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Oleg
Premium
join:2003-12-08
Birmingham, AL
kudos:2

2 edits

[News] Chinese Government has banned Win 8 from use on Government PC's

The Chinese Government infamously announced recently that they have banned the use of Windows 8 and Windows 8.1 on Government PC's due to the cloud/Modern UI integration. While it may not sound like a big deal on the surface, Microsoft are currently panicking regarding the whole ordeal, and are currently reconsidering a number of plans with Windows 9. »www.winbeta.org/news/windows-9-t···ts-plans

Finally MS has released Windows 8 on Desktop PCs was a bad idea.


BillRoland
Premium
join:2001-01-21
Ocala, FL
kudos:3
I'm stunned the Chinese don't trust their data to be secure in the "Microsoft Cloud."

OZO
Premium
join:2003-01-17
kudos:2

4 recommendations

reply to Oleg
In a rare occasion I'd agree with China Government here. Despite the common local US opinion, I don't trust MS cloud too and don't want to use/depend on it. And I don't like the Modern UI as well... While MS doesn't give a shit about my opinion, they have to listen to China (with millions of prospective sells) and finally do the right thing - stop pushing their cloud and that so called "Modern" UI...
said by Windows 9 is in trouble, Microsoft to make drastic changes to its plans? | WinBeta :

According to WZOR, Windows 9 Enterprise Edition could potentially see the removal of cloud-based integration within the operating system, along with the ability to completely disable the Modern UI 2.0.

So, I may say thanks to China (and Russia) for that
--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...


plencnerb
Premium
join:2000-09-25
Carpentersville, IL
kudos:3
reply to Oleg
While I'm not a fan of the cloud either (and its just not MS's version, its all of them), if you set up Windows 8.x to use a local account (or in the case of a business, a domain account), do you not disable the use of the cloud?

As far as I know, I've not been asked to use, or saw an option to store my stuff in the cloud from my Windows 8.0, 8.1, or 8.1.1 installs. Is that because I am using a local account? Everything that I've created (docs, pics, movies, etc) the default save location is in the libraries in my user profile, which is on my local hard drive in C:\users\xxxx\ directory structure.

Sure, there is the issue with the Modern UI, and unless you install a 3rd party app like Start8, you will still have that even with a local account.

If the Chinese Government knew that you could install and run Windows 8.x without a Microsoft account, would that change anything? I know setting it up that way takes a bit of extra steps, and its not very clear, but it can be done.

--Brian
--
============================
--Brian Plencner

E-Mail: CoasterBrian72Cancer@gmail.com
Note: Kill Cancer to Reply via e-mail


Blackbird
Built for Speed
Premium
join:2005-01-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..
reply to Oleg
NB from the last next-to-last paragraph of the article:
quote:
... hopefully Microsoft will officially announce something soon. Until then, we ask you to take what you've read here with a grain of salt considering this is a massive rumor and could definitely be false.
Time will tell...
--
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -- A. de Tocqueville


Oleg
Premium
join:2003-12-08
Birmingham, AL
kudos:2
reply to BillRoland
Microsoft Cloud is very secure. Not even MS employees can access the data.


Msradell
P.E.
Premium
join:2008-12-25
Louisville, KY

1 recommendation

said by Oleg:

Microsoft Cloud is very secure. Not even MS employees can access the data.

And you believe that?? Besides they had I'm very sure that NSA can access the data if they want to.
--
Written using Dragon NaturallySpeaking


Oleg
Premium
join:2003-12-08
Birmingham, AL
kudos:2

1 edit
I was metaphorically speaking. Meaning MS can easily have access to the MS's Cloud data.

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5

2 recommendations

reply to plencnerb
Maybe China doesn't like the fact that with 8.1 you cannot get rid of cloud storage or get rid of the Metro apps. This is why I may never upgrade to 8.1. Yes, I realize they can be disabled on 8.1 but on 8 you can uninstall all that and who is to say that since they (cloud storage and the Metro apps) cannot be uninstalled any longer that Microsoft did that deliberately as they have plans to activate the cloud storage and those apps even if the user disabled them? I know that with 8.0, I can't go to Windows Updates without it trying to force a download of the Metro apps I uninstalled long ago. I don't trust Microsoft to continue, for the life of Windows 8x, to honor the user's setup regarding cloud usage and/or metro apps. I suspect China doesn't trust them either in this regard which makes the issue of local or Microsoft account not that relevant to a government's decision to ban Windows 8. In fact, because setting up a local account has been deliberately made even more difficult in 8.1 over 8.0 what does that convey to an already suspicious government about the trustworthiness of Microsoft?

If Microsoft makes Windows 9 update constantly via the cloud and only offers (if at all) a traditional Windows with a purchased license (rather than monthly rental) to Enterprise users then this is probably my last computer. I feel very strongly AGAINST ANYTHING to do with the cloud and am also STRONGLY against monthly rental of the OS along with forced cloud updates.

I know Microsoft is (or was before this China announcement -assuming it is true -) on a tear to get everything they offer to be MONTHLY RENTAL ONLY AND CLOUD BASED. I've been appalled at the frequency of the Microsoft feedback panelist surveys recently and that they mostly seem to concentrate on what I as a panelist thinks about yet another Microsoft something going to monthly rental and cloud only.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson


plencnerb
Premium
join:2000-09-25
Carpentersville, IL
kudos:3
reply to Oleg
Again, I guess I'm still confused as to what is "Cloud Storage" inside of Windows 8.x is, as I've never seen it.

Is that what the app OneDrive (aka SkyDrive) is for?

If it is, I know in Windows 8.0 I uninstalled it, along with all the other Modern Apps. In 8.1 and 8.1 Update 1, I could not uninstall it, so I just deleted the shortcut for it so it no longer shows up on my Start Screen.

As far as I can tell, I've never been asked to store any kind of data in the cloud. Everything is local.

Again, I can understand the point of the Chinese Government about storage of data in the cloud, as it may not be as secure as one would like (yes, that is up for discussion in another thread), but if there are ways to remove it or disable it, then what is the problem? Do they find the process to remove or disable it to much of a hassle?

--Brian
--
============================
--Brian Plencner

E-Mail: CoasterBrian72Cancer@gmail.com
Note: Kill Cancer to Reply via e-mail

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
Oh come on....surely you realize China is NOT that concerned with what is NOW with Windows 8 or 8.1.1. They, like me, are concerned with what is coming in the future. If you have a Windows 8 or 8.1 computer it's probably not an upgrade on an old computer but is a new/newish computer expected to last the user 5 years about and maybe longer in a business situation. So, what if, for instance, I upgrade to 8.1 just before 8.0 goes unsupported and six months later Microsoft issues 8.1.3 or.4 or whatever they are at by that point as a REQUIRED UPDATE and 8.1.x forces me to use the cloud with CONTINUOUS updates as the ONLY way to get updates and forces me to use certain Metro apps?

Microsoft is STILL not listening to its customers and, apparently, has no intention of ever doing so again unless you are under 30 and wouldn't be caught dead with a desktop or laptop. Windows 9 sounds plain terrifying for a desktop user. I hope what has been reported is true and I hope EU joins with China and bans Windows 8 on the grounds of lack of privacy and security. Even then, I would predict Microsoft pulling an "EU IE" for China and the lucky citizens of the EU and giving them a decent desktop with no cloud, etc. and NOT restricting it to Enterprise only. If the USA doesn't act to stop Microsoft they will not extend a decent desktop and privacy to USA customers ...especially non Enterprise customers as they don't care at all about anyone over 30 and they know they can act with impunity in the USA.

Oh, BTW, OneDrive is cloud storage in 8.1. You are too trusting and naive when it comes to Microsoft. They are rapidly moving to make everything...Office, Outlook, everything be in the cloud, with forced updates that cannot be turned off. So, the fact that your OneDrive has stayed comfortably inactive presently what about six months or a year from now? Microsoft made the Metro apps - OneDrive, Skype, etc non uninstallable on 8.1 for a reason and that reason can only be that they intend, at some point during the life of Windows 8, to FORCE the use of some of those apps.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson

Happydude32
Premium
join:2005-07-16
kudos:1
I'm pretty sure Skype can be uninstalled in 8.1, I remember doing it as neither of my desktop computers have webcams and I don't have microphones hooked up either so I uninstalled them. I've been using Microsoft OneDrive in lieu of Google Drive lately, so I never tried to uninstall OneDrive, so without looking it up I have no idea if it can be done or not.


plencnerb
Premium
join:2000-09-25
Carpentersville, IL
kudos:3
Yes, Skype is one of the Metro Apps that can be uninstalled.

In fact, here is the full list of all the Metro Apps that come pre-installed on a clean install of Windows 8.1, or a clean install of Windows 8.1 with Update 1. The ones that can not be removed are in bold print.

•Alarms
•Bing Travel
•Calendar (when this is uninstalled, it will also uninstall People and Mail)
•Calculator

•Camera

•Finance
•Food & Drink
•Games
•Health & Fitness
•Help + Tips
•Maps
•Music
•News

•OneDrive

•One Note

•Photos

•Reader
•Reading List
•Scan
•Skype
•Sound Recorder
•Sports
•Video
•Weather

•Windows Store


At one time, I had a similar list for Windows 8.0. In that case, all of the Metro Apps (excluding Windows Store) could be uninstalled by right-clicking on the icon and selecting Uninstall.

So, is there any worry now of something using these remaining Metro Apps at the current time? I don't think so. Here is why.

If I go look in Control Panel and check out the default program screen, I see this




OneDrive, Camera, and Windows Store are not even listed. To me, that means no matter what I click on or try to do its not going to try to launch that application, as its not even set as a default for any file type. As far as my computer knows, they are not even installed.

However, the Photos App is listed, and it does have 18 file types associated with it (out of a possible 43).




I took a look at those 18 file types, and to be honest, I've never head of most of them, except for a few (like .raw). So, the chance of me actually coming across one of these 18 file types, and having it launch the Modern App "Photos" is very low, if not impossible for me.

However, I do agree with Mele20 See Profile's comments in regards to what the future holds for these apps, and what Microsoft will do with them at that time. Sure, right now nothing is set as the "default file type" for OneDrive, but who is to say that in the future, something does get set to that. We don't know what Microsoft is planning to do with these Apps.

So, maybe the Chinese Government is leaning on the side of caution here. Most of the information that we post here comes from the fact that we are super technical people. Most end-users don't know (or to be quite honest, probably don't care) to know all the stuff we do, and will just use whatever is given to them as it comes, without making all these extra modifications. However, if the Chinese Government IT Department took the time to research things like we have, then maybe they could protect themselves now from using the cloud. But, is that good enough for tomorrow? Only time will tell I guess.

--Brian
--
============================
--Brian Plencner

E-Mail: CoasterBrian72Cancer@gmail.com
Note: Kill Cancer to Reply via e-mail

OZO
Premium
join:2003-01-17
kudos:2

1 recommendation

plencnerb See Profile, the problem is not with file associations (as you try to find). The problem is with "integration" with OS. Remember IE? m$ made it "integrated" into Windows OS. So, users, who never used IE or never going to use it, are still at risk of security vulnerabilities associated with IE.

Similar case could be here as well. There are programs "integrated" into OS, and therefore, can't be uninstalled. Those components could lead to security problems (not to mention that some of those programs may run services on the background and/or make similar activities, like execution time-to-time to check for updates or whatever other reason)... User should be able to uninstall all of listed programs, especially those which may connect to cloud (like OneDrive). It's potential security breach for everyone, not only Chinese Govt. (returning back to the topic).

Second, you've mentioned that you don't run computer under m$''s account. Good for you. But not everyone is so familiar with Windows OS to avoid that initial setup that Windows OS is pushing right now. And if you don't know how to avoid you're going to end up hooked into it...

Third, yes some users have skills to hack Windows OS or install third party programs that will remove (or rather replace) unwanted "Modern" UI. But many still use default setup without any hope for help. They can't avoid it, express their frustration, returning Windows 8 computers to stores and buying Apple's PC's. And we see a big decline of W8 sells thanks to that only factor...

And finally, why some one would want to buy a new OS knowing in advance that s/he has to take a lot of sophisticated steps in order to avoid those problems and make it run as s/he used to? Do you buy a new car knowingly that in order to use it you first will have to replace a square steering wheel, that manufacturer by some weird reason pushes on you, with what you used to use - a good ol' round one? Why Windows OS is different?
--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to Oleg
It's not about the cloud or anything specific to do with Windows 8. It's about XP! And about money. China is pissed at Microsoft for discontinuing support for XP which runs on most Chinese government computers. They don't want to have to strike the expensive sort of deal that several other governments have struck to keep getting security patches for XP.

This news is over one month old and has nothing to do with any of the speculation I and others have made in this thread. I don't know if I missed the hoopla a month ago or if I read about it then and then forgot.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson


Link Logger
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
Calgary, AB
kudos:3
reply to Oleg
I've posted images of account numbers and passwords to various bank accounts and nude photos of myself to the cloud and have yet to seen any of that money disappear or received calls from female employees of cloud companies, data must be secure as I'd at least expect some babes calling if it wasn't

The reality is the cloud is happening and will continue to happen (everything its seems is going cloud) and so I've been trying to embrace the idea and using the cloud (especially Microsoft's of course) and other then not getting any babes calling (don't let the wife know), I've been a happy camper thus far.

Now as far as governments or other organizations who have over the top security concerns, I'd suggestion they continue using Windows 7 until, they are comfortable with configuring Windows 8.1/9/X not to use the cloud, or they get comfortable with the cloud, but to say they are concerned about security and still using Windows XP, that's just whacked.

Blake
--
Vendor: Author of Link Logger which is a traffic analysis and firewall logging tool


ZZZZZZZ
Premium
join:2001-05-27
PARADISE
kudos:1
I've never understood the need for cloud or any online storage or why anyone would use them just for security purposes.

I just use ex hds.


Link Logger
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
Calgary, AB
kudos:3
Where the cloud works for me is having access to my docs/photos/email/calendar/music/etc from multiple devices (desktop, laptop, tablet, phone) and given the crappy ISP I'm using (that block everything on their network so using my own cloud isn't really workable), I've been using Microsoft's cloud and its been working rather well.

I have lots of local storage space on pretty much all my devices, and stacks of old hds and business servers in my office here, but its being able to access everything from everywhere that has been very appealing with using their cloud.

Blake
--
Vendor: Author of Link Logger which is a traffic analysis and firewall logging tool


darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Frontier FiOS
reply to ZZZZZZZ
said by ZZZZZZZ:

I've never understood the need for cloud or any online storage or why anyone would use them just for security purposes. I just use ex hds.

I have 12TB NAS at home and I still use cloud storage. Why? Convenience of having access (and yes, sharing!) from everywhere else.

I'm also running system backups to the cloud because hey, if my house burns down (or all my computers are stolen), there goes everything I have!
--
♬ Dragon of good fortune struggles with the trickster Fox ♬


BillRoland
Premium
join:2001-01-21
Ocala, FL
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cox HSI
reply to Oleg
I'd venture to say China doesn't have any problem with the "cloud" per se, they have a problem with Windows being tied in to Microsoft's Cloud, which they know full well the NSA has full and unfettered access to. If Windows was somehow integrated into a Chinese company's "cloud" they wouldn't have a single issue with it because then they would be the ones with that access.

I've long maintained that governments are the biggest champions of the "cloud."
--
Don't blame me, I voted for Ron Paul.
Beyond AM. Beyond FM. (((XM)))


ZZZZZZZ
Premium
join:2001-05-27
PARADISE
kudos:1
reply to darcilicious
quote:
I'm also running system backups to the cloud because hey, if my house burns down (or all my computers are stolen), there goes everything I have!
I see your point.........but I use 3 ext drives and leave a couple in a fireproof safe.

I have one drive that I carry around with my laptop and basically has everything I need including movies for flights.
--
We must learn to live together as brothers or perish together as fools!

Martin Luther King Jr. (1929 - 1968)


mattrixx

join:2004-02-18
Orland Park, IL
reply to OZO
said by OZO:The problem is with "integration" with OS. Remember IE? m$ made it "integrated" into Windows OS. So, users, who never used IE or never going to use it, are still at risk of security vulnerabilities associated with IE.[/bquote :

How are users "at risk of security vulnerabilities" if they NEVER use IE as their Web Browser?


Happydude32
Premium
join:2005-07-16
kudos:1
reply to ZZZZZZZ
I'm not some paranoid privacy nut so I utilize cloud services quite frequently. I use One Drive to share documents I'm working on between home and work, Google Drive as a quick way to offload photos and other content from my phone or tablet to a PC. My entire music collection is uploaded to Google Music allowing to to have a back up of everything with no effort made by me, and all of my music is purchased through Google Music so I can download an MP3 version whenever and where ever I wish or just stream it where ever I am. I don't really have much in the way of digital photos or video, but if I did I would use cloud services for backup for that as well.

I have no life or death documents, absolutely zero 'irreplaceable' photos or video, my music is the only thing I care about because I paid for it, so back up is not a big concern for me, it's all about sharing the same content and having it be up to date between all of my devices, no matter where I am.
--
Phil Robertson/Ted Nugent 2016
4/17/13 - A Beautiful Day For Freedom, Thank You United States Senate!
Message to Anti-Gun Liberals: HA HA! - Hussein Obama 0, American Public 1
Repeal 0bamacare Now!/Marriage = Man + Woman

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to Link Logger
So the Germans and the British and the Dutch (as well as the Chinese) are all "whacked"?

Why the irrelevant sex remarks?
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to ZZZZZZZ
I solve it very easily. I have nothing irreplaceable on a computer.

I believe that liberty and freedom cannot exist without privacy. If that makes me a "privacy nut" so be it. I am proud to be one which is something that cannot be said for most Americans alive today.

If I was running a business on the net then I would need elaborate backup but not for personal use of a computer. I print out important documents and keep them in my safety deposit box at my bank. Otherwise, since I am not running a business I am not that concerned about what is on my computer. I would hate to have to retweak my applications but other than that....versions of apps that I really like, where the latest version of the app is garbage, I burn a copy of the installer. I suppose if the house burned down, a tsunami took out the house, etc. I wouldn't have another backup of that app. Somehow I think I would be a lot more concerned about important things I lost than something on a computer which is for entertainment.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson


Link Logger
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
Calgary, AB
kudos:3
reply to Mele20
There is a lot of whacking going on around the world, people claiming X violates their security requirements but then using Y which is a security violation and then operating as Z (security idiots) and then they blame it on Microsoft, really that is whacked. It was hardly a surprise to anyone that XP was coming to end of life and time to move on and really Windows 7 is brilliant, so you don't have to move to 8.1 from Windows XP. As for me I'm quite happy with Windows 8.1 and Microsoft's cloud and Bill has yet to empty my bank account and my privacy is OK with me as I haven't seen anything yet which has negatively impacted my life or life style.

Blake
--
Vendor: Author of Link Logger which is a traffic analysis and firewall logging tool


Cartel
Premium
join:2006-09-13
Chilliwack, BC
kudos:2
reply to Oleg
dont forget the remote kill switch