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me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO

Ubisoft employee admits to downgrading Division.

"We really loved the reception to the demo we showed on the PC version at E3. Currently as it stands, there is definitely a lot of push coming from publishers to not make the experience so different on consoles as to alienate people into thinking that next generation is not as powerful as PC. This is probably what happened at Ubisoft Montreal. I think that while making stability changes is definitely important, it does not completely obliterate a lot of enhanced rendering applications.

Right now we already took out quite a lot of screen space reflections from the game and are working on asset management the best we can given consoles have that great unified memory. Naturally we will also be using online servers and have to produce a synchronization that higher graphics add to the latency so it had to be turned down. To me it still looks good, but not as good as the original reveal. I am sure as we get closer to launch and the actual console versions of the game featuring SD (Snowdrop) that it will start to seem all too obvious to people especially those on PCs. I just wanted to write and let you know that it definitely is not just stability but marketing politics plays into this a lot as well."

UPDATED 2nd Response from The Division Developer: "Truth be told in regards to your question that while ‘Yes’ the lead platform is the PC, we simply cannot have such a big gap. As you know when the first WATCH DOGS Review was published by that one site, Ubisoft called it a “false review” and I am sure everyone can see how bad that sounded when they saw the game did look marginally better than something that was a last generation GTA IV. But no, they will not admit that they practice this or actively downgrade a game. It is much easier to say they removed things for stability which is often a lie as you can tell by the post-issues which are expected in any production we do.

Also to answer your 3rd question, no…they will never fully disclose what was removed from what build as no laws ask them to do so in terms of consumer rights. If we as developers published that information in very real terms for the consumer such as “Replaced particle fog simulation with 2d layer simulation in 3d space, removed particles from all explosions, lowered explosion volume multiplier by 20x, removed X # of trees and civilians, etc.” we would be out of a lot of sales and probably it would actually require too much time to deliver on the current hype that a lot of downgraded games see which look incredible with a vertical slice. I do share this in the hope’s that my colleagues and publishers and a lot of people who make false promises and do demonstrations which wrongfully create too much hype that they cannot deliver on ultimately stop doing such things. I want to see the industry actually move forward and not be so full of itself by promising too much and delivering too little. Regards."

source:
»linustechtips.com/main/topic/170···wngrade/

I can sort of understand developers wanting the console version to not be too far behind, but do they really think console players are so stupid as to think a $400 console can do the exact same thing exactly as well as a $800+ pc?


Krisnatharok
Caveat Emptor
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Earth Orbit
kudos:12
Wooooow. Fuck them.


Kilroy
Premium,MVM
join:2002-11-21
Saint Paul, MN
reply to me1212
I think that these game publishers are looking at this the wrong way. When they downgrade the PC performance, especially after demoing an improved version at a trade show, they can expect poor reviews and those poor reviews will result in lower sales.
--
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." - Robert A. Heinlein

clawfury

join:2012-02-14
Rochester, MI
reply to me1212
Man, that's f*cked up. We all suspected this for a while now - nice to finally see a confirmation.


Ghastlyone
Premium
join:2009-01-07
Las Vegas, NV
kudos:5

1 recommendation

reply to me1212
Collectors Edition pre-ordered


Krisnatharok
Caveat Emptor
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Earth Orbit
kudos:12

1 recommendation

You're going to go all Office Space on it, right? Post the video, in HD! (not that an Xbox can render that...)


bionicRod
Funkier than a mohair disco ball.
Premium
join:2009-07-06
united state
kudos:2
reply to me1212
Holy shitballs.

sk1939
Premium
join:2010-10-23
Mclean, VA
kudos:10
reply to me1212
I'd heard about that with Watch Dogs. There have been rumors to that extent for a while now, even going back to Mass Effect 3 where EA didn't want performance to differ too much between PC and Xbox.


Krisnatharok
Caveat Emptor
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Earth Orbit
kudos:12
reply to me1212
I'm tempted to go buy a Connie in Star Citizen (about $250) and then tweet Ubisoft and tell them that's the money I would have spent on their games over the next 5 years (two Asassin's Creeds, two Clancy games, FC4) and then go enjoy it in its PC-exclusive super HD goodness.
--
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.


Goggalor
Psychonaut
Premium
join:2009-06-09
Your Mind!
kudos:2
$250 (additional dollars) for a game that you might get 50 hours of gameplay from or $250 for 6 games that would probably give you double or more hours of entertainment? It seems silly, to me, that you would you disservice yourself so much simply because the graphics have been downgraded (and can usually be edited quite easily with a tweak), whereas the gameplay has not.


cheesyyellow

join:2009-06-04
Poulsbo, WA
reply to me1212
Unfortunately most console player do beleive that their next-gen consoles can do as much as a PC. The devs know this and cater to them. The days of the PC being the "lead platform" in most cases is over and this makes me sad.

me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO
reply to Goggalor
Give money to devs that haven't lied to you and aren't makeing games actively look worse and possibly run worse on your platform of choice, or give money to devs that actively lie make games look worse and possibly run worse on the platform you play on.


mazhurg
Premium
join:2004-05-02
Brighton, ON
Reviews:
·MTS
reply to me1212
said by me1212:

I can sort of understand developers wanting the console version to not be too far behind, but do they really think console players are so stupid as to think a $400 console can do the exact same thing exactly as well as a $800+ pc?

Do you really need an answer to that question?


Krisnatharok
Caveat Emptor
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Earth Orbit
kudos:12
reply to Goggalor
said by Goggalor:

$250 (additional dollars) for a game that you might get 50 hours of gameplay from or $250 for 6 games that would probably give you double or more hours of entertainment? It seems silly, to me, that you would you disservice yourself so much simply because the graphics have been downgraded (and can usually be edited quite easily with a tweak), whereas the gameplay has not.

I've already put close to 150 hours into BF4, a game which is pretty much a clone to BF3. I expect to put hundreds of hours into SC.

And it absolutely is worth it to disservice myself from playing those games to send the message to Ubisoft that we don't mind that they focus on console development, as long as PC versions are not crippled, and occasionally see high-def eye candy for the superior race. I guess that's too much to ask.

Heck, even Crytek came out with an HD texture pack for the later Crysis games. That is good enough for me.
--
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.


Adalicia
Om Nom Nom

join:2009-10-13
Lincoln, NE
kudos:13
Eh, you really can't be surprised Kris. Ubisoft has been a terrible company for years. Draconian DRM, UPlay, and annual cash grabs. I mean, I am not the person that Ubisoft is making games for, I just want Beyond Good & Evil 2, that is about it. I'd be fine not touching anything else they make. Well, maybe another good Rayman game. And Child of Light is charming. I mean...er forget it.

Anyway, just rejoice when the Witcher 3 comes out and CD Projekt Red does what it always does. Makes an amazing PC game that is capable of fantastic visual fidelity in conjunction with a beautiful art ascetic, and then laugh as it looks significantly worse and runs poorly on the peasant boxes.
--
Lore Nerd. Role Player. Slightly Annoying. Also Likes Kittens.

me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO
I've yet to see the consoles do better than TW2 + sweetfx, let alone what TW3 will bring us.


Ghastlyone
Premium
join:2009-01-07
Las Vegas, NV
kudos:5
reply to me1212
This "equalization" across all platforms on multi-plat games is pure bullshit.

I remember back in the SNES and Genesis era, certain multi plat games were like night and day difference between each platform. And you know what you did if you wanted the superior version? You purchased that platform. If not, then you sucked it up and dealt with the crappier version.

There's a cure for this...stop pre-ordering/buying their shit.

Luckily most the Ubisoft games I've played recently, I got free with a video card purchase.


Goggalor
Psychonaut
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join:2009-06-09
Your Mind!
kudos:2
reply to Krisnatharok
said by me1212:

Give money to devs that haven't lied to you and aren't makeing games actively look worse and possibly run worse on your platform of choice, or give money to devs that actively lie make games look worse and possibly run worse on the platform you play on.

Slight apples and oranges as SC is only coming out on PC.

Also, wasn't the original intention of the kickstarter that it would be the only income that would be used to fund SC?

said by Krisnatharok:

I've already put close to 150 hours into BF4, a game which is pretty much a clone to BF3. I expect to put hundreds of hours into SC.

I genuinely hope you (and I, as I also kickstarted it) do.

said by Krisnatharok:

And it absolutely is worth it to disservice myself from playing those games to send the message to Ubisoft that we don't mind that they focus on console development, as long as PC versions are not crippled, and occasionally see high-def eye candy for the superior graphics race. I guess that's too much to ask.

It is not too much to ask and it is your money to do with how you please. I enjoy Ubisoft's games, so will continue to show my support if the games continue to be good/great.

said by Krisnatharok:

Heck, even Crytek came out with an HD texture pack for the later Crysis games. That is good enough for me.

How long after the games came out did Crytek release the pack? Day of release or later on?
--
From Psychonauts -
Lungfish Civilian: (describing Goggalor) He's impervious to bullets! ... and love!
--


TigerLord
UEE Citizen
Premium,Mod
join:2002-06-09
Canada
kudos:8
reply to Krisnatharok
said by Krisnatharok:

Wooooow. Fuck them.

With pogo sticks.

What a bunch of primitive retards.


Krisnatharok
Caveat Emptor
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Earth Orbit
kudos:12

8 recommendations



me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO

2 recommendations

I lost it at on board audio the silent killer.


Mashiki
Balking The Enemy's Plans

join:2002-02-04
Woodstock, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·Rogers Hi-Speed
·Bright House
reply to cheesyyellow
said by cheesyyellow:

Unfortunately most console player do beleive that their next-gen consoles can do as much as a PC. The devs know this and cater to them. The days of the PC being the "lead platform" in most cases is over and this makes me sad.

I think you're talking about the period from 2003-2011, if anything more devs have been making PC the lead plaform for the past 3 years than over the previous period. Where developers actively bailed, and believed that "consoles were the future."
--
The Art of War
"Excessive law is no law." - Cicero
The man who fed the world


onebadmofo
gat gnitsoP
Premium
join:2002-03-30
Reading, PA
kudos:1
reply to me1212
I'm strictly a console player. I'm on the computer too much at work to be able to seriously game on it at home as well.

But this is just stupid. Dumb down a PC game so that the console versions don't look as bad? Huh??? That's how it's always been! It's always been that the PC version was years ahead of the console version. Heck, for console gamers it was always a glimpse into the future making us think, "wow...maybe one day consoles will look as good as that."

Ooor this is a way for them to sell TWO copies to PC gamers. They bring the dumbed down version out first and those who can't wait to play it will buy it. And then sell it again, as a true revamp with graphics that make you want to finger your butthole. Those who already bought it will buy it again. It's a TRUE American way of doing business. It's basically how Microsoft makes it's profits, so why not follow their successful rip off tactics, and do it with games as well.
--
Insert thoughtful/witty/meaningful/poetic/funny/deep/rude/stupid/random/comment here.
Be unique...ya know, like everyone else.


Dissembled

join:2008-01-23
Indianapolis, IN
reply to me1212
Maybe this will be a good thing for PC players. Someone will eventually use this to their advantage and market their game for PC as "Hey, we don't dumb down ours!". It will be a great success and then everyone else will realize they need to follow suit.

If Wilson isn't full of shit about turning EA around, maybe they'll be the first to do this.

Haha


ekster
Hi there
Premium
join:2010-07-16
Lachine, QC
kudos:3
Witcher 3 is already here.


Kilroy
Premium,MVM
join:2002-11-21
Saint Paul, MN
reply to Mashiki
said by Mashiki:

Where developers actively bailed, and believed that "consoles were the future."

And now those same fickle developers are now migrating to the mobile app market and ditching the consoles too.
--
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." - Robert A. Heinlein


bionicRod
Funkier than a mohair disco ball.
Premium
join:2009-07-06
united state
kudos:2
reply to onebadmofo
I think it's more along the lines of not wanting to lose console sales to the PC and fragment a concentrated market. Developing for consoles has got to be cheaper and easier due to having the exact same specs on every machine compared to custom PC builds and differing hardware. I mean if the difference between game versions is HUGE, and it can be (check out Witcher 2 in 1600p with all the eye candy turned on if you ever get a chance) people will start thinking that with just a couple hundred bucks more than their console they could have a decent gaming PC that would look and play tons better. And now with Steamboxes and wireless hdmi gaming on PC is no longer relegated to a monitor and computer desk.
--
The world was movin' she was right there with it and she was


Adalicia
Om Nom Nom

join:2009-10-13
Lincoln, NE
kudos:13
said by bionicRod:

Developing for consoles has got to be cheaper and easier due to having the exact same specs on every machine compared to custom PC builds and differing hardware.

God of War III: ~44 Million
Gran Turismo 5: ~60 Million
Homefront: ~50 Million
Watch_Dogs: ~68 Million
Destiny: ~140 Million
COD: MW2: ~200 Million

Crysis: ~20.4 Million
The Witcher: ~6.5 Million
The Witcher II: ~8.2 Million
RIFT: ~70 Million
SW:TOR: ~200 Million

As you can see, it makes little difference. Some games have massive bloated budgets and development costs and some don't. Some are good. Some aren't. Some have back end costs (MMO's for example) and others don't.
--
Lore Nerd. Role Player. Slightly Annoying. Also Likes Kittens.


ekster
Hi there
Premium
join:2010-07-16
Lachine, QC
kudos:3
Reviews:
·FreePhoneLine
How much of those budgets is 'advertising' though?

Witcher barely had any. It kind of came out of nowhere with Witcher 1 and needed no advertising for Witcher 2. The game actually sold itself.

COD, SW:TOR, Watch Dogs, Destiny, etc. were/are complete advertising hoes, however. They can't step out of their building without making a new ad.


bionicRod
Funkier than a mohair disco ball.
Premium
join:2009-07-06
united state
kudos:2
reply to Adalicia
said by Adalicia:

As you can see, it makes little difference.

Are those the entire budgets of those games or just the development budgets? I'm guessing a lot of those big numbers are spent on other things than straight up development, such as licensing, advertising, promotions and such. I'm talking about simplicity from a strictly development standpoint, which you would think would equal cost savings. But I'm just thinking out loud.
--
The world was movin' she was right there with it and she was