dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
11634
share rss forum feed


Subaru
1-3-2-4
Premium
join:2001-05-31
Greenwich, CT
kudos:1

[HVAC] Cooling off 3430 sq.ft

So I have people that don't want to seem like rent, and If I'm correct just without people that amount of size would need around 40,000 BTU to cool? The crazy thing is I was told "I just need it to take the edge off" and they wanted to know about the portable AC units (I hate them all) I'm hoping the price of the 14k BTU unit will be enough to scare him off back to renting but I can't see those units being very good energy wise as well..

Do they have anything that's able to be rented but not a trailer sized unit to cool that? And let alone say 400 some people..
--
It's NOT Ni-kon It's NE-KON!




LG is NOT Lifes Good It's Lucky Goldstar!


davidg
Good Bye My Friend
Premium,MVM
join:2002-06-15
none

[HVAC] Re: Cooling off 3430 sq.ft

I would imagine it would take way more than a 3.5 ton unit to cool that. My house is ~2400 sq ft and it has a 3.5 ton AND a 2.5 ton to cool it(of course we have more heat/humidity than CT). Add in 400 people and you are going to have serious heat gain just from them.

My advice is tell them if they want to cool it they need to take bids on a proper system, renting would be a hassle and much more expensive in the long run.
--
Lack of Preparation on YOUR Part does NOT Constitute an Emergency on Mine!


Subaru
1-3-2-4
Premium
join:2001-05-31
Greenwich, CT
kudos:1
I'm not sure what it calls taking off a edge but I gave a pretty large size drop for the size (I said 10F drop) if they rented it would just be for summer into fall.

They are just telling themselves up for buying 4 of these (doubt it) and running them all at once (now have the breakers to worry about) only to get no gain at all..


pende_tim
Premium
join:2004-01-04
Andover, NJ
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast

3 recommendations

reply to Subaru
The BTU loading for people in sedentary state is about 400 BTU/H for latent and sensible combined per person.

Do the math and you are at 160K for 400 people. That is close to 15 tons... just for the occupancy load.

A 16 SEER unit that size will draw around 10KW
--
The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.


nunya
LXI 483
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:12
reply to Subaru
A little more info on what type of structure you are wanting to cool? Is it your church again? What's wrong with the existing A/C?
--
If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't.

comp
Premium
join:2001-08-16
Evans City, PA
reply to Subaru
It all depends. I have a 2800sqft brand new house and we have a 2ton lennox that cools it fine Based on our energy calculations we have plenty of spare btu


Subaru
1-3-2-4
Premium
join:2001-05-31
Greenwich, CT
kudos:1
reply to nunya
It has no ac it's only forced heat..


nunya
LXI 483
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:12
Reviews:
·Charter
·voip.ms
Oops. Did they overlook that part before they signed the lease?
I'd start guiding them toward ductless split systems for the sanctuary and fellowship hall.
--
If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't.


Subaru
1-3-2-4
Premium
join:2001-05-31
Greenwich, CT
kudos:1
I want to know what place installed forced heat but not AC? It's a old trane system with water fed humidifiers.

The crazy part is when they left the other location they took all the AC units which I think 7 single units plus the Air handlers but because of the design inside it would be very highly ugly looking.

And those mini split system just for the sanctuary you would need at least 4, no? I haven't really looked in what the BTU outputs are on them.
--
It's NOT Ni-kon It's NE-KON!




LG is NOT Lifes Good It's Lucky Goldstar!

robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1
said by Subaru:

And those mini split system just for the sanctuary you would need at least 4, no? I haven't really looked in what the BTU outputs are on them.

Multi-splits are around 4 ton for the condenser units. You would need at least two evaporator units for every one of those.


Subaru
1-3-2-4
Premium
join:2001-05-31
Greenwich, CT
kudos:1
the evaporator part is the one that goes on the wall? I never really looked at the makeup of a mini split but I get somewhat of the unit outside.


InigoMontoya

join:2014-04-28
kudos:1
reply to Subaru
It sounds like you want 3 of these.
»www.thermospace.com/ductless_spl···oner.php


nunya
LXI 483
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:12
Reviews:
·Charter
·voip.ms
reply to Subaru
The condenser goes outside (on the side of the building or on the roof). The evaporator coil is on the inside. The ductless systems come in many configurations. Some can have more than one evaporator per condenser.
»ecomfort.com/m-series-42000-btu-···odlL0A-w
--
If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't.

robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1

1 recommendation

reply to Subaru
Yes, the evaporator is the inside part on wall, in ceiling, etc (they have several different designs). When a mini-split can have more than one indoor unit, they are called multi-splits. The larger ones (4 ton) can have as many as 8 indoor units or as few as 2. Some to look at for more information

Fujitsu Hybrid Flex Inverter System (48,000 btu cooling)
Mitsubishi MXZ Multi-zone System (48,000 btu)
Daikin Multi-Split System (48,000 btu)
LG Multi F System (54,000 btu)

The nice part about these large multi-splits is the length of refrigerant line that can be run. For example, the Fujitsu units can be separated by almost 150 feet; Mitsubishi, 230 feet.

iknow_t

join:2012-05-03
reply to InigoMontoya
said by InigoMontoya:

It sounds like you want 3 of these.
»www.thermospace.com/ductless_spl···oner.php

they are only 13 SEER and use R22 though, which won't be around much longer, if repairs are needed in the future.. whatever is picked will probably be in the $15,000 range excluding labor though..


Subaru
1-3-2-4
Premium
join:2001-05-31
Greenwich, CT
kudos:1
reply to Subaru
The muti split systems can it just act as a single then another added on later? That muti zone is pretty nice but not too sure they will be happy about the price (they always try and cheap out..)

Like I say you have to spend money to save money...

In the offices you have a lot of window shakers at least 6 total..

For the minimum (I never felt the airflow from the mini splits) a single one would be enough or I'd need at least two?
--
It's NOT Ni-kon It's NE-KON!




LG is NOT Lifes Good It's Lucky Goldstar!


Anonymous_
Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
said by Subaru:

The muti split systems can it just act as a single then another added on later? That muti zone is pretty nice but not too sure they will be happy about the price (they always try and cheap out..)

Like I say you have to spend money to save money...

In the offices you have a lot of window shakers at least 6 total..

For the minimum (I never felt the airflow from the mini splits) a single one would be enough or I'd need at least two?

alot of very large houses here have two A/C systems one the first floor and one for the second floor
--
Live Free or Die Hard...

robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1
reply to Subaru
I think all of the multi split systems require at least two indoor units.


Subaru
1-3-2-4
Premium
join:2001-05-31
Greenwich, CT
kudos:1
reply to Anonymous_
Yeah it's like that at my aunt's house.


Subaru
1-3-2-4
Premium
join:2001-05-31
Greenwich, CT
kudos:1
reply to robbin
said by robbin:

I think all of the multi split systems require at least two indoor units.

Just thinking about this and the run back to the condenser two units inside would work it seems just my only concern is the sq footage alone plus 400 people the dual zone is what 60000 btu total


jrs8084
Premium
join:2002-03-02
Statesville, NC
kudos:1
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
I am far from an expert, and this is not my day job. But, I am having a hard time accepting 5 tons of cooling for 3400 SF with 400 occupants will be enough.

But then again, none of us understand what "takes the edge off" really means.

I am not a fan of mini-splits. They are ghetto. They rank down there with window units.


pende_tim
Premium
join:2004-01-04
Andover, NJ
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast

2 edits
reply to Subaru
said by Subaru:

Just thinking about this and the run back to the condenser two units inside would work it seems just my only concern is the sq footage alone plus 400 people the dual zone is what 60000 btu total

No. Just the people load is 160,000 BTU/H ( 400 people x 400 BTU/H/person )
The 400 BTU/H per person is based on 215 sensible and 185 latent.

Building envelope heat gain would be very hard to estimate without knowing construction, insulation, windows orientation, shelter from trees etc, etc. Square footage is a minor component when it comes to calculating a Manual J.
--
The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.


Subaru
1-3-2-4
Premium
join:2001-05-31
Greenwich, CT
kudos:1
reply to jrs8084
said by jrs8084:

I am far from an expert, and this is not my day job. But, I am having a hard time accepting 5 tons of cooling for 3400 SF with 400 occupants will be enough.

But then again, none of us understand what "takes the edge off" really means.

I am not a fan of mini-splits. They are ghetto. They rank down there with window units.

I too don't know what he means.. I guess the "edge" means a 10 F drop in temp as I start off at 72 F in the morning and ends at around 86 F or a little higher.. made bad by high humidity days.
--
It's NOT Ni-kon It's NE-KON!




LG is NOT Lifes Good It's Lucky Goldstar!

iknow_t

join:2012-05-03
reply to Subaru
said by Subaru:

The muti split systems can it just act as a single then another added on later? That muti zone is pretty nice but not too sure they will be happy about the price (they always try and cheap out..)

Like I say you have to spend money to save money...

In the offices you have a lot of window shakers at least 6 total..

For the minimum (I never felt the airflow from the mini splits) a single one would be enough or I'd need at least two?

they could always pass the donation plate around twice at each service, until they get enough money..


Subaru
1-3-2-4
Premium
join:2001-05-31
Greenwich, CT
kudos:1
lol while also saving for the building fund.. $100,000 by Oct


nunya
LXI 483
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:12
God has deep pockets.


Subaru
1-3-2-4
Premium
join:2001-05-31
Greenwich, CT
kudos:1
reply to pende_tim
it has 9 windows on one side, I'd have to check how tall they are.. the building a brick so it should be rather cooler.


Msradell
P.E.
Premium
join:2008-12-25
Louisville, KY
reply to Subaru
said by Subaru:

said by jrs8084:

I am far from an expert, and this is not my day job. But, I am having a hard time accepting 5 tons of cooling for 3400 SF with 400 occupants will be enough.

But then again, none of us understand what "takes the edge off" really means.

I am not a fan of mini-splits. They are ghetto. They rank down there with window units.

I too don't know what he means.. I guess the "edge" means a 10 F drop in temp as I start off at 72 F in the morning and ends at around 86 F or a little higher.. made bad by high humidity days.

You'd probably want to take it lower than that before everyone arrived maybe 66° or so. If you left it at that temperature for a while you would develop a good bit of thermal mass to keep a temperature from rising too rapidly when everyone was there. Hopefully your services are not super long like some churches have.
--
Written using Dragon NaturallySpeaking


Subaru
1-3-2-4
Premium
join:2001-05-31
Greenwich, CT
kudos:1

1 edit
Well next month its going to be pretty long but that's mostly for night services but normal is 5 hours..

I try and take it cool before service starts but can't keep the doors open so it's like a greenhouse before noon.

Windows in the picture the right side is 11'9" tall (7 windows)

And the left they are separated by wood but since it spans it gets counted as a single window.. and they are 11'7" each with 9 windows


Subaru
1-3-2-4
Premium
join:2001-05-31
Greenwich, CT
kudos:1
reply to Subaru
OK what about this.. say I got the 60K btu mini split and ran it say 4 hours before service is it too much to expect a 10F drop within that time frame? The issue is really only for a 4 day event. mostly it would be far less then 400.. more like around 250 or so but I wanted to factor in the worst case of the amount of people.