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Davesnothere
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1 edit

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reply to howardfine

Re: [Firefox] Firefox 30

said by howardfine:

said by Davesnothere:

It's really that simple

If it was that simple, everyone would be doing it, and it's not that simple.

While PaleMoon seems to be popular here, I've never read about it anywhere else nor seen it in my server logs (though it's probably ID'd as Mozilla).

I too expect that PM is ID'd as Mozilla, to keep website developers from worrying and recoding.

Unfortunately, it makes clear usage stats hard to compile.

Same likely applies with SeaMonkey, though it is less similar in UI to the last several versions of FireFox (though it claims to be otherwise current, in security and other under-the-hood functions).

said by howardfine:

said by Davesnothere:

This could be an opportune time for the FF devs to get into the add-on 'business'.

Then they'd hear from every add-on developer about how FF screwed them.

But it's OK for FireFox to screw their userbase instead.

Right.

Now THAT's common sense.

said by howardfine:

On top of that, they need to be written and maintained and Mozilla isn't that big of a company.

Oddly, Pale Moon, who is smaller, 'rewrote' and delivered us a complete alternate working solution, and as a bonus, it seems to have maintained compatibility with the vast majority of existing add-ons, rather than breaking them, as newer FF versions with the Australis UI do.

said by howardfine:

But that's why the opportunity to develop add-ons by others is there.

That's a cop-out hindsight-based answer, IMNSHO.

But I like your screen name, nyuk, nyuk.

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howardfine

join:2002-08-09
Saint Louis, MO
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said by Davesnothere:

But it's OK for FireFox to screw their userbase instead.

Well, just cause you don't like it, doesn't mean no one does. Firefox does pretty well for itself.

Personally, I use very few add ons, and, the few I do use, are only web dev related, so I sort of don't care.


Racerbob
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Well sure Firefox does well for itself, except their market share is dropping like a rock into the single numbers.


darcilicious
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Forest Grove, OR
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said by Racerbob:

Well sure Firefox does well for itself, except their market share is dropping like a rock into the single numbers.

Source?
--
♬ Dragon of good fortune struggles with the trickster Fox ♬


Racerbob
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darcilicious
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Yeah, you got to watch those numbers -- if they include "mobile" usage then you need to be aware there is no Firefox browser on any mobile device.

If you limit to just desktops, then the numbers are slight different (not as "dire") -- but there's definitely a decline for Firefox even on the desktop.
--
♬ Dragon of good fortune struggles with the trickster Fox ♬


Racerbob
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There is no Firefox browser on any mobile device ?

»www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/android/

But it sure does seem that Chrome is picking up steam.


darcilicious
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Oops, you're right. No Firefox on iOS...

I agree with you about Chrome's numbers!
--
♬ Dragon of good fortune struggles with the trickster Fox ♬


Racerbob
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Webster, NY
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1 edit

2 recommendations

At any rate, I am about to uninstall Firefox and take the Pale Moon dive all the way. Firefox 29.0.1 was ok, but something has changed in 30.0 and I am tired of seeing all of the various issues that I am currently seeing with 30.0. Even Classic Theme Restorer seems to be forgetting my settings and I am not going to fart around with my UI each and ever time I open the browser. Enough already.

EDIT: Done deal. Pale Moon all the way for now.


Davesnothere
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said by Racerbob:

At any rate, I am about to uninstall Firefox and take the Pale Moon dive all the way....

 
Best wishes with Pale Moon !

So are you saying that FF 30 does some things differently than even 29.0.1 ?

Does FF 30 break Classic Theme Restorer ?

If FF is doing all of this to keep the add-on authors busy, they are doing a good job of THAT

Somehow, I reckon that the add-on authors would appreciate perhaps a wee bit less work on their plates.


Racerbob
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Well I am saying that it was doing enough stupid things as to where I just do not want to mess with it anymore. I tried multiple things. Upgrading, clean installs, etc. Also was using Revo Pro to make sure that all remnants of everything was removed each time. One add on that I absolutely depend on when I use Facebook (Social Fixer) was totally borked and doing stupid stuff. Either way, I also had been playing with Pale Moon. So a little while ago tonight I totally uninstalled both browsers and then just installed the latest Pale Moon and all is well.


MarkRH
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Oklahoma City, OK
reply to Davesnothere
Classic Theme Restorer is working fine for me with FF30 and the options I've selected with it: Tabs on Bottom, Square Tabs, etc. I also have Pale Moon installed for continued comparison. Right now I can't tell the main UIs apart. Some of the other UI elements are different.


Davesnothere
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4 edits
said by MarkRH:

Classic Theme Restorer is working fine for me with FF30 and the options I've selected with it : Tabs on Bottom, Square Tabs, etc.

I also have Pale Moon installed for continued comparison.

Right now I can't tell the main UIs apart.

Some of the other UI elements are different.

 
Do you use the traditional Menu bar ?

Can CTR put that back into plain view ?

Gotta have the Menu bar, else FF is just a Chrome copy-cat.

Also, I use and like Tab Mix Plus, which has worked for me all the way from FF 10 thru to FF 24.x ESR (and regular FF 28), and with current Pale Moon.

AFAIK, TMP does not work with FF 29+.

That alone would be a deal-breaker for me, but there were other UI oddities which I experienced/endured, on the day when I tried FF 29.0.1.


MarkRH
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join:2005-02-08
Oklahoma City, OK
said by Davesnothere:

Do you use the traditional Menu bar ?

Can CTR put that back into plain view ?

Gotta have the Menu bar, else FF is just a Chrome copy-cat.

Also, I use and like Tab Mix Plus, which has worked for me all the way from FF 10 thru to FF 24.x ESR (and regular FF 28), and with current Pale Moon.

AFAIK, TMP does not work with FF 29+.

That alone would be a deal-breaker for me, but there were other UI oddities which I experienced/endured, on the day when I tried FF 29.0.1.

Well, here's a screen shot of my FF30 with CTR:




I am using Windows 7 Pro 64bit with a Windows Classic Theme. I've got a normal Menu bar with a proper looking title bar (I don't even think CTR is required for that). Tabs on bottom with squared tabs. I also have Tab Mix Plus 0.4.1.3.1 installed and it works fine for what I use it for. The only thing that might not work is some of the custom tab styles as far as the background colors go as it expects the rounded tabs. CTR can handle that though.

The status bar on the bottom is Status-4-Evar 2014.05.03.06 (I have CTR's Add-On bar disabled).


anonomeX

@71.207.157.x
Shhhhh, if you're not careful, you're going to have them thinking that all of their histrionics over Australis have been just so much wasted time.


Racerbob
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The average computer user does not want to jump through hoops (and doesn't have the knowledge) to configure a browser to look and operate the way they want it to run. My 85 year old (tomorrow) dad hasn't a clue how to do any of this stuff using Classic Theme Restorer. Hey Mozilla, we are not all geeks here. Pale Moon rocks.


MarkRH
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Oklahoma City, OK

1 recommendation

said by Racerbob:

The average computer user does not want to jump through hoops (and doesn't have the knowledge) to configure a browser to look and operate the way they want it to run. My 85 year old (tomorrow) dad hasn't a clue how to do any of this stuff using Classic Theme Restorer. Hey Mozilla, we are not all geeks here. Pale Moon rocks.

This is true. I actually got my mom to prefer Firefox over IE because she could surf the net much quicker and more responsively. But, yes, I would have to configure the newer UI for her. Her new laptop has Windows 8 and she can't stand the UI changes on it (neither can I). Her older desktop has Windows XP.


StyxKee

join:2001-07-05
GTA, Canada
reply to Davesnothere
said by Davesnothere:

AFAIK, TMP does not work with FF 29+.

That alone would be a deal-breaker for me, but there were other UI oddities which I experienced/endured, on the day when I tried FF 29.0.1.

If you do not mind a bit of tinkering of TMP, you will find the instructions on page 75 of the TMP Dev Build Forum about half way down the page (read WildcatRay's summary of Chris000001's edits/modifications).

Here is the link to the page. The edit works great for me:
»tmp.garyr.net/forum/viewtopic.ph···0#p65047


Racerbob
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Non geeks do not wish to tinker. That is the point I was trying to make. The developers at Mozilla seem to want to make people tinker to get things that they are used to using to work.


Davesnothere
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4 edits
reply to StyxKee
said by StyxKee:

said by Davesnothere:

AFAIK, TMP does not work with FF 29+.

That alone would be a deal-breaker for me, but there were other UI oddities which I experienced/endured, on the day when I tried FF 29.0.1.

If you do not mind a bit of tinkering of TMP, you will find the instructions on page 75 of the TMP Dev Build Forum about half way down the page (read WildcatRay's summary of Chris000001's edits/modifications).

Here is the link to the page. The edit works great for me:
»tmp.garyr.net/forum/viewtopic.ph···0#p65047

 
Thanks for that permalink.

I forgot to go there and read the post until yesTURDay, while reviewing this thread.

LOOOONG thread at that link !

Fortunately though, I had only the day before discovered that the author of Tab Mix Plus had revised it to play nice with the new and notorious Australis UI, so I did not need to read all of it.

And just before THAT, I had been feeling bored, so I had already done a fresh install of FireFox 30 Portable edition, to show my sense of openmindedness by testing Australis one last time, and as I was curious about how it would behave if it was tamed by 'Classic Theme Restorer'.

After adding CTR to the nasty-looking FF30 and restarting, I was pleasantly surprised by the resultant instant retromorph, and by most of CTR's defaults.

After tinkering a bit, I decided to investigate which of my usual add-ons were compatible, and among them, I did a search for Tab Mix Plus, and I got a hit which was not greyed out !

So I installed, and it turns out that the newest TMP (and all of my other few add-ons) work with FF30.

Also working were a couple of lines of CSS which I had been using to manipulate earlier FireFox's menues to look like even EARLIER FireFox's menues.

= = = = =

"So Dave", the readers all exclaimed impatiently, "What exactly are you saying ?"

= = = = =

What I am saying, folks, is that if I could only discover one or two significant redeeming improvements in FF 29+ (with CTR added of course) which made MY web browsing experience better/easier than before FF29, without changing how I do things, nor changing my layout much after tweaking, and fully supporting my other few add-ons, that I might be prepared to conduct a longer test of it.

= = = = =

"Dream on !", said the naysayers in the peanuts gallery.

= = = = =

Yes, I realize full well that I am asking a lot here, but it is also a major concession from my most recent previous position about the new 'AustralisFox'.

Anyway, there WERE a few things on my wish list even for FireFox 28-, and so I decided to see whether Australis/CTR might deliver.

Wish #1 was that I had wanted to use even less vertical space at the top of my window for my controls, but WITHOUT HIDING ANYTHING, and with my TABs still NOT 'On Top'.

So far, I had previously merged all of the elements of my Navigation bar into my Menu bar, and turned off the Nav bar, and had been happy with that arrangement for nearly a year in FireFox 10, 14, and then 24esr and PaleMoon 24.x series.

What if I could get rid of the Title bar ? (as I generally know what page I am browsing, and if I ever forgot, I could just scroll to the top of whatever page)

It turns out that FF Australis/CTR let me hide the Title bar (though not the Navigation bar, and I'll get to that in a bit).

When I did so, everything which was part of my Menu bar (including the former Nav bar elements, remember ?) all smartly moved to the top row, and the CTR Menu button was at the far left in the same row.

K00L !

Now about the Nav bar not being hide-able - I simply went to 'Customize', and moved all of the elements of my Bookmarks bar to the empty Nav bar, and then turned off the now-empty Bookmarks bar.

One other side issue was that some of the buttons became hard to see on the default navy blue top bar, so I looked at some simple, what they call 'solid' themes, found several which used lighter colours, and chose one - issue solved.

Recap :

Move all of yer stuff onto the bars which you cannot hide, and hide any empty bars which you can.

Summary :

I saved about 20% of the vertical space of my top bars, given back to the web page content, and did not hide/remove any controls.

Now I have only 3 - Menu/Nav, Bookmarks, Tabs.

To me, THIS qualifies as significant.

Gonna play some more, and will likely have another update soon.

Cheers !

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We have only 2 things about which to worry :
(1) That things may never get back to normal
(2) That they already HAVE !
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Change for the Sake of Change is NOT Necessarily Progress
-
START Forum »Start Communications


Davesnothere
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4 edits
Click for full size
HERE is how FireFox 30 looks now, in a full screen grab of my 1280x1024 native res monitor ^^^

Displayed are the other few add-ons which I already use, plus 'Classic Theme Restorer' and 'Throbber Restored'.

I also decided to test 'Personal Menu', as I have been using 'Movable FireFox Button' (from the same author) with my earlier FireFox and with PaleMoon.

The 'FireFox Button' which you see above belongs to the 'Personal Menu' add-on, is editable and movable, and I have turned off the one which belongs to 'Classic Theme Restorer'.

No browser elements were hidden.

The Windows task bar is on the LEFT-hand side, a 10+ year thing with me.

Please note how much height that there is for the web page content.