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macwhiz
join:2014-06-14
North Granby, CT

macwhiz

Member

[CT] CATV - Motorola MTR-700 TA firmware problem with TiVo Roamio

Got a new TiVo Roamio Plus and ordered a self-install kit from Cox. After a comedy of errors involving traps installed instead of removed, signal levels, etc., I now find that I can't reliably tune any of the "pak" channels that have the CCI byte set, and two of my six tuners are AWOL.

The factory-new MTR-700 tuning adapter I was sent by Cox has firmware 01.33. It seems that TiVo and Motorola say that the minimum firmware needed to support a six-tuner device like a Roamio is 01.37. With downrev firmware, you get the problem I'm having.

I called Cox; they say they have no ability to update the firmware. Apparently I'm expected to drive 40 minutes to the nearest Cox store and play TA Roulette hoping to get one that (a) works and (b) has the right firmware. From other forums, it sounds like this may take four to six trips to achieve.

I'm hoping that a Cox employee on here will know the right person to get a firmware update pushed out to me ASAP...

I ordered Cox because DirecTV wanted me to cut down several trees to improve my line of sight. That's starting to seem like less hassle than trying to give Cox my money for service

BryanInPHX
Premium Member
join:2001-03-06
Phoenix, AZ

2 edits

BryanInPHX

Premium Member

Same problem posted here, also located in Connecticut. Cox never responded to their posting. But they eventually got a TA with the correct firmware, so CT does have Firmware Vers: 1.37 available.
»forums.cox.com/forum_hom ··· 630.aspx

If they do not respond Email all your info, including the RF MAC address of your TA to cox.help@cox.com

I wish I knew more about Motorola Tuning Adapters.

I live in a Cisco market, with Cisco TAs the firmware is automatically updated by the headend when the Tuning Adapter first communicates with the headend.
macwhiz
join:2014-06-14
North Granby, CT

macwhiz

Member

After escalating the issue to Cox management via e-mail, a Cox Customer Advocate for my area, "Judy", was in touch with me. Supposedly, they've verified that automatic firmware downloads for the MTR-700 are not working properly, and it's not just me. I don't know if it's just the Cox Enfield, CT system or a wider part of Cox New England. A field supervisor is supposed to be out tomorrow to force an update and make sure I have a working TA. I'll try to get more details from him. The representative was clear that the MTR-700 is capable of over-the-wire firmware updates and is supposed to be receiving them.

In the meantime, if anyone else has this problem, I recommend escalating as high as you can, and also filing a complaint with the Federal Communications Commission. You can do that easily at their website. If Cox offers their "Tune 6" Contour DVR in your area, they are legally obligated to provide a working CableCARD and TA combination that can tune six channels simultaneously—see 47 CFR 76.1205(b)(4), which says that a cable company like Cox must:
Effective August 1, 2011, provide, through the use of a commonly used interface and published specifications for communication, CableCARD-reliant, firmware-upgradable navigation devices the ability to tune simultaneously as many switched-digital channels as the greatest number of streams supported by any set-top box provided by the cable operator, or four simultaneous channels, whichever is greater;
(Emphasis added.)

Contacting your local public-utility commission might also help Cox get with the program on CableCARD support.

Normally, I wouldn't advocate going directly to the regulators. However, from the posts here and on the Cox and TiVo forums, it's clear that Cox has ignored reports of this problem for some time. Also, Cox has previously told the FCC that its customers love tuning adapters, so letting the FCC know that Cox is mistaken would be a good idea... especially since the industry is lobbying the FCC to eliminate the requirement that they provide CableCARDs.
macwhiz

macwhiz

Member

The Cox supervisor, who was not a contractor, brought a new MTR-700 with him to swap with my existing one. When connected, it apparently downloaded the new firmware. With the 1.37 firmware installed, it now works properly. Apparently, Cox is having issues with MTR-700s that refuse to take firmware downloads and require replacement...? They have few TiVo customers (in my opinion, because it's so damn hard to get a cable company to play nice with CableCARD), so if you want support, it seems like you have to push.
ajwees41
Premium Member
join:2002-05-10
Omaha, NE

ajwees41

Premium Member

I wouldn't say that, but they have fewer Motorola head ends than Cisco's, so they don't have the issues come up as often just a guess.

Anonguy
@68.106.20.x

Anonguy to macwhiz

Anon

to macwhiz
said by macwhiz:

They have few TiVo customers (in my opinion, because it's so damn hard to get a cable company to play nice with CableCARD),

My guess is that majority of people don't like buying their own equipment and then pay monthly fee's to Tivo.

BryanInPHX
Premium Member
join:2001-03-06
Phoenix, AZ

BryanInPHX

Premium Member

said by Anonguy :

My guess is that majority of people don't like buying their own equipment and then pay monthly fee's to Tivo.

If people understood the cost was virtually identical over a 3 year period, and understood all the advantages the TiVo has over the Cox DVR, I believe a lot more would chose a TiVo.

If TiVo advertised as much as Cox and the Cox Store had a TiVo compared side by side to the Cox Record 6, again, I believe we would see many more TiVos sold.


Cost Comparison - Cox Record 6 vs Roamio Pro
Rakeesh
join:2011-10-30
Phoenix, AZ

Rakeesh

Member

Honestly I don't even think tivo is a good option. I mean really, you effectively pay $900 for what doesn't even qualify for half of a computer. I know the hardware of tivos inside and out, and the hardware REALLY does not justify the cost. Neither does the cable box though.

Another big reason why cable in its present state doesn't have a future.
Maltz
join:2011-01-08
Fayetteville, AR
Calix 844G
Netgate SG-2100
Ubiquiti U6-LR

Maltz to BryanInPHX

Member

to BryanInPHX
You can even shave another $175 off of those TiVo prices if you can live with a 1TB drive of the Roamio Plus instead of the 3TB of the Roamio Pro. And if that turns out not to be enough, you can plug in an eSATA drive to add more.

As for the value of the TiVo hardware, you have to take into account the software and the fact that they don't have a large user base to recoup development costs. That, plus the fact that it's cheaper (long-term) and does everything Contour does - AND does it better - makes it a great value, imo. I couldn't be more pleased with mine.

Anonguy
@68.106.20.x

Anonguy to BryanInPHX

Anon

to BryanInPHX
said by BryanInPHX:

said by Anonguy :

My guess is that majority of people don't like buying their own equipment and then pay monthly fee's to Tivo.

If people understood the cost was virtually identical over a 3 year period, and understood all the advantages the TiVo has over the Cox DVR, I believe a lot more would chose a TiVo.

If TiVo advertised as much as Cox and the Cox Store had a TiVo compared side by side to the Cox Record 6, again, I believe we would see many more TiVos sold.

You are preaching to the choir. I have multiple Tivo's

What I see is people don't like forking out big up front costs for equipment and then they don't like taking the risk associated with it.
They like renting and if something goes wrong just have it swapped.
Maltz
join:2011-01-08
Fayetteville, AR
Calix 844G
Netgate SG-2100
Ubiquiti U6-LR

Maltz

Member

said by Anonguy :

What I see is people don't like forking out big up front costs for equipment and then they don't like taking the risk associated with it.
They like renting and if something goes wrong just have it swapped.

There is something to be said for that. One thing that partially mitigates the risk is that lifetime subscriptions CAN be transferred to a new unit if the new unit is to replace a failed unit. So while you might be out the cost of the hardware if the machine dies out-of-warranty, you won't be out the cost of the lifetime subscription.

AnonPhx
@24.251.82.x

AnonPhx to BryanInPHX

Anon

to BryanInPHX
I'm sorry but fronting up nearly a grand to break even after three years is not very appealing. Three years is a long time and that is a hell of a lot of money before you see any return.
Maltz
join:2011-01-08
Fayetteville, AR
Calix 844G
Netgate SG-2100
Ubiquiti U6-LR

Maltz

Member

said by AnonPhx :

I'm sorry but fronting up nearly a grand to break even after three years is not very appealing. Three years is a long time and that is a hell of a lot of money before you see any return.

Actually, the up-front can be as low as $170 for the 4-tuner model or $325 for the Plus from Amazon if you go with monthly service. The break even points, compared to Cox Contour, based on Amazon prices and the PLSR discount, are...

Roamio Pro with monthly service: 45 months (after which you save $11/mo)
Roamio Pro with lifetime service: 35 months (after which you save $26/mo)

Roamio Plus with monthly service: 30 months (after which you save $11/mo)
Roamio Plus with lifetime service: 29 months (after which you save $26/mo)

Roamio 4-tuner with monthly service: 16 months (after which you save $11/mo)
Roamio 4-tuner with lifetime service: 23 months (after which you save $26/mo)
(Lifetime service with the 4-tuner model becomes the cheaper option at 28 months)

Although I think the monthly fees for the 4-tuner model are a little higher than the Cox non-contour DVR, it would still be an option worth considering due to its relatively low up-front cost and better features and responsiveness. I ended up choosing the Plus with lifetime service. I can always add a drive if I need the space of the Pro (which is really the only difference) but I don't anticipate that.
Rakeesh
join:2011-10-30
Phoenix, AZ

Rakeesh to Maltz

Member

to Maltz
said by Maltz:

As for the value of the TiVo hardware, you have to take into account the software and the fact that they don't have a large user base to recoup development costs. That, plus the fact that it's cheaper (long-term) and does everything Contour does - AND does it better - makes it a great value, imo. I couldn't be more pleased with mine.

No it's not quite as good as you think. Half of the software stack is literally just pulled from open source software. The other half is all globbed into a big binary that has been given a few names over tivo's lifespan (first it was "myworld" second it was "tivoapp" third it was "swedishshef"; it's all the same program though, just periodically renamed for whatever reason.)

They actually have a really poorly written DRM system that has been broken so many times its pathetic (the later generations are only secured because the CPU itself does code verification of the prom image; but the encryption is really bad.) In fact, I myself was part of the group that did it on numerous occasions. That's not all though; some people wonder why tivos have such bad data transfer rates for MRV, and the reason why actually has to do with the encryption scheme they use being horribly inefficient. I have two tivos that are hacked to disable it entirely, and you get about a 20 fold speed increase.

They also use a very bad database system, built into a proprietary filesystem they dubbed MFS. The reason it's so bad is because it uses a lock system that makes actions take a LOT longer than they need to (it performs entire actions, and then before it commits them it checks if the database is in use, if it is then it fails and trashes the entire operation, and restarts it from scratch.) The end result is a UI that is much slower than it should be, and a horribly energy inefficient design. (Fun fact: I was the very first person to transfer a recording from one tivo to another back in the Series 1 days.)

Sure the later generations largely overcome these issues with a faster CPU, but in the end they're still horribly energy inefficient. Also, you can buy the raw guide data for about $20 per year, so there's no good reason that you should effectively pay $144 per year (what the cheaper non-lifetime subscription ends up costing) for that.

Their customer service is also awful. Your tivo really only has 90 days warranty. If any part of it breaks, you'll pay out the ass for it. I remember during the early days of tivo, the modem breaking was a common occurance, yet they wanted $100 to fix it (they deliberately used cheap capacitors, and still do) and that didn't even include the shipping costs.

They still use really cheap capacitors, and the most critical ones in the power supply are still to this day well known for failing, which is why you only have effectively a 90 day warranty. They also use the same design power coupler the original Xbox used, which was known for being a fire hazard (not to mention destroying your unit) after so many removals and insertions. It was only well publicized on the Xbox because people tend to move game consoles around a lot more than DVRs.

Really, this is NOT a company you should be supporting.
Rakeesh

Rakeesh to AnonPhx

Member

to AnonPhx
said by AnonPhx :

I'm sorry but fronting up nearly a grand to break even after three years is not very appealing. Three years is a long time and that is a hell of a lot of money before you see any return.

It's also assuming your tivo never fails, which is a very bad bet to make. See my previous post for details, which doesn't even go into hard disk failures (admittedly easy to fix, but the included hard disk has NO warranty at all, so you will be out the cost of it at any rate.)

Oh and did I mention that throughout your life of owning the unit (no matter what sub option you use, including lifetime) you get spammed with advertisements?

Pause your show? You see a banner ad at the bottom. Go to tivo central? See another ad. This is especially annoying when you've paused it because you want to look at the scene in better detail, but you have a fucking ad in the way.
Maltz
join:2011-01-08
Fayetteville, AR
Calix 844G
Netgate SG-2100
Ubiquiti U6-LR

Maltz to Rakeesh

Member

to Rakeesh
said by Rakeesh:

Really, this is NOT a company you should be supporting.

TiVo isn't a panacea, but what other plug-and-play options are there that fully support digital cable and SDV? The Cox DVR is still much worse when it comes to responsiveness of the user interface, storage capacity, and just about everything user-facing. (I've not used the contour model. Maybe its UI is better?)
Rakeesh
join:2011-10-30
Phoenix, AZ

4 edits

Rakeesh

Member

said by Maltz:

said by Rakeesh:

Really, this is NOT a company you should be supporting.

TiVo isn't a panacea, but what other plug-and-play options are there that fully support digital cable and SDV? The Cox DVR is still much worse when it comes to responsiveness of the user interface, storage capacity, and just about everything user-facing. (I've not used the contour model. Maybe its UI is better?)

I'm not disagreeing with that, but IMO the two satellite companies provide a much better DVR system at a much lower price than cable can ever offer. If you can live without sports, then I'd suggest cord cutting entirely with sickrage/couchpotato for good measure.

My cable bill is $59 a month (premier with 20% discount,) and other than sports I can get all of the same content you can AND some. Not only that but I don't have any advertisements either (they're removed prior to delivery, no need to skip them.)

But if sports is your thing, then you're doing the wrong thing by subscribing to cable (both satellite providers do much better here.)
Maltz
join:2011-01-08
Fayetteville, AR
Calix 844G
Netgate SG-2100
Ubiquiti U6-LR

Maltz

Member

Well, I think that advocating torrents when comparing DVR options is kind of apples and oranges. Like you say, you lose sports, news, special events, etc. But also, getting the sort of system you describe up and running reliably is probably well outside the skill set of the average DVR user, not to mention the copyright issues. And legitimate streaming services such as Netflix and Hulu have even further limitations on available content.

I think we're mostly on the same page, though. I've not really been able to find what I would call a GREAT option. For me, Tivo is the device that gives me the cheapest (long-term), least frustrating to use, most expandable, and legal way to get the content I want, which includes live programming.
Rakeesh
join:2011-10-30
Phoenix, AZ

Rakeesh

Member

said by Maltz:

Well, I think that advocating torrents when comparing DVR options is kind of apples and oranges. Like you say, you lose sports, news, special events, etc.

In which case satellite still wins. A real winner IMO is the Hopper DVR, both in terms of price and functionality. While it does require a contract, so does tivo if you take the subscription route, only the hopper ends up being much cheaper, plus a lot better in nearly all respects.

I haven't kept up with DirecTVs latest offerings, but last I checked theirs was cheaper while having very good reviews, plus their sports package will hands down destroy anything cable offers.
said by Maltz:

But also, getting the sort of system you describe up and running reliably is probably well outside the skill set of the average DVR user

There's actually a ton of step by step guides for it out there. I myself made a script for a bare metal server from a blank ubuntu 14.04 install which builds a base filer with a VM appliance that hosts deluge, sickrage, couchpotato, and plex media server. If you run on a Windows environment, then you can run the Plex server on the bare metal system, and create a 512mb VM that hosts all of the other stuff and manipulates it via samba sharing.

In spite of how complex it sounds, it actually uses a very tiny compute (cpu/ram) footprint. In addition to the above, my particular implementation uses a massive raid-z array and I juggle that with being able to make full use of a gigabit network (average 112MB/sec transfers) on demand. My el cheapo i3 3220 along with some el cheapo 16GB of ram and el cheapo TEG-S80G switches (3 of them) handle all of this extremely well.

Only reason the high amount of ram is needed is for ZFS to do its magic (ZFS loves ram for big arrays the size of mine.) If you use a simple disk then you'll easily get away with only two gigs.