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This is a sub-selection from Peering agreements

guppy_fish
Premium Member
join:2003-12-09
Palm Harbor, FL

6 recommendations

guppy_fish to davidc502

Premium Member

to davidc502

Re: Peering agreements

said by davidc502:

Netflix is now starting to fight back against this corporate greed

That's the funniest post I have ever seen about this, in case you don't know there is zero difference between the company's, there both publicly traded corporations.

All Netflx is pissed about is that THERE not getting as much PROFIT, that's it

PlusOne
@50.182.54.x

-3 recommendations

PlusOne

Anon

said by guppy_fish:

said by davidc502:

Netflix is now starting to fight back against this corporate greed

That's the funniest post I have ever seen about this, in case you don't know there is zero difference between the company's, there both publicly traded corporations.

All Netflx is pissed about is that THERE not getting as much PROFIT, that's it

+1

jmn1207
Premium Member
join:2000-07-19
Sterling, VA

6 recommendations

jmn1207 to guppy_fish

Premium Member

to guppy_fish
They are probably upset that they have to pay multiple times for the same service, when they really should only have to pay their own ISP once.

davidc502
join:2002-03-06
Mount Juliet, TN

davidc502 to guppy_fish

Member

to guppy_fish
said by guppy_fish:

That's the funniest post I have ever seen about this, in case you don't know there is zero difference between the company's, there both publicly traded corporations.

All Netflx is pissed about is that THERE not getting as much PROFIT, that's it

That has absolutely nothing to do with the price of beans in China!

You're just trying to confuse the issue.
davidc502

4 recommendations

davidc502 to jmn1207

Member

to jmn1207
said by jmn1207:

They are probably upset that they have to pay multiple times for the same service, when they really should only have to pay their own ISP once.

Bingo! As they have pointed out many times before... They consider it to be double dipping.

pumpkinhead7
join:2002-06-14
Clarksburg, WV

4 recommendations

pumpkinhead7 to guppy_fish

Member

to guppy_fish
You cant be serious? You have to be trolling or an industry shill.

Anyone in their right mind can see that netflix is 100% in the right on this issue, the ISPs need to start doing what they are supposed to be doing which is providing a service for pay instead of expecting to get paid 15x for the same traffic.
silbaco
Premium Member
join:2009-08-03
USA

1 recommendation

silbaco to jmn1207

Premium Member

to jmn1207
How is Netflix paying multiple times? Whether they pay Cogent or Verizon/Comcast, they are only paying to reach that set of customers once. At no point are they paying multiple times to reach a single customer.
BlueC
join:2009-11-26
Minneapolis, MN

1 recommendation

BlueC to guppy_fish

Member

to guppy_fish
said by guppy_fish:

That's the funniest post I have ever seen about this, in case you don't know there is zero difference between the company's, there both publicly traded corporations.

All Netflx is pissed about is that THERE not getting as much PROFIT, that's it

Poor grammar aside, your argument does not in any way address the overall issue regarding settlement-free peering. I feel you missed that point completely.

davidc502
join:2002-03-06
Mount Juliet, TN

davidc502

Member

Hence my earlier comment about China~!

Agreed! Completely.

TuxRaiderPen2
Make America Great Again
join:2009-09-19

TuxRaiderPen2 to davidc502

Member

to davidc502
said by davidc502:
That has absolutely nothing to do with the price of beans in China!

You're just trying to confuse the issue.
Note entirely... If they have to pay THEIR ISP, PAYOFF VZW, and CONCAST then that payment ultimately effects the bottom line, and hence.. didn't they just announce a PRICE INCREASE??? (Have no idea what it was or effected if it applied to their slimey streaming service or their cracked, scratched and ruined DVD service..)

I agree with you on the first part, but ont his part.. higher costs to the company means one of two things

1) LESS PROFIT
2) PRICE INCREASE to offset supply costs

You can guess which one companies pick.
TuxRaiderPen2

TuxRaiderPen2 to BlueC

Member

to BlueC
said by BlueC:
your argument does not in any way address the overall issue regarding settlement-free peering. I feel you missed that point completely.
Becuase said companies VZW and concast, and others waiting to get in on this now, do NOT WANT SETTLEMENT FREE PEERING. They are going to hold subs ransom to nethax, hulucrap, et al.

jmn1207
Premium Member
join:2000-07-19
Sterling, VA

1 recommendation

jmn1207 to silbaco

Premium Member

to silbaco
said by silbaco:

How is Netflix paying multiple times? Whether they pay Cogent or Verizon/Comcast...

They should not have to pay Cogent AND a captive customer's ISP. It's not Cogent OR Comcast/Verizon/AT&T/Cox/Time Warner Cable/etc. They still have to pay Cogent to get their data to the customer's ISP. That should be it.

davidc502
join:2002-03-06
Mount Juliet, TN

davidc502

Member

said by jmn1207:

They should not have to pay Cogent AND a captive customer's ISP. It's not Cogent OR Comcast/Verizon/AT&T/Cox/Time Warner Cable/etc. They still have to pay Cogent to get their data to the customer's ISP. That should be it.

+1 ---

The peering agreements should be Settlement FREE! Why? Because Comcast would no longer have to pay fees for the GigaBytes of data entering their egress, and Netflix would no longer have to pay Cogent.

Both sides mutually benefit from the peering by saving money. Apparently that's not good enough for some ISPs. That point is what has so many people ticked off.

nekkidtruth
YISMM
Premium Member
join:2002-05-20
London, ON

nekkidtruth to TuxRaiderPen2

Premium Member

to TuxRaiderPen2
It's so hard to take you seriously with all the ridiculous nicknames.
silbaco
Premium Member
join:2009-08-03
USA

1 edit

silbaco to davidc502

Premium Member

to davidc502
Comcast supposedly has settlement free peering with Cogent. They were never paying for Netflix traffic.
silbaco

silbaco to jmn1207

Premium Member

to jmn1207
It is an either or. They are either paying Cogent (or however else they used) or Comcast/Verizon/etc. for paid peering.

The Comcast deal is an interconnect deal. They are not paying Cogent anything for Comcast customers. A Verizon deal would likely be the same.

davidc502
join:2002-03-06
Mount Juliet, TN

davidc502 to silbaco

Member

to silbaco
said by silbaco:

Comcast supposedly has settlement free peering with Cogent. They were never paying for Netflix traffic.

That very well could be, it's the first I've heard, but entirely possible.

Say the scenario is correct.

1. Comcast has a settlement free peering agreement with cogent
2. Netflix is/was paying cogent for transit to get to Comcast network.

Now, instead of Netflix paying Cogent, they are paying Comcast. It sounds okay until you think about it for just a moment. Now that Comcast has cracked the peering nut, other ISPs will want to get paid (Verizon), and suddenly Netflix is paying a hell of a lot more for individual peering agreements than it ever did with Cogent. I'm just saying it's a slippery slope, and could very will happen in the future, and I think that's what Netflix is hoping to avoid.

nekkidtruth
YISMM
Premium Member
join:2002-05-20
London, ON

nekkidtruth

Premium Member

That's only part of the equation. You're actually leaving out the part where Comcast charges their customers for access to the Internet while now charging Netflix access to customers who are already paying to have access to the Internet.

davidc502
join:2002-03-06
Mount Juliet, TN

davidc502

Member

said by nekkidtruth:

That's only part of the equation. You're actually leaving out the part where Comcast charges their customers for access to the Internet while now charging Netflix access to customers who are already paying to have access to the Internet.

I happily stand corrected.

cheers

jmn1207
Premium Member
join:2000-07-19
Sterling, VA

jmn1207

Premium Member

Also, there will always be a next victim for Comcast and other ISPs to extort. It will not stop. The problem is the captive customer base the ISPs enjoy that allow for this terrible anti-competitive situation to thrive.
accord1999
join:2011-10-14
Calgary, AB

accord1999 to davidc502

Member

to davidc502
said by davidc502:

Now that Comcast has cracked the peering nut, other ISPs will want to get paid (Verizon), and suddenly Netflix is paying a hell of a lot more for individual peering agreements than it ever did with Cogent

What Netflix pays out in peering agreements is balanced by what it no longer needs to pay Cogent.

In total it may end up being higher, it may be lower, but regardless it's going to be more reliable.

jmn1207
Premium Member
join:2000-07-19
Sterling, VA

1 recommendation

jmn1207

Premium Member

said by accord1999:

In total it may end up being higher, it may be lower, but regardless it's going to be more reliable.

It's only as reliable as the ISPs want it to be. At any time they are free to disrupt service again until they get more money. With Cogent, at least Netflix has choices. Now there are no choices to be made if they hope to stay in business.

davidc502
join:2002-03-06
Mount Juliet, TN

davidc502

Member

said by jmn1207:

It's only as reliable as the ISPs want it to be.

That's the crux or the underlying issues with Net Neutrality moving forward.
accord1999
join:2011-10-14
Calgary, AB

accord1999 to jmn1207

Member

to jmn1207
said by jmn1207:

It's only as reliable as the ISPs want it to be.

It'll be as as reliable as the SLA agreed upon.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium Member
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

2 recommendations

KrK to guppy_fish

Premium Member

to guppy_fish
... and in the process, Verizon, Comcast, and at&t and destroying the Internet as it exists now and turning it into another vehicle of excessive profit and total control.

So, yeah, screw them, and go Netflix.
KrK

KrK to silbaco

Premium Member

to silbaco
Are you dense? They are having to pay Transit carriers PLUS now the ISP itself to allow their data through, IE paying multiple times for the exact same data to reach the same single user. If you use a postage or parcel delivery analogy it's like having to pay full costs to ship something to someone then also have to pay a toll troll to actually have it delivered.

jmn1207
Premium Member
join:2000-07-19
Sterling, VA

jmn1207 to accord1999

Premium Member

to accord1999
said by accord1999:

It'll be as as reliable as the SLA agreed upon.

Again, because there are no other choices available, this SLA is reliant on one party holding all the cards. Netflix really doesn't have much impact on this, and they have to agree with anything that the ISP demands.


KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium Member
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
Netgear WNDR3700v2
Zoom 5341J

3 recommendations

KrK to jmn1207

Premium Member

to jmn1207
Exactly. "Hey look, I see our agreement is expiring, time for us to "renegotiate". OK, here's the huge check we paid you last time.... "OH no, no, ho ho ho. Expenses have increased. Inflation, the CEO's golden parachute, you name it. Effective immediately, you will pay us 4 times the old amount." WHAT?!? That's EXTORTION!! "I'm sorry, did you say something? Oh look at that, it appears your video streams performance have suddenly become oversaturated..... wow look at that quality drop, massive buffering. Sheesh, sucks to be you...... oh your customers are complaining and cancelling? We're so sorry about that.... but HEY! We have a solution! Just sign here!" "Wow! Look at that! Overnight everything's back to normal..... GREAT DOING BUSINESS WITH YOU. BYE!"

davidc502
join:2002-03-06
Mount Juliet, TN

davidc502

Member

That's one of the main reasons why Netflix has put up a Banner when performance dives and starts to buffer. The banner is displayed to customers stating it's the ISP's network that is congested (Not Netflix), and to please try again later.

Netflix doesn't really have any leverage.

binded
@74.103.216.x

binded to guppy_fish

Anon

to guppy_fish
You got It wrong Netflix it's rolling in the profit your paying for a service they can't provide because your ISP is messing with your data streams it's you that's not getting what you should be receiving
And you should be the one pissed
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