dslreports logo
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc
Search similar:


uniqs
976
older dog
Premium Member
join:2005-06-09

older dog

Premium Member

[Electrical] Code or not

Click for full size
Click for full size
I was at the Troy N.Y Farmers market this morning and noticed this open breaker panel in an area where family's would be hanging out with the children.

Am I over reacting in thinking this was negligent?
Access to the panel was not restricted by any fences etc and was in an area where children were playing. The open panel was within reach of any child able to walk.

alkizmo
join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC

alkizmo

Member

I would have called city-hall right away and if they were closed, the firemen. There is no exageration in what I said, curious kids could just run up to it and touch the panel bus bar.

Msradell
Premium Member
join:2008-12-25
Louisville, KY

Msradell to older dog

Premium Member

to older dog
Not only is having the box open like that against code but those wires running out of it appear to also be against code! What were they connected to?
older dog
Premium Member
join:2005-06-09

older dog to alkizmo

Premium Member

to alkizmo
Its a good size weekly event geared toward the family with multiple forms of entertainment, bands, folk music, jugglers at various places threw out the market.
older dog

older dog to Msradell

Premium Member

to Msradell
Mostly mobile kitchens from various local eateries.
Pretty sure I saw an extension cord wired directly to a breaker in the box.
From where I took the picture the extension cords and in some cases 12-2 10-2 wires were laying in the wet grass at my feet.

billaustin
they call me Mr. Bill
MVM
join:2001-10-13
North Las Vegas, NV

billaustin to older dog

MVM

to older dog
Did you close the door, or notify an event official, or just take pictures and come post about it here?

garys_2k
Premium Member
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI

garys_2k

Premium Member

What in the world does that have to do with the OP's question? Are you slapping his wrist?
older dog
Premium Member
join:2005-06-09

older dog to billaustin

Premium Member

to billaustin
You have no business insinuating I should have taken any action without asking more questions about what was going on.

I was getting comments about minding my own business just taking the pictures.
Some of the wires were in the way of closing the door, If I had done so and cut off someones power I would be the one explaining to the police what I was doing.

The event had on duty police patrolling past the open panel throughout the events duration.

My intent on posting was getting some professional opinions and then sending a link to this thread to City Hall.

garys_2k
Premium Member
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI

garys_2k

Premium Member

Yes, it was dangerous and they shouldn't do it again. Quick fix would be to cut off a bit of the cover's corner so they could open the box, plug in the cords, route the cords so they'll go through the opening in the cover, close and lock it up again. That would be the quick fix.

Better fix would be to install a separate door only for the plugs. Keep the breaker panel locked up all the time and only use the door for the outlets.

And yes, there are a number of "issues" in the panel itself. No front cover shielding the buses, directly connecting the extension cords, the whole thing is a workmanship mess. But the access to it is just an electrocution, or arc flash, waiting to happen.

billaustin
they call me Mr. Bill
MVM
join:2001-10-13
North Las Vegas, NV

billaustin to older dog

MVM

to older dog
said by older dog:

You have no business insinuating I should have taken any action without asking more questions about what was going on.

By taking pictures and posting here, you open yourself up to such insinuations. Obviously, you perceived that it was an issue. You didn't indicate any planned or immediate action regarding such issue. Public event safety issues are a whole different arena than asking about something on your own property.

I was just curious what you did about it. If you perceived it as an immediate safety threat, you should have notified the fire department. At a minimum, I would have notified an event official, or one of the patrolling policemen, about the issue. Electrical Safety is not part of the policeman's role, but he would report it to the proper department.

Since it has already happened, I would send the pictures to the fire and inspection departments and notify them that it happens regularly, and provide the next event date. If you don't want to be identified, make an anonymous tip and mail the photos. Just sending a link to City Hall may not get the proper response.
older dog
Premium Member
join:2005-06-09

older dog

Premium Member

You assume to much, you attack my reasoning for posting since I didn't do what you say you would have, in reality we have no idea if you would have noticed it at all.

In my case I was only sitting in a location where I did see it because I was to exhausted to make it back to the car without taking a rest. I was physically and mentally whipped, I couldn't have sought out a fireman if the idea had occurred to me, which it didn't.

So now here I post to try and do the right thing and get some professional opinions on what to do and you think I need to be jumped on.
I don't see where any of this conversation with you has done anything to help fix this.

Red_Menace
poking around since 1978
join:2001-11-03
Fruita, CO

Red_Menace

Member

He is giving you a lot more leeway than it would appear that you deserve - posting here is not the right thing to do. Walking away from a potentially deadly situation without notifying authorities isn't really a code issue, and moves the negligence in your direction.

billaustin
they call me Mr. Bill
MVM
join:2001-10-13
North Las Vegas, NV

billaustin to garys_2k

MVM

to garys_2k
said by garys_2k:

What in the world does that have to do with the OP's question? Are you slapping his wrist?

I was curious as to his intent for posting and his reaction to the event. It's obvious (at least to me) that it is negligent. Many people are oblivious to such things as what he noticed there.
billaustin

billaustin to older dog

MVM

to older dog
I questioned your intent on posting because your initial post did not state one. If you had even included in your first post that you planned to bring it to someone's attention, my response would have been different.

Thane_Bitter
Inquire within
Premium Member
join:2005-01-20

Thane_Bitter to older dog

Premium Member

to older dog
said by older dog:

Am I over reacting in thinking this was negligent?

Nope, its a death trap.

The cables look like typical extension cords and are definitely a tripping hazard. The breaker panel is open, and yes it looks like some moron doubled lugged an extension cord into some of the breakers. It's all very halfassed and unsafe.

If an electrical inspector was in the area they would have removed the meter and red tagged the whole thing.

In my city the public works have installed dedicated electrical posts with weather proof covers along the areas in which food trucks and stands set up. They are positioned away from the pathways so the connections are behind the public side of the trucks and stands. The wiring is done with heavy gauge cables with twist-lock connectors. Cables are marked, and covered over with conduit if they do cross a pathway to protect the public from tripping over a cable. The vendors and public do not have access to the breakers.

mackey
Premium Member
join:2007-08-20

mackey to garys_2k

Premium Member

to garys_2k
said by garys_2k:

Quick fix would be to cut off a bit of the cover's corner so they could open the box, plug in the cords, route the cords so they'll go through the opening in the cover, close and lock it up again. That would be the quick fix.

Better fix would be to install a separate door only for the plugs.

Wrong. The correct fix would be to put the cover back on the panel and put plugs on all the cords. Unless the wooden door is screwed or locked shut, kids could still get in and thus the problem would still be there if you didn't. You can do whatever with the wooden door after that; the cords leaving the wooden box are not the main problem here.

/M
LittleBill
join:2013-05-24

2 edits

LittleBill to older dog

Member

to older dog
if you actually blow up the photo's something is off.

first the door is lockable, second the panel door is there, its on the left

edited*

im wondering if the op walked into a situation where some illegally tied in, plug broke whatever, all the outlets are water proof and there are tons of them, makes no sense they are wired direct like that unless some idiot was trying to run 240 over a extension cord,

i don't believe this normally how this box looks
older dog
Premium Member
join:2005-06-09

1 recommendation

older dog to Red_Menace

Premium Member

to Red_Menace
My opening statement was asking if and what was wrong so I had more than my own opinion to go on since I am not a electrician.

mackey
Premium Member
join:2007-08-20

mackey to LittleBill

Premium Member

to LittleBill
said by LittleBill:

first the door is lockable, second the panel door is there, its on the left

Yes, the wooden door is open because it cannot be closed with the cords running through it. The panel door is off because some numbnut cut the end off a cord and lugged it right to a breaker.
said by LittleBill:

3rd the orange cords actually appear to be cut off and just hanging, they are not connected, actually one has red tape over it

No, they are neither cut nor hanging. The red tape is probably left over from a previous "install" where it was used as a strain relief. The only thing I see hanging is the insulation they stripped back to get enough wire to lug to the breaker.

/M
LittleBill
join:2013-05-24

LittleBill

Member

your right they are not cut, i will retract. good eye
older dog
Premium Member
join:2005-06-09

older dog

Premium Member

I felt it posed enough of a potential threat to take pictures and ask for professional advice. That is why I asked here.

Sitting in your home it may be easy for you to say how wrong I was to not report this.
But the reality is I am not a professional electrician and would likely have been dismissed had I said anything.

Sometimes all you can do is try to see if you can get your ducks in a row to argue for it to not be done this way the next time.

Red_Menace
poking around since 1978
join:2001-11-03
Fruita, CO

Red_Menace

Member

You don't have to be a professional, or know what codes are being violated - you obviously saw that it was dangerous. If later that night the local news stations were saying "little Bobby was electrocuted at the Farmer's Market this morning - authorities are looking for a person of interest who appeared to be physically and mentally whipped", your ducks wouldn't be feeling very well.
AVonGauss
Premium Member
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL

AVonGauss

Premium Member

Nor was he the one responsible for the "genius" hook ups and he actually took the time to take a picture and at least ask the question even though he doesn't appear to have an electrical background. Let's keep this a bit in perspective...

OldCableGuy3
@207.191.193.x

OldCableGuy3 to older dog

Anon

to older dog
The only thing worse than the electrical job in that panel is someone seeing it and walking away without alerting the authorities. In my opinion. I would have dialed 911 from my phone on the spot, no question asked.
older dog
Premium Member
join:2005-06-09

older dog

Premium Member

lol
like so many threads here this one has gone off the deep end
And just like I there was another hundred people at that moment in time who were in sight of that same panel. And a few hundred to possibly a few thousand more passed in view of it also during the duration of the event.

At least I showed enough concern and reasoning to question its suitability.
TheMG
Premium Member
join:2007-09-04
Canada
MikroTik RB450G
Cisco DPC3008
Cisco SPA112

TheMG to older dog

Premium Member

to older dog
To answer your original question:
said by older dog:

Am I over reacting in thinking this was negligent?

No, you were not overreacting. That is in fact very negligent, a code violation, and very dangerous.

mackey
Premium Member
join:2007-08-20

mackey to Red_Menace

Premium Member

to Red_Menace
said by Red_Menace:

authorities are looking for a person of interest

Wow dude. You're really good at FUD, you work for a news agency or something?

Since when did it become a law that you must report something if you don't know if it's safe or not? older dog had absolutely nothing to do with creating that mess. While it would of been nice if he had reported it, AFAIK there is no law saying he MUST, esp. when he wasn't entirely sure if it was allowed or not.

/M

nunya
LXI 483
MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
·Charter

1 recommendation

nunya to older dog

MVM

to older dog
Jeez-o-peet. Let's halt the Crucifixion here.
I would send a copy of the picture to the city and ask them to deal with it. It is dangerous. The city would have a tuff time trying to claim municipal exemption on this if someone was hurt or killed.
I can already tell you what happened. Some hoosier needed 240V so they popped the dead front off and got right onto the breaker. I've found the biggest violators tend to be vendors and bands. They *think* they know what they are doing, but they really just know enough to be dangerous.

I have a municipal contract. I set up temp power for a few festivals during the year. I leave everything closed and padlocked (or securi-sealed). I got called out on a Saturday last year because some numb-nuts stage rental goof ball pried one of the panels open and "hot-wired" his crap into it. He tripped the whole panel and knocked everyone on that side of the road out. What the dipshit failed to notice was that I had a pole mounted 100A panel with 2 50A plugs and 2 20A plugs within 20 feet of his setup. Not only that, but the parks department even put a cord bump down from the proper panel across the road just for his stupid ass to use.

The taxpayers got the pleasure of paying me 2 hrs double PW to come out and point. I got to listen to some good music for a couple of hours, but I couldn't drink any beer.

PSWired
join:2006-03-26
Annapolis, MD

PSWired

Member

Meanwhile in India, medium voltage connections are accessible at ground level and people aren't getting killed. Not a safe situation, but probably not worthy of all the fanfare here.

Red_Menace
poking around since 1978
join:2001-11-03
Fruita, CO

Red_Menace to mackey

Member

to mackey
You are right, there is no law, but in a polite society people watch out for each other, instead of being some asshat watching from the side of the road. Personally, I would have probably set up my lawn chair right in front of that mess (or at least out of arc-flash range). And by the way, your sarcasm and humor detectors seem to be broken.