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[Cable] Why doesn't TSI automatically add ZTC on 300 GB Plans?I currently have a 300 GB plan and was wondering why doesn't Teksavvy automatically add Zap the Cap when the user gets to 300 GB? This way they don't have to worry about their usage levels and if they want full speed unlimited, they can always move up a tier.
To me, this would be a really good customer focused way of dealing with billing issues:
- You don't have to worry about overages which means happy customers
- You can enjoy the FULL speed of the service you are paying for and not have to be throttled down
- You would be one of the few ISP's that would have done away with the usage monitoring.
I understand that there will be lost revenue with this approach (aka no overage charges that TSI can make).
What's wrong with this approach? |
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 TSI GabeRouter of Packets
Premium Member
join:2007-01-03
Gatineau, QC |
TSI Gabe
Premium Member
2014-Jun-13 7:32 pm
It's a matter of choice, not everyone needs/wants to be rate limited at certain times of the day. |
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 TSI Andre
Premium Member
join:2008-06-03
Chatham, ON |
said by TSI Gabe:It's a matter of choice, not everyone needs/wants to be rate limited at certain times of the day. +1 |
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to TSI Gabe
You won't be limited unless you go over your limit and safeguarding excess costs. |
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cbluser
Anon
2014-Jun-13 8:08 pm
I think you may misunderstand how ZTC works. You won't get any benefit from ZTC unless it's enabled for the entire month. You can't just turn it on when your close to your limit and have unlimited for the rest of the month, it needs to be on the entire month. |
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 RizzleQCunningham's Law Enthusiast
Premium Member
join:2006-01-12
Windsor, ON
Ubiquiti U6-LR
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to hightech
Yeah, but some people deliberately want to download insane amounts per month AND do not want slower speeds in the evening and night. Those same people will accept overage charges since they max out at $50 per month (on most packages). So, their monthly bill will be their monthly cost + $50 for technically unlimited usage at full speeds. They do not subscribe to unlimited packages because some months they won't go over 300GB so they accept sometimes getting charged overages. |
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to hightech
I personally do not want ZTC at all. Besides if people are downloading at full tilt for the first part if the month then Teksavvy will have huge bills to pay. Does not make sense at all unless Teksavvy had everyone's start of their 300 gigs on different days and balanced. Everyone starts on the first of the month if I remember correctly so that is not the case today. |
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to hightech
...and then there's people like me who do not use more than 300gb/month and don't want lower speeds. |
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RizzleQCunningham's Law Enthusiast
Premium Member
join:2006-01-12
Windsor, ON Ubiquiti UDM-Pro
Ubiquiti U6-LR
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to hightech
A better idea is to make it an OPTION to automatically enable ZTC once you go over 300GB. I would be in favour of TSI introducing a check box titled "Temporary & Automatic ZTC" where it would enable ZTC automatically once usage hits 299 GB and then disable it on the last day of the month so it is disabled the next month and only re-enable if you were about to go over the cap again. |
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said by RizzleQ:A better idea is to make it an OPTION to automatically enable ZtC once you go over 300GB. For TekSavvy, a user that maxes his line during peak before ZtC automatically becomes enabled would costs more money than a user with ZtC enabled for the whole month so I don't think this would be a viable option. |
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to RizzleQ
I don't think you understand how ztc works or how the tariff usage system works and why teksavvy has ztc to move their heavy users downloads to off peak times in order to save money. ZTC only works in the middle of the night in order to move heavy usage off peak. If all users had unlimited 24/7 teksavvy would effectively be paying the incumbents more in usage fees than they are charging their users. It's a very fine line in the IISP industry |
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RizzleQCunningham's Law Enthusiast
Premium Member
join:2006-01-12
Windsor, ON |
RizzleQ
Premium Member
2014-Jun-14 1:53 pm
Yeah, I guess so. ZTC must be enabled at the beginning of the month so it's enabled for most of the month instead of any time the user goes over 300GB. That means the option I mentioned can't be implemented. |
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Exactly, it's a way to move heavy usage off peak and for the whole month. It isn't meant to be an "unlimited" option but more of a way to keep usage costs down for TSI |
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Sunfox
join:2003-12-14
Stouffville |
to RizzleQ
said by btech805:I don't think you understand how ztc works or how the tariff usage system works and why teksavvy has ztc to move their heavy users downloads to off peak times in order to save money. ZTC only works in the middle of the night in order to move heavy usage off peak. If all users had unlimited 24/7 teksavvy would effectively be paying the incumbents more in usage fees than they are charging their users. It's a very fine line in the IISP industry Since "the middle of the night" seems to mean different things to different folks, ZTC activates from 8PM to midnight. It's unrelated to the "unlimited middle of the night" download period of 2AM to 8AM. said by RizzleQ:Yeah, I guess so. ZTC must be enabled at the beginning of the month so it's enabled for most of the month instead of any time the user goes over 300GB. That means the option I mentioned can't be implemented. Strictly speaking, it's not just "most" of the month - it must be enabled for the entire month. |
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RizzleQCunningham's Law Enthusiast
Premium Member
join:2006-01-12
Windsor, ON Ubiquiti UDM-Pro
Ubiquiti U6-LR
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RizzleQ
Premium Member
2014-Jun-14 7:34 pm
said by Sunfox:Strictly speaking, it's not just "most" of the month - it must be enabled for the entire month. Wrong. You can disable ZTC in the first 10 days and even re-enable it within the first 10 days and if you leave it on then it's enabled for MOST of the month (20/30ish days). quote:
The first 10 days of each month are considered a trial period. You can turn Zap the Cap on or off at will during this time.
» help.teksavvy.com/hc/en- ··· -the-Cap |
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to hightech
ZTC is an opt-in peak time throttle, TekSavvy gets charged based on how much capacity they require at a given time. Having people opt-in to slower speeds during peak hours helps keep the cost down, and as a thank you TSI gives those users unlimited downloads. Auto enabling once a user hits their limit doesn't work because that user has already cost TSI full price on capacity, therefore don't qualify for the thank you perk  I'd love to see the system work out well enough for it get added to the 150GB plans, bumping them to 300GB. (Hint.. Hint.. ) If that works well enough we may see price drops (or no increases for a while)  |
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Sunfox
join:2003-12-14
Stouffville |
to RizzleQ
said by RizzleQ:Wrong. You can disable ZTC in the first 10 days and even re-enable it within the first 10 days and if you leave it on then it's enabled for MOST of the month (20/30ish days). quote:
The first 10 days of each month are considered a trial period. You can turn Zap the Cap on or off at will during this time.
» help.teksavvy.com/hc/en- ··· -the-Cap Um... for lack of a better word, "wrong". From the same FAQ you quoted: To qualify for unlimited usage you must have Zap the Cap enabled for EVERY peak period (8pm - 12am) of the month you wish to receive unlimited usage for.
This means ZtC would need to be turned on before 8pm on the 1st of the month and remain turned on until the last day of the calendar month. You can disable it freely during the first 10 days if you don't like it (after that you're locked in). You can also turn it on and off (for no particular reason AFAIK) during the first 10 days of the month - but only outside of the 8PM to 12AM period. As soon as you disabling it impacts on one of those prime time periods, you no longer qualify for unlimited downloads. The FAQ item you quoted should be re-written to avoid this very confusion. This also proves the point I was making in another thread on ZTC: ZTC is needlessly confusing. |
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RizzleQCunningham's Law Enthusiast
Premium Member
join:2006-01-12
Windsor, ON |
RizzleQ
Premium Member
2014-Jun-14 8:09 pm
Ok, that's just a bit confusing. That's only one of the reason's I won't touch ZTC with a 10 foot pole. |
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to hightech
if your suggesting Full Speed Unlimited until 300 gigs then Perma Slowdowns past it ick, if your suggesting I can download 300gig in primetime then ztc enables and i keep going what incentive is there for tsi? ZTC is designed to enable them to have extra bandwidth on the caps so they can oversell more without Having to buy more bandwidth to make up for Our usage at other times. |
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 DavesnothereChange is NOT Necessarily Progress
Premium Member
join:2009-06-15
Canada
1 edit |
to RizzleQ
said by RizzleQ:said by Sunfox:Strictly speaking, it's not just "most" of the month - it must be enabled for the entire month. Wrong. You can disable ZTC in the first 10 days and even re-enable it within the first 10 days and if you leave it on then it's enabled for MOST of the month (20/30ish days). quote:
The first 10 days of each month are considered a trial period. You can turn Zap the Cap on or off at will during this time.
» help.teksavvy.com/hc/en- ··· -the-Cap Did y'all read the below-linked thread ?» ZTC enabled anytime during first 10 days of month, right?It says, apparently, that the TSI site ZTC FAQ may not yet be updated to be quoting as per the newest tweaks to the ZTC rules - the ones which TSI Marc describes early in the thread. Also, check the conversation further down, between TSI Marc and myself. |
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to cbluser
That's how I thought it worked. If you were getting close to your limit, you could Zap the Cap for the rest of the month by rate-limiting. As long as you kept it on until the next month rollover that's how it should work. |
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DavesnothereChange is NOT Necessarily Progress
Premium Member
join:2009-06-15
Canada
1 edit |
said by rodjames:That's how I thought it worked. If you were getting close to your limit, you could Zap the Cap for the rest of the month.... But after reading the thread which I linked in my last post, you DO realize now that what you thought is not true, right ? It's only what you would LIKE the rules to be. And what would TSI gain by letting it work as you suggested ? There HAS to be something in it for them. And there IS. It's the customer having a slower speed EVERY NIGHT FOR THE WHOLE MONTH, not just after you think you are near your cap. |
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Sunfox
join:2003-12-14
Stouffville |
to rodjames
said by rodjames:That's how I thought it worked. If you were getting close to your limit, you could Zap the Cap for the rest of the month by rate-limiting. As long as you kept it on until the next month rollover that's how it should work. Just to keep everything clear: that's definitely NOT how it works. You have to make the decision by 8PM on the 1st day of the month (or is it the end of the previous month now?), and stick with it through to the end of the month. Zap the Cap isn't an "in case of emergency" option. That would be the maximum overage fee. Zap the Cap is for those who know they need and would normally pay for Unlimited, but are willing to give up an entire month of full-speed service during prime time in exchange for discounted unlimited transfers. |
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rodjames
Premium Member
2014-Jun-15 9:15 pm
Zap the Cap should be a parachute. If you run out of your 300GB in a day, you should be able to opt in and zap your cap for the rest of the 29 days. |
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 TSI Marc
Premium Member
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
1 recommendation |
TSI Marc
Premium Member
2014-Jun-15 9:18 pm
Like a parachute, you really want to pack it well in advance  |
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EHTL
join:2002-10-31
Canada |
to mr_hexen
I never go over 200GB per month but I turned on ZTC. I don't care about the speed too much, but if this is a way to save TSI some money and reduce Rogers' profit, I am happy to do so. |
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Sunfox
join:2003-12-14
Stouffville |
to rodjames
ZTC works on calendar months, not your billing cycle or some floating 30 day window. |
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fefrie
join:2012-08-17
Vancouver, BC |
to RizzleQ
said by RizzleQ:A better idea is to make it an OPTION to automatically enable ZTC once you go over 300GB. I would be in favour of TSI introducing a check box titled "Temporary & Automatic ZTC" where it would enable ZTC automatically once usage hits 299 GB and then disable it on the last day of the month so it is disabled the next month and only re-enable if you were about to go over the cap again. I don't think you understand what ZTC is for. It's to reduce bandwidth usage at peak times. Let's say a user on a 25mbps plan downloads 30GB of data between 8-9pm every night on Monday to Friday (or however long it takes to download 30gb on a 25mbps plan), downloading at full speed during the most peak/busy times of the night. What's the cost of behavior like this? He does this for two weeks M-F (30gb x 10 days = 300gb) and download his limit. Now he wants to turn on zap the cap. It's too late. Because of his downloading times he's used the network at the most expensive premium time. ZTC is not a solution to limit how much a person downloads/uses the internet. It's a solution to *WHEN* you use the internet. I've asked a lot of questions about ZTC and downloads and usage limits, and the general understanding that I have is that TS really only cares about usage between 6-12pm. If you can shift your usage, or downloading outside of the peak times, you'll be easiest on the system. Basically, don't drive your car during rush hour, and you can 'almost' drive as much as you want any other time. No one will care. I'm guessing that TS looks at charging people who go over the 300gb limit very carefully to see when they tend to use their connection the most. If you are way over 300gb, but the majority of your usage is between 9am to 3pm ( in addition to the 2-8am window), I doubt that they would charge you. They look at when the damage is done, and act accordingly. |
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RizzleQCunningham's Law Enthusiast
Premium Member
join:2006-01-12
Windsor, ON Ubiquiti UDM-Pro
Ubiquiti U6-LR
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RizzleQ
Premium Member
2014-Jun-16 12:04 am
Haha, wow. You must not have read this thread after my post you just quoted.  It has been well established that I was mistaken. Let's not beat that to death. |
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DavesnothereChange is NOT Necessarily Progress
Premium Member
join:2009-06-15
Canada |
to fefrie
Zap the Cap judges peak hours to be 8PM-12Midnight, and both TSI Marc and Rocca from Start have recently posted in various DSLR threads that the highest peak demand for bandwidth usually falls a few minutes after 10PM each night. It might be useful if Marc would post a screenshot of a typical daily demand graph for, say, their pipe to Rogers or one of the other incumbents, to illustrate just how much contrast there is in demand when you compare 10PM and 4AM. 1 pic = 1K words |
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It has been well established that I was mistaken. Let's not beat that to death.