I think your price model is stagnating. I had the same problem for a while, but the fact is, inflation happens and so does the cost of entertainment.

Going out somewhere to eat, even fast food, is usually going to run you 5+ (more like 7-8) dollars (unless you stick to the dollar menu, I guess), but regardless....going to a bar, the movies, all of these take money, and there is a ratio to entertainment had (time) vs money paid (investment). $50 bucks for something you got hours of entertainment from isn't a bad deal at all. I can blow $50 in no time flat when I'm out drinking, playing golf, whatever, and those activities only last a very short amount of time.

Your ROI in video games is actually pretty good unless the game is just simply abysmal.

Also, I know you were saddled with the satellite internet thing, but let the physical copy thing go....it's gone. Like CD cases and VHS, Betamax and LP's...it's an outdated model.
me1212
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Lees Summit, MO
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me1212

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I haven't had satellite internet for years, I've been on uncapped wireless since long before I got back in to pc gaming. Physical may be an out dated model but if it is that just means they need to lower their prices on digital. One of the strongest points of the pc is the lower price of games, we cannot let that go, sure one could justify $60 on a console game because theres a lot more money involved with getting you that game(shipping ect) and you get something you can hold in your hand, with pc its pay the money and download it from the server and there is minimal cost involved. You can go a head and say inflation all you want, not gonna persuade me that modern games are worth $60 when its just a download and there is minimal delivery cost involved. Heck even metro last light cost less on the pc than consoles at launch.

Not to mention drm, I'll occasionally pay full priced for gog games(but they are usually lower cost to begin with) since theres no drm. If there was no drm I'd be more inclined to pay a tiny more honestly.

Koil
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Irmo, SC

Koil

Premium Member

Sorry, I could have sworn you were talking about still having that not that long ago...

I honestly don't think I've paid full price for a game in years. Steam, GMG, and other sites make paying full price almost a non-issue unless you have to have it the day of release, and even then they often have sales on those games.

I'm good with the Steam model, and don't really look at it as DRM as more than just an easy place to put all my games...so, you may have a beef there if you don't use Steam.

Secondly, just because you don't have something to hold in your hand, doesn't mean the cost of development was $0. Justifying the cost of console games because they ship you a physical copy doesn't make sense to me...that's a small portion of their budget. Also, by doing digital vs. physical, while you may not get the cost reduction in the price, they can likely reinvest that money saved into the game to make it better.

justin
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justin

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Yeah I think the argument that digital must be cheaper than physical does not reflect the costs of building the game. What has happened is physical games have got cheaper and cheaper over the years (because: inflation) and it was untenable. Perhaps they got cheaper to preserve the antiquated system of distribution etc. Margins got cut. 17 year olds work at Ebgames, etc.

Digital now at $50 is much cheaper than a $50 game 10 years ago. Because, inflation. The USA is a bit unique being one of the cheapest places to go out and get some junk food and a movie but try anywhere else in the western world and you're looking at $50 for two people who just drink a coke and have some popcorn.

You can wait till sales, no problem, on all digital distribution platforms there are sales. It just means the price is patience and perhaps not playing the latest and greatest with your mates who don't wait. Just because a $50 title is $20 on a sale doesn't mean that $20 was the right price. $20 was not the right price at launch. Not with a development team comprising 100s of people.

Also a lot depends on gamers age. Kids and students love free to play MOBAs, minecraft, and other very economical things full of mods and tweaking because they don't want to pay $50 for 20 hours of fun then never play again. But if you've got kids and you've allowed 10 hours to kill Nazis per week then full retail price for Wolfenstein is a complete bargain. That's an inconsequential price for 3 weeks of "me time" in front of the TV after 9pm.