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Boricua
Premium
join:2002-01-26
Sacramuerto
reply to chachazz

Re: [Firefox] Firefox 30

What with all these FFs? I've been with #18 and probably staying with it as I like the interface.
--
Illegal aliens have always been a problem in the United States. Ask any Indian. Robert Orben



darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
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Forest Grove, OR
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Frontier FiOS

said by Boricua:

What with all these FFs?

Where have you been? FF moved to a rapid release schedule two years ago or so.
--
♬ Dragon of good fortune struggles with the trickster Fox ♬


capdjq
Premium
join:2000-11-01
Vancouver

Why is it that every time I update my FF, I have to re-do all my personalized Search Engines I have painfully installed in my Search Bar. Even re-installing the previous Profile doesn't help.



StyxKee

join:2001-07-05
GTA, Canada

1 recommendation

said by capdjq:

Why is it that every time I update my FF, I have to re-do all my personalized Search Engines I have painfully installed in my Search Bar. Even re-installing the previous Profile doesn't help.

If I remember correctly, I made copies of the following search related files/folder from my profile and reuse them if necessary:
1. "search.json" file
2. "search-metadata.json" file
3. "searchplugins" folder and all its content


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
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join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7

3 edits
reply to Boricua

said by Boricua:

What with all these FFs?

I've been with #18 and probably staying with it as I like the interface.

 
I have been saying that too, and as such had kept FF 14 on my XP and Vista PCs for over a year, while the newest FF version number ticked upward every few times that I wiped my arse.

But recently, I yielded to the 'guilting' of some others here, and began to investigate my options, because the Australis UI debacle surrounding FF 29 had gotten my attention as it was getting other peoples' goats.

After trying FF 29.0.1 and being grossed out by the new UI, I began to test the Portable versions of Pale Moon 24.5.0, and Sea Monkey 2.26, and discovered that the Pale Moon, which claims to use the same UI as FF 24.5.x ESR edition (and FF 28 regular edition), with no plans to change to Australis, proved to be customizable to look EXACTLY like my FF 14.

Therefive, as an interim measure, while I test those alternate 2 browsers further, I manually installed to upgrade my FF 14 to FF 24.5.0 ESR, and kept my auto-updates disabled.

The result was almost zero change in the UI, and what little which there was, I could adjust back to look like FF 14 with the normal internal options.

I was forced to change one of my older add-ons to another of similar function, and I chose to upgrade one or two others, even though the earlier versions continued to work fine.

Still, I may yet switch to Pale Moon, where all of my latest FireFox add-ons seem to be 100% compatible, and PM has a profile importing too specifically written for current FireFox users.

I also like Sea Monkey, however, my most important FF add-on (Tab Mix Plus) will not work there, so I have been searching for and piecing together most of the important parts of its functionality from several smaller add-ons, and if I get a good enough result, I may switch to Sea Monkey as my first browser.

--

We have only 2 things about which to worry :
(1) That things may never get back to normal
(2) That they already HAVE !
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Change for the Sake of Change is NOT Necessarily Progress
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howardfine

join:2002-08-09
Saint Louis, MO

Most people here seem to think "all the FFs" are only about the interface and never think about what's going on under the hood and the engine under the hood of FF is entirely different than version 14 or 18.

Since I'm using a car analogy, you can almost think of it like this since I develop web sites. You're pulling into my web site garage in your 1953 Studebaker and ask me to fill it up and check the oil and I don't even know where hood latch on that thing is.

iow, not only are you missing out on security updates, you're missing out on functionality, and my company quit testing our client sites for those early versions of Firefox long ago.



Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
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2 edits

1 recommendation

said by howardfine:

Most people here seem to think "all the FFs" are only about the interface, and never think about what's going on under the hood, and the engine under the hood of [newer] FF is entirely different than version 14 or 18....

 
I do realize all of that, but when I wear my 'non-techie hat', I want to be the same as the average user, who only sees the UI, and I just want to look at my web pages and/or get my work done, without having to relearn how to do it every 6 fucking months.

If the FireFox developers had ANY consideration for the public, they would not force-feed us irreversible (within the FF menu structure) UI changes in order for us to have the allegedly needed security improvements.

The two things should not be bundled, and PaleMoon (for example) understands that folks are pissed at the latest round of UI changes from FireFox.

Pale Moon devs have demonstrated and proven to us that the UI changes do not necessarily need to be tied to the security updates, and now that the word is out about that, FireFox is losing even more users than when only Google Chrome was attracting some of them.

As I keep suggesting/lamenting/ranting (you choose), all that is required to keep us happy is for the FF devs to include within the menu structure the option for the user to choose previous UI structure(s), and we will gladly take any and all security updates without question.

It's really that simple, otherwise add-ons to do it would not have been so quickly written.

One last thought for now :

This could be an opportune time for the FF devs to get into the add-on 'business'.

THEY could issue FireFox endorsed add-ons which are fully tested (as those would contain the older UI code written by the same teams) to give us the way to roll back the UI on newer browser editions.

They could still be heroes - once again.

FireFox was originally about choice, and still could be, without forcing us to seek 3rd-party add-ons or alternate browsers to get it.

= = = = =

BTW, my father's first two cars were Studebakers - 1951 and 1957.

--

We have only 2 things about which to worry :
(1) That things may never get back to normal
(2) That they already HAVE !
-
Change for the Sake of Change is NOT Necessarily Progress
-
START Forum »Start Communications


howardfine

join:2002-08-09
Saint Louis, MO

said by Davesnothere:

It's really that simple

If it was that simple, everyone would be doing it, and it's not that simple. While PaleMoon seems to be popular here, I've never read about it anywhere else nor seen it in my server logs (though it's probably ID'd as Mozilla).

said by Davesnothere:

This could be an opportune time for the FF devs to get into the add-on 'business'.

Then they'd hear from every add-on developer about how FF screwed them. On top of that, they need to be written and maintained and Mozilla isn't that big of a company.

But that's why the opportunity to develop add-ons by others is there.
Expand your moderator at work


Davesnothere
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1 edit

1 recommendation

reply to howardfine

Re: [Firefox] Firefox 30

said by howardfine:

said by Davesnothere:

It's really that simple

If it was that simple, everyone would be doing it, and it's not that simple.

While PaleMoon seems to be popular here, I've never read about it anywhere else nor seen it in my server logs (though it's probably ID'd as Mozilla).

I too expect that PM is ID'd as Mozilla, to keep website developers from worrying and recoding.

Unfortunately, it makes clear usage stats hard to compile.

Same likely applies with SeaMonkey, though it is less similar in UI to the last several versions of FireFox (though it claims to be otherwise current, in security and other under-the-hood functions).

said by howardfine:

said by Davesnothere:

This could be an opportune time for the FF devs to get into the add-on 'business'.

Then they'd hear from every add-on developer about how FF screwed them.

But it's OK for FireFox to screw their userbase instead.

Right.

Now THAT's common sense.

said by howardfine:

On top of that, they need to be written and maintained and Mozilla isn't that big of a company.

Oddly, Pale Moon, who is smaller, 'rewrote' and delivered us a complete alternate working solution, and as a bonus, it seems to have maintained compatibility with the vast majority of existing add-ons, rather than breaking them, as newer FF versions with the Australis UI do.

said by howardfine:

But that's why the opportunity to develop add-ons by others is there.

That's a cop-out hindsight-based answer, IMNSHO.

But I like your screen name, nyuk, nyuk.

--

We have only 2 things about which to worry :
(1) That things may never get back to normal
(2) That they already HAVE !
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Change for the Sake of Change is NOT Necessarily Progress
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START Forum »Start Communications
Expand your moderator at work


howardfine

join:2002-08-09
Saint Louis, MO
reply to Davesnothere

Re: [Firefox] Firefox 30

said by Davesnothere:

But it's OK for FireFox to screw their userbase instead.

Well, just cause you don't like it, doesn't mean no one does. Firefox does pretty well for itself.

Personally, I use very few add ons, and, the few I do use, are only web dev related, so I sort of don't care.


Racerbob
Premium
join:2001-06-24
Webster, NY
kudos:1

Well sure Firefox does well for itself, except their market share is dropping like a rock into the single numbers.



darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Frontier FiOS


said by Racerbob:

Well sure Firefox does well for itself, except their market share is dropping like a rock into the single numbers.

Source?
--
♬ Dragon of good fortune struggles with the trickster Fox ♬


Racerbob
Premium
join:2001-06-24
Webster, NY
kudos:1

said by darcilicious:

Source?

Sorry, not single numbers just yet.

»www.cbsnews.com/news/google-hits···browser/

»www.cmo.com/articles/2014/6/2/ad···war.html


darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
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Reviews:
·Frontier FiOS

Yeah, you got to watch those numbers -- if they include "mobile" usage then you need to be aware there is no Firefox browser on any mobile device.

If you limit to just desktops, then the numbers are slight different (not as "dire") -- but there's definitely a decline for Firefox even on the desktop.
--
♬ Dragon of good fortune struggles with the trickster Fox ♬



Racerbob
Premium
join:2001-06-24
Webster, NY
kudos:1

There is no Firefox browser on any mobile device ?

»www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/android/

But it sure does seem that Chrome is picking up steam.



darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
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Oops, you're right. No Firefox on iOS...

I agree with you about Chrome's numbers!
--
♬ Dragon of good fortune struggles with the trickster Fox ♬



Racerbob
Premium
join:2001-06-24
Webster, NY
kudos:1

1 edit

2 recommendations

At any rate, I am about to uninstall Firefox and take the Pale Moon dive all the way. Firefox 29.0.1 was ok, but something has changed in 30.0 and I am tired of seeing all of the various issues that I am currently seeing with 30.0. Even Classic Theme Restorer seems to be forgetting my settings and I am not going to fart around with my UI each and ever time I open the browser. Enough already.

EDIT: Done deal. Pale Moon all the way for now.



Davesnothere
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said by Racerbob:

At any rate, I am about to uninstall Firefox and take the Pale Moon dive all the way....

 
Best wishes with Pale Moon !

So are you saying that FF 30 does some things differently than even 29.0.1 ?

Does FF 30 break Classic Theme Restorer ?

If FF is doing all of this to keep the add-on authors busy, they are doing a good job of THAT

Somehow, I reckon that the add-on authors would appreciate perhaps a wee bit less work on their plates.


Racerbob
Premium
join:2001-06-24
Webster, NY
kudos:1

Well I am saying that it was doing enough stupid things as to where I just do not want to mess with it anymore. I tried multiple things. Upgrading, clean installs, etc. Also was using Revo Pro to make sure that all remnants of everything was removed each time. One add on that I absolutely depend on when I use Facebook (Social Fixer) was totally borked and doing stupid stuff. Either way, I also had been playing with Pale Moon. So a little while ago tonight I totally uninstalled both browsers and then just installed the latest Pale Moon and all is well.



MarkRH
Premium
join:2005-02-08
Oklahoma City, OK
reply to Davesnothere

Classic Theme Restorer is working fine for me with FF30 and the options I've selected with it: Tabs on Bottom, Square Tabs, etc. I also have Pale Moon installed for continued comparison. Right now I can't tell the main UIs apart. Some of the other UI elements are different.



Davesnothere
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START Today!
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4 edits

said by MarkRH:

Classic Theme Restorer is working fine for me with FF30 and the options I've selected with it : Tabs on Bottom, Square Tabs, etc.

I also have Pale Moon installed for continued comparison.

Right now I can't tell the main UIs apart.

Some of the other UI elements are different.

 
Do you use the traditional Menu bar ?

Can CTR put that back into plain view ?

Gotta have the Menu bar, else FF is just a Chrome copy-cat.

Also, I use and like Tab Mix Plus, which has worked for me all the way from FF 10 thru to FF 24.x ESR (and regular FF 28), and with current Pale Moon.

AFAIK, TMP does not work with FF 29+.

That alone would be a deal-breaker for me, but there were other UI oddities which I experienced/endured, on the day when I tried FF 29.0.1.


MarkRH
Premium
join:2005-02-08
Oklahoma City, OK

said by Davesnothere:

Do you use the traditional Menu bar ?

Can CTR put that back into plain view ?

Gotta have the Menu bar, else FF is just a Chrome copy-cat.

Also, I use and like Tab Mix Plus, which has worked for me all the way from FF 10 thru to FF 24.x ESR (and regular FF 28), and with current Pale Moon.

AFAIK, TMP does not work with FF 29+.

That alone would be a deal-breaker for me, but there were other UI oddities which I experienced/endured, on the day when I tried FF 29.0.1.

Well, here's a screen shot of my FF30 with CTR:




I am using Windows 7 Pro 64bit with a Windows Classic Theme. I've got a normal Menu bar with a proper looking title bar (I don't even think CTR is required for that). Tabs on bottom with squared tabs. I also have Tab Mix Plus 0.4.1.3.1 installed and it works fine for what I use it for. The only thing that might not work is some of the custom tab styles as far as the background colors go as it expects the rounded tabs. CTR can handle that though.

The status bar on the bottom is Status-4-Evar 2014.05.03.06 (I have CTR's Add-On bar disabled).


anonomeX

@71.207.157.x

Shhhhh, if you're not careful, you're going to have them thinking that all of their histrionics over Australis have been just so much wasted time.



Racerbob
Premium
join:2001-06-24
Webster, NY
kudos:1

The average computer user does not want to jump through hoops (and doesn't have the knowledge) to configure a browser to look and operate the way they want it to run. My 85 year old (tomorrow) dad hasn't a clue how to do any of this stuff using Classic Theme Restorer. Hey Mozilla, we are not all geeks here. Pale Moon rocks.



MarkRH
Premium
join:2005-02-08
Oklahoma City, OK

1 recommendation

said by Racerbob:

The average computer user does not want to jump through hoops (and doesn't have the knowledge) to configure a browser to look and operate the way they want it to run. My 85 year old (tomorrow) dad hasn't a clue how to do any of this stuff using Classic Theme Restorer. Hey Mozilla, we are not all geeks here. Pale Moon rocks.

This is true. I actually got my mom to prefer Firefox over IE because she could surf the net much quicker and more responsively. But, yes, I would have to configure the newer UI for her. Her new laptop has Windows 8 and she can't stand the UI changes on it (neither can I). Her older desktop has Windows XP.


StyxKee

join:2001-07-05
GTA, Canada
reply to Davesnothere

said by Davesnothere:

AFAIK, TMP does not work with FF 29+.

That alone would be a deal-breaker for me, but there were other UI oddities which I experienced/endured, on the day when I tried FF 29.0.1.

If you do not mind a bit of tinkering of TMP, you will find the instructions on page 75 of the TMP Dev Build Forum about half way down the page (read WildcatRay's summary of Chris000001's edits/modifications).

Here is the link to the page. The edit works great for me:
»tmp.garyr.net/forum/viewtopic.ph···0#p65047


Racerbob
Premium
join:2001-06-24
Webster, NY
kudos:1

Non geeks do not wish to tinker. That is the point I was trying to make. The developers at Mozilla seem to want to make people tinker to get things that they are used to using to work.



Davesnothere
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4 edits
reply to StyxKee

said by StyxKee:

said by Davesnothere:

AFAIK, TMP does not work with FF 29+.

That alone would be a deal-breaker for me, but there were other UI oddities which I experienced/endured, on the day when I tried FF 29.0.1.

If you do not mind a bit of tinkering of TMP, you will find the instructions on page 75 of the TMP Dev Build Forum about half way down the page (read WildcatRay's summary of Chris000001's edits/modifications).

Here is the link to the page. The edit works great for me:
»tmp.garyr.net/forum/viewtopic.ph···0#p65047

 
Thanks for that permalink.

I forgot to go there and read the post until yesTURDay, while reviewing this thread.

LOOOONG thread at that link !

Fortunately though, I had only the day before discovered that the author of Tab Mix Plus had revised it to play nice with the new and notorious Australis UI, so I did not need to read all of it.

And just before THAT, I had been feeling bored, so I had already done a fresh install of FireFox 30 Portable edition, to show my sense of openmindedness by testing Australis one last time, and as I was curious about how it would behave if it was tamed by 'Classic Theme Restorer'.

After adding CTR to the nasty-looking FF30 and restarting, I was pleasantly surprised by the resultant instant retromorph, and by most of CTR's defaults.

After tinkering a bit, I decided to investigate which of my usual add-ons were compatible, and among them, I did a search for Tab Mix Plus, and I got a hit which was not greyed out !

So I installed, and it turns out that the newest TMP (and all of my other few add-ons) work with FF30.

Also working were a couple of lines of CSS which I had been using to manipulate earlier FireFox's menues to look like even EARLIER FireFox's menues.

= = = = =

"So Dave", the readers all exclaimed impatiently, "What exactly are you saying ?"

= = = = =

What I am saying, folks, is that if I could only discover one or two significant redeeming improvements in FF 29+ (with CTR added of course) which made MY web browsing experience better/easier than before FF29, without changing how I do things, nor changing my layout much after tweaking, and fully supporting my other few add-ons, that I might be prepared to conduct a longer test of it.

= = = = =

"Dream on !", said the naysayers in the peanuts gallery.

= = = = =

Yes, I realize full well that I am asking a lot here, but it is also a major concession from my most recent previous position about the new 'AustralisFox'.

Anyway, there WERE a few things on my wish list even for FireFox 28-, and so I decided to see whether Australis/CTR might deliver.

Wish #1 was that I had wanted to use even less vertical space at the top of my window for my controls, but WITHOUT HIDING ANYTHING, and with my TABs still NOT 'On Top'.

So far, I had previously merged all of the elements of my Navigation bar into my Menu bar, and turned off the Nav bar, and had been happy with that arrangement for nearly a year in FireFox 10, 14, and then 24esr and PaleMoon 24.x series.

What if I could get rid of the Title bar ? (as I generally know what page I am browsing, and if I ever forgot, I could just scroll to the top of whatever page)

It turns out that FF Australis/CTR let me hide the Title bar (though not the Navigation bar, and I'll get to that in a bit).

When I did so, everything which was part of my Menu bar (including the former Nav bar elements, remember ?) all smartly moved to the top row, and the CTR Menu button was at the far left in the same row.

K00L !

Now about the Nav bar not being hide-able - I simply went to 'Customize', and moved all of the elements of my Bookmarks bar to the empty Nav bar, and then turned off the now-empty Bookmarks bar.

One other side issue was that some of the buttons became hard to see on the default navy blue top bar, so I looked at some simple, what they call 'solid' themes, found several which used lighter colours, and chose one - issue solved.

Recap :

Move all of yer stuff onto the bars which you cannot hide, and hide any empty bars which you can.

Summary :

I saved about 20% of the vertical space of my top bars, given back to the web page content, and did not hide/remove any controls.

Now I have only 3 - Menu/Nav, Bookmarks, Tabs.

To me, THIS qualifies as significant.

Gonna play some more, and will likely have another update soon.

Cheers !

--

We have only 2 things about which to worry :
(1) That things may never get back to normal
(2) That they already HAVE !
-
Change for the Sake of Change is NOT Necessarily Progress
-
START Forum »Start Communications