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signmeuptoo
Bless you Howie
Premium
join:2001-11-22
NanoParticle
kudos:5

[WIN8] Lenovo or MS screw up, but I have to pay, questions

I got a Lenovo G580 laptop about 15 months ago, and I was never able to make the restore "disks" that Lenovo's procedure explains. It used to be that factory systems let you make one set of restore DVDs, but with Windows 8, they say that is no longer available, but there is a procedure to make a restore thumb drive, but it doesn't work, when I try running the restore off of the thumb drive (I've tried using 3 different thumb drives) it says partitions missing. This is a known problem and in the Lenovo forum they said there is no solution for it and they don't offer any other help (my next laptop will NOT be a Lenovo as they've left me high and dry).

If I get a retail copy of a Win 8 disk, since there is no key sticker on the laptop, will it still work using EFI and my CMOS embedded key, will it activate if I use my own Win 8 disk? Yes, it came with win 8.0.


maartena
Elmo
Premium
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA
kudos:3
Retail versions of Windows will work on any hardware, regardless of any EFI.

You would be better off however finding a .iso file of the OEM version of Windows, and try if it installs using your CMOS key, as it will save you some money.

If you can still boot into Windows, you can use Jellybean Keyfinder to find your ACTUAL Windows key, and then use it to download an ISO here:

»windows.microsoft.com/en-us/wind···key-only
--
"I reject your reality and substitute my own!"


Dr Tweak

join:2004-09-23
Chesapeake, VA
reply to signmeuptoo
If it came with Windows 8 just get a Windows 8 disc and install it. it will automatically activate and read your key built into your BIOS. There is no "key" to install it and Jellybean Keyfinder will not work. Just make sure it is a Windows 8 disc not a Windows 8.1 disc.



Freddy
Premium
join:2005-05-17
Arlington, VA
kudos:2
reply to signmeuptoo
signmeuptoo,

When you made the thumb drive, did you copy the restore partition from the C Drive to the thumb drive, assuming there is a restore partition to copy? Here is a more detailed procedure for making a restore thumb drive in Win8.1:

»How I Made Bootable Flash Drive Windows 8.1.1

Freddy


signmeuptoo
Bless you Howie
Premium
join:2001-11-22
NanoParticle
kudos:5
I did Control Panel: Recovery: Create a Recovery Thumb Drive. Tried it with different thumb drives and pulled HD and put other HD in, and it doesn't work, says partition missing, and I choose to copy the restore partition, yes.

EDIT: It's a known problem with my and some other Lenovo laptops and Lenovo acknowledged the issue as being a problem but refused to offer any solution or to do anything about it.


Freddy
Premium
join:2005-05-17
Arlington, VA
kudos:2
signmeuptoo, what is a known problem? Do you mean your Lenovo laptop's C drive doesn't have a recovery partition? Or what?

If your Lenovo C drive has no recovery partition, then of course you can't recover using this method. You need something to recover in order to recover.

If you have no recovery partition, then you should use the backup feature found in control panel (or a 3rd party backup).

Make a backup to an external hard drive (like in an enclosure), and then use the thumb drive recovery procedure to recover from that external backup.

Maybe I don't understand what you mean.

Freddy


signmeuptoo
Bless you Howie
Premium
join:2001-11-22
NanoParticle
kudos:5
I thought I was being clear, but again, the recovery process fails and Lenovo knows it doesn't work.

Again, let me spell it out:

I get a thumb drive of the required specs.

I run the make a restore thumb drive as per Lenovo's instructions and choose the option to include the restore partition.

It completes.

I then remove the drive from the laptop, put a blank drive in the laptop, and attempt to run the restore off of the thumb and it fails, saying a partition is missing.

In the Lenovo forums a multitude of people with my and some other models have this problem, and Lenovo acknowledges it, but offers no solution and hasn't created a solution

Therefore, my laptop is 15 months old and out of warranty and I have no restore "disK" if the HD goes south on me.

Furthermore, I cannot afford to buy anything that might be a solution, I'm broke. An disgusted with Lenovo.


darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:4
reply to signmeuptoo
Does the laptop have a DVD drive? If so, you can probably order a recovery DVD from Lenovo. 1-800-426-7378 is their toll-free customer services number...
--
♬ Dragon of good fortune struggles with the trickster Fox ♬


Freddy
Premium
join:2005-05-17
Arlington, VA
kudos:2
reply to signmeuptoo
OK, signmeujptoo, so a partition is missing. What partition? Is the recovery partition missing (the one you copied From the c drive to the thumb drive)? Is it missing from the thumb drive? Is it missing from the original hard drive?

Or, is the error message referring to the new hard drive missing a partition to which is cannot restore to because it's missing? That is, no partition on the new hard drive.

I suppose I shouldn't be trying to address this situation from a distance. It's hard dealing with problems from so far away.

Freddy


signmeuptoo
Bless you Howie
Premium
join:2001-11-22
NanoParticle
kudos:5

1 edit
Ok, I'm trying to be explicit. I did say that after REMOVING the hard drive and INSTALLING another to test, and running the restore OFF of the thumb drive, I get the error message that a partition is missing. What partition? I have no idea, it doesn't say. I've installed the new HD (a smaller, older spare drive I kept just for this purpose) both formatted and not formatted, same message either way.

I have no idea what partition is missing, it doesn't say, but this is why trying to restore off of the thumb drive.

EDIT:

I AM trying to explain clearly, and at the same time I'm frustrated with the issue, which probably comes through, I don't want to get short with anyone, but I've been over this with tech support and other people repeatedly, so repeating it adds to the misery of it.

How did we let things deteriorate so badly that corporations can get away with selling product with a warranty and then not properly honor it. It's like the wild wild west or something.

I am trying to be clear, if I am not, my apologies.


Freddy
Premium
join:2005-05-17
Arlington, VA
kudos:2
Well, signmeuptoo, since no one can understand the particular problem you have, why don't you try a different approach to making a system recovery. As the saying goes, there's more than one way to skin a cat.

I see that your original hard drive with the operating system on it is still functional. In that case, you can make a backup of it.

Maybe you can try using the system backup feature included in Win8.1 You can find it in Control Panel > System and Security > File History. At the bottom of the File History page, click on System Image Backup.

There, you will see options to create a system image on either a hard drive or on one or more DVDs. I suggest using a hard drive, if you can.

After you finish making the system image, you should be able to use the utility in your thumb drive to recover the image. That is, if the bootable thumb drive has been made in accordance with the instructions in the reference I posted earlier.

I don't know how you made your bootable thumb drive. If in doubt, do it over using my earlier instructions.

You don't necessarily need a restorable OEM partition when you have a backup of your current system.

Let us know what you think of this idea.

Freddy


nwrickert
sand groper
Premium,MVM
join:2004-09-04
Geneva, IL
kudos:7
Reviews:
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reply to signmeuptoo
said by signmeuptoo:

I have no idea, it doesn't say. I've installed the new HD (a smaller, older spare drive I kept just for this purpose) both formatted and not formatted, same message either way.

I have no idea what partition is missing, it doesn't say, but this is why trying to restore off of the thumb drive.

Maybe it needs an EFI partition. On the other hand, from your description, it isn't clear whether the complaint is a missing partition on the USB or on the hard drive.

If you can borrow someone's install DVD, try that. As others are suggesting, it should read the key from the BIOS and activate.

Hmm, I never made recovery USB for my Win8. I did make Acronis backups, which are probably even more useful (or at least I hope they are).
--
AT&T Uverse; 2Wire 3800-HGV router; openSuSE 13.1; KDE 4.11.5; firefox 29.0.1

dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to signmeuptoo
A long time away, in a universe far ago, I once attempted to use a manufacturer's 'restore CD'. It too bitched about missing partitions.

The trick was to create empty partitions on the new disk, of the same size as the original disk partitions.

(I assume the intent of that restore CD was to reset the configuration on the same disk rather than on a new disk, and they assumed the disk was at least in good enough shape that the partition data remained).

You might want to try that.


David
I start new work on
Premium,VIP
join:2002-05-30
Granite City, IL
kudos:101
Reviews:
·DIRECTV
·AT&T Midwest
·magicjack.com
·Google Voice
reply to signmeuptoo
what about using a different partition software? I have been a fan of either acronis true image or macrim reflect. Either would be a very suitable backup/imaging software. I believe with both of those you can even make bootable disks and bootable USB keys.

I have to say I disagree to some extent about lenovo, as a 4th time thinkpadder, I have learned to think outside the black box. I love them because fixing broken ones is only a hardware maintenance manual away, which lenovo most certainly publishes. Some of them you can put in your own nifty hardware for.

They also have a unofficial support forum of thinkpads.com. Those forums have given me some good advice on parts, and things for thinkpads I have. Most there have as least one thinkpad, some even 2-3. One of the forum regulars may have your model and be able to tell you what to do even.


they will have to pry my thinkpads out of my cold dead hands... even then I might not let go!

--
02/24/14- My hours recently changed. I work 11:30 A.M. to 10 P.M. central time. I am not in the office on friday, saturday, or sunday. Thanks-David


Wily_One
Premium
join:2002-11-24
San Jose, CA
Thinkpads also have a proper 3-year warranty.


signmeuptoo
Bless you Howie
Premium
join:2001-11-22
NanoParticle
kudos:5
And how does that help me?


Wily_One
Premium
join:2002-11-24
San Jose, CA
It doesn't, nor was it meant to. I was agreeing with David See Profile.


David
I start new work on
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join:2002-05-30
Granite City, IL
kudos:101
Reviews:
·DIRECTV
·AT&T Midwest
·magicjack.com
·Google Voice
reply to signmeuptoo
if you are referring to me, here is the links.

1.) macrim reflect free- »www.macrium.com/reflectfree.aspx

2.) »www.thinkpads.com or »forum.thinkpads.com/
--
02/24/14- My hours recently changed. I work 11:30 A.M. to 10 P.M. central time. I am not in the office on friday, saturday, or sunday. Thanks-David

OZO
Premium
join:2003-01-17
kudos:2

1 edit
reply to signmeuptoo
said by signmeuptoo:

How did we let things deteriorate so badly that corporations can get away with selling product with a warranty and then not properly honor it. It's like the wild wild west or something.

It's easy to see. Corporations get bigger profit by selling more inferior product in case they can do it (consumers don't complain). You may notice, that it's working for them very well because consumers in vast majority don't care and, therefore, allow it to happen. Example? At the beginning of PC era manufacturers were felt obligated to provide OS installation media along with all sold PC's. Then they discovered that they may sell PC's with HD, containing OS image on one if its hidden partitions. It's cheaper for them - PC is sold with no OS restoration CD/DVD media. And dumb consumers haven't noticed importance of that substitution (real installation media was replaced with a virtual media) and didn't complain. At that time they had a choice to make that OS media when they want it. Now some manufacturers discover that they may go further. They start to offer "recovery partition", that will help to restore OS partition. The trick is (and most consumers haven't noticed how they got tricked this time) that it's working only on the same HD. Consumer still thinks that he can restore his PC at any time, but the manufacturer silently removed the ability to do it with HD, they don't provide... Why they do it? They think that they may get additional pennies selling you those HD when you'll get disparate... That's how marketing is working here. Deceptive trick, hidden form unsuspicious consumer, and they may get some extra pennies...

I'm sorry, but I think that with your laptop you was tricked exactly this way...

Regarding solution... What I'd do in this case, on a new HD I'd try to manually make two partitions. Properties of those partitions should be logically similar (type and may be size of the "restore" partition). Then I'd copy content from old HD's "restore" partition into the similar partition on your new drive. Only after that I'd run that thumb drive and see if it still complain. I guess booted code will try to simply copy content from that "restore" partition into the main OS partition and that's it... My bet would be - the thumb drive created is just a dumped down copier, that's what it is.

Of course it's PITA to do. But that's the price for not be careful enough with modern PC manufacturers and letting them do whatever they want in order to pursue a bigger profit...
--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...


plencnerb
Premium
join:2000-09-25
Carpentersville, IL
kudos:3
reply to signmeuptoo
said by signmeuptoo:

I have no idea what partition is missing, it doesn't say, but this is why trying to restore off of the thumb drive.

In an attempt to try to figure out what partition is missing, is it possible to boot off the USB Drive with the original hard drive in the system, just to see if it can start the process?

While I have used many Lenovo products, I've not done this specific task with them, so I don't know if there is a point that it starts and does not actually run until you click "go" (for example).

If you can do that, and it not actually start working, then you know the Thumb Drive is not the issue, but the blank hard drive.

It sounds to me like the issue is that, even though you selected the option, per Lenovo's instructions, to include the restore partition on the thumb drive, it appears that step may not be working.

OR

It could be that the restore partition is actually on the thumb drive, but the part of the process that checks to see if it needs to use that one on the thumb drive is not working. I would guess that if the recovery process determines the hard drive is blank, it should then check to see if the boot device (your thumb drive) contains the required partition. If so, it should then copy that partition to the hard drive, and then continue with the recovery process.

--Brian
--
============================
--Brian Plencner

E-Mail: CoasterBrian72Cancer@gmail.com
Note: Kill Cancer to Reply via e-mail


toooomuch

@50.138.50.x
reply to signmeuptoo
here's simpler diy advice - since you have tried multiple times, with multiple advices, and nothing is easily working, it may be time to quit, and declare lemon.

despite your feelings, start again with Lenovo themselves, and persist, and persist again, in seeing if they will exchange that model laptop for another model, one that is known NOT to have the backup problem.

perhaps with a little extra cash from you, prorated for the 15 months you have used it.

normally they are a good company, with good service.
and of course would like to keep you as a customer.


vaxvms
ferroequine fan
Premium
join:2005-03-01
Wormtown
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Charter
reply to signmeuptoo
You say you've got another HDD. If you're simply trying to CYA should something happen to the HDD in the laptop why not just image the one that you're now booting. It doesn't fix the problem but it is an option to address the HDD or file system going belly up.
--
Ask me no questions, I'll tell you no lies


Mashiki
Balking The Enemy's Plans

join:2002-02-04
Woodstock, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·Rogers Hi-Speed
·Bright House
reply to darcilicious
said by darcilicious:

Does the laptop have a DVD drive? If so, you can probably order a recovery DVD from Lenovo. 1-800-426-7378 is their toll-free customer services number...

Anyone should just skip that option and get a clean ISO from MS. They can be downloaded for free after all, then you're not going to have to worry about all the "system hogging crapware" that comes preinstalled for your misery.

Anyway @signmeuptoo, if the bios holds your key via EFI then any version that's compatible will work. Even some versions that have extended features will work just fine too(i.e. standard version, and pro version may work in both cases). Since you're getting the dreaded dual partition error, the first thing I'd look for is in the bios is disabling the "backup and restore" function that's built in. That should let you install a OS without a problem. Once you're up and running you can decide if you want to add a recovery partition.
--
The Art of War
"Excessive law is no law." - Cicero
The man who fed the world


signmeuptoo
Bless you Howie
Premium
join:2001-11-22
NanoParticle
kudos:5
reply to signmeuptoo
Man, I sure appreciate all the responses. I can't afford to replace with another model prorated, I am just that broke. Yes, I'm just trying to Cover My Ass that's all. I'm just unsure about using a retail or OEM copy to restore with, that that would work. Also, there's a few things I want with the install, there's a battery manager and a fan dust removal program (I think it reverses the CPU fan and spins it really fast).

The other thing about this laptop that is irritating is the wireless doesn't like my BIL's router and keeps disconnecting and I have to reset the wireless connection every half hour roughly. With my wireless it's fine, it's just on his it does it. Also, MS updated the wireless driver and it stopped working and the downloaded latest driver didn't work either, I ended up having to use the wireless driver on the restore partition.

Next laptop will probably be an ASUS, they are more dependable and they support their products.


chip89
Premium
join:2012-07-05
Independence, OH
reply to signmeuptoo
It's Lenvo on my HP laptop you can make 1 restore disc.


fartness
computersoc dot com
Premium
join:2003-03-25
Look Outside
reply to signmeuptoo
I apologize to the mods in advance if this isn't legal (I don't know if it is or isn't, they can decide), but this is what I've done in the past when in the same situation:
»forums.mydigitallife.info/archiv···0c18d3d9

I haven't done it in a couple years, but on Windows 7 I remember downloading an ISO of my choosing, and then running the keygen program and it did some other editing of something and then everything worked. I already paid for it so I should be able to have a working copy as I please.

All manufactures and/or MSFT will give you the same answer if you're in this situation (you're screwed, buy a new DVD for $100+ from us).


darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Frontier FiOS
said by fartness:

All manufactures and/or MSFT will give you the same answer if you're in this situation (you're screwed, buy a new DVD for $100+ from us).

HP charged me $15.03 including shipping -- this was about three months ago for a system that was over three years old. Worked like a charm.
--
♬ Dragon of good fortune struggles with the trickster Fox ♬


signmeuptoo
Bless you Howie
Premium
join:2001-11-22
NanoParticle
kudos:5
reply to signmeuptoo
Well, as I say, this is just CYA because well all know that hard drives fail, especially in laptops that get jostled around every day (mine goes in my backpack to work and from there to school, I am a bus rider and hiker. It also goes with me on weekends and otherwise when I go over to family's houses, so the laptop is indispensable to me.


signmeuptoo
Bless you Howie
Premium
join:2001-11-22
NanoParticle
kudos:5
reply to darcilicious
Lenovo charges 65 bucks last time I checked, it might have gone up, plus there is shipping. Rip off. I remember when company's gave them for free after shipping. 4 years ago I asked Dell for a restore disk for a friend who'se computer borked and Dell accused me of theft! The punk on the phone was a real wise ass too. The computer was the guys departed dad's computer so we didn't have all the information, and the Dell rep out and out accused me of computer theft, and was really snide about it. Out of the blue. That's what I get for trying to help someone. Manufacturers have gone way downhill.


Sr Tech
Premium
join:2003-01-19
New Britain, CT
kudos:1
reply to signmeuptoo
Be a prick, be the squeaky wheel. I would complain and rant and keep asking for someone higher in the food chain until they give in. Sorry but that's just me, if I bought something and it failed I would expect a resolution.