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jdsf8934ohsd

@216.220.43.x

[Cable] Pricing

I was just looking over this topic: »[COMPARISON CHART for TPIA in Rogers' 'Hood]

In every example listed, Teksavvy is the most expensive or the same price as the most expensive option, but with a smaller cap. What gives?


tektektek

@135.23.199.x
That Teksavvy do not necessary want the very high usage users anymore


HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:22
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
said by tektektek :

That Teksavvy do not necessary want the very high usage users anymore

And that they already have a large amount of heavy users that are costing a lot in capacity rates.

Not necessarily 1TB+ people but even folks that are coming close to 300GB are probably a money losing proposition.

The CBB rates review can't come soon enough.
--


aereolis

join:2003-06-12
Brampton, ON

1 edit
reply to jdsf8934ohsd
I doubt that 300gb users are causing issues really. Marc chyme in here how much you pay per TB or GB? Less than $0.01/GB wholesale from tornado or something (I forget the name).

Personally I think it's the ones who consistantly go over 500gb monthly, and those unlimited which could cause issues, but teksavvy charges quite a bit more for those plans, like $15 more i think? Using math that makes about 1,500 gb, and if they go over that then tek starts loosing money. Oops...plus the CBB....

Tek has been doing this for enough years to know approximately how much they need to charge to cover all their overhead and costs. Those who charge significantly less either have much less overhead, or have poor business practices. As companies grow they get more employees which means they need to charge more for their services to pay all those employees.

henry128

join:2010-09-03
Mississauga, ON
kudos:1
These amounts are listed in the tariff documents:
* Bell is $1036.49/mo per 100 Mbps
* Rogers is $1400/mo per 100 Mbps
* Cogego: $2556/mo per 100 Mbps

$/GB really depends on how much of that 300GB is used during peak hours (which is really only ~4-6 hours per day, not 18 hours as currently used to do the download accounting).

Using Bell ($1036.49/mo/100Mbps):
100 Mbps for a month gets you 31640 GB, or 3.3 cents per GB. But since the capacity is sized for the 4-hour per day peak period, you could argue at the other extreme that only data consumed during that 4-hour window has a cost and the rest of the day is free. 100 Mbps, 4 hours a day, for a month gets you 5273 peak-hour GB, or 20c/peak-hour GB.

kevinds
Premium
join:2003-05-01
Calgary, AB
kudos:3
That is just capacity to the last mile network, which I suspect is where most of their expense is, but nothing confirming that.

Those figures don't include transit costs

henry128

join:2010-09-03
Mississauga, ON
kudos:1
reply to jdsf8934ohsd
Let's not forget that Teksavvy has better brand recognition, and is therefore entitled to higher profits before customers will go elsewhere. If price were the only criterion, the incumbents would have very few retail customers left.


MacGyver
Don't Waste Your Energy
Premium,ExMod 2003-05
join:2001-10-14
Canada
kudos:2
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·voip.ms

1 recommendation

reply to jdsf8934ohsd
TekSavvy has invested a pile of money into it's backbone network, with some great peering arrangements, so Savvy users like me can get stable and low pings for online gaming, VoIP, and Skype. TekSavvy also has people like TSI Gabe See Profile who can magically diagnose and fix weird routing issues to keep customers happy. IPv6? No problem. Fighting for customers against the big boys? Yup. Innovative billing structures. This and other stuff is why I remain a TekSavvy customer.


jmck
formerly 'shaded'

join:2010-10-02
Ottawa, ON

1 recommendation

reply to jdsf8934ohsd
someone needs to pay for all the underwears and posters.

btech805

join:2013-08-01
Canada
kudos:12
reply to MacGyver
This is all correct and why tsi can command a slightly higher rate. Tek has done alot of work and bends over backwards for their customers when possible. If I wasn't a BCE employee and receiving a discount on my services I'd be a TSI customer myself!
--
My opinions are my own and do not represent the opinions or wishes of BCE or any of it's subsidiaries.


Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to kevinds
said by kevinds:

That is just capacity to the last mile network, which I suspect is where most of their expense is, but nothing confirming that.

Those figures don't include transit costs

Transit costs are inconsequential next to the cost of CBB. Large commits from tier 1 providers can go as low as $0.40 USD per megabit these days, although I doubt TSI is quite in the range to get those sort of prices.
--
Latest version of CapSavvy systray usage checker: »CapSavvy v4.3 released!

zacsaunders

join:2012-05-12
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to MacGyver
+1, I have been with start/rogers/bell/vmedia and tek has had the lowest ping by a good amount for online gaming (usually 64~70ms for league of legends) everyone else near me gets 80+. Even that tiny bit of latency makes the extra cost worth it to me, not to mention the other benefits (ZTC, Support, etcetc)

Webslinger

join:2004-05-01

4 edits
reply to jdsf8934ohsd
said by jdsf8934ohsd :

In every example listed, Teksavvy is the most expensive or the same price as the most expensive option, but with a smaller cap. What gives?

Zap the Cap is where Teksavvy pricing has an advantage.

Ebox doesn't have a Netflix cache server for Ontario cable users, and at the moment, it doesn't offer unlimited usage during 2 a.m. to 8 a.m. in Ontario, but they are working on implementing something. I'm not convinced Ebox's aggressive Ontario pricing is sustainable in the long term. But I did give them some serious consideration. Ebox's rep is very honest and very approachable. I think they're in good hands, and I'm interested in what the future for them holds.

Start actually has the top rated customer service out of any provider in Canada, and if they offered something similar to ZTC, this would be a more interesting conversation (for me). The CEO is also very approachable, and I also look forward to what they have planned in the future. I do trust Start, and from what I've seen its network is excellent. And they care about routing and using quality transit providers.

Vmedia is predominately flooded with customer complaints here in at least a couple of forums. It's going through some growing pains, I feel. And I know some people who have left Acanac. At this time, I wouldn't consider either of those options. Maybe reps are going to come in here and start defending their services, but whatever . . .

For now the cheapest, palatable (to me) unlimited option is coming via Teksavvy due to the well thought out Zap the Cap plan. If you're not using ZTC, then yeah, I would agree that looking around may make sense.

geokilla

join:2010-10-04
North York, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to HiVolt
said by HiVolt:

said by tektektek :

That Teksavvy do not necessary want the very high usage users anymore

And that they already have a large amount of heavy users that are costing a lot in capacity rates.

Not necessarily 1TB+ people but even folks that are coming close to 300GB are probably a money losing proposition.

The CBB rates review can't come soon enough.

I think it depends on when you use the 300GB, not how much you use. They've always said that peak hours cost them the most. This probably means that if I shift all my major downloads to before 5pm like I do, then I'd cost Teksavvy less than if I did my major downloads after 5pm, even if I downloaded the same 300GB content.
--
Teksavvy Cable - 25/2/300GB
Motorola SB6120
ASUS RT-N66U - DD-WRT

henry128

join:2010-09-03
Mississauga, ON
kudos:1
said by geokilla:

I think it depends on when you use the 300GB, not how much you use. They've always said that peak hours cost them the most. This probably means that if I shift all my major downloads to before 5pm like I do, then I'd cost Teksavvy less than if I did my major downloads after 5pm

That's true, but I think HiVolt is also right.

If you assume the (unachievable) scenario where customers shift all downloads so that demand is constant all day every day, the CBB rate ($1400/mo/100 Mbps for Rogers) still implies a lower-bound cost of 4.4c/GB or $13.27/300 GB. Add that to the per-user cost (e.g., $19.25 for Rogers 10 Mbps), and that's a total cost paid to Rogers of $32.52 for a package with a retail price of $44.95 (which has to pay for other costs and profit).

xdrag

join:2005-02-18
North York, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable

1 edit
reply to Webslinger
said by Webslinger:

said by jdsf8934ohsd :

In every example listed, Teksavvy is the most expensive or the same price as the most expensive option, but with a smaller cap. What gives?

Zap the Cap is where Teksavvy pricing has an advantage.

Ebox doesn't have a Netflix cache server for Ontario cable users, and at the moment, it doesn't offer unlimited usage during 2 a.m. to 8 a.m. in Ontario, but they are working on implementing something. I'm not convinced Ebox's aggressive Ontario pricing is sustainable in the long term. But I did give them some serious consideration. Ebox's rep is very honest and very approachable. I think they're in good hands, and I'm interested in what the future for them holds.

Start actually has the top rated customer service out of any provider in Canada, and if they offered something similar to ZTC, this would be a more interesting conversation (for me). The CEO is also very approachable, and I also look forward to what they have planned in the future. I do trust Start, and from what I've seen its network is excellent. And they care about routing and using quality transit providers.

Vmedia is predominately flooded with customer complaints here in at least a couple of forums. It's going through some growing pains, I feel. And I know some people who have left Acanac. At this time, I wouldn't consider either of those options. Maybe reps are going to come in here and start defending their services, but whatever . . .

For now the cheapest, palatable (to me) unlimited option is coming via Teksavvy due to the well thought out Zap the Cap plan. If you're not using ZTC, then yeah, I would agree that looking around may make sense.

IMO though there are some packages from start.ca/ebox that are much much cheaper than TSI. 20+ % difference in cost.

ZTC is innovative but people are reporting issues with pings and the speed decrease is a hard hit for people with the highest speeds. Their unlimited late-night download and upload is great. BUT, for example, ebox offers 1 TB of usage for a reasonable price which mitigates the need for ZTC or these features.

I would encourage people to shop around based on their needs. Since TSI has become a much larger entity, the staffing has become the major increase in cost.

Sure, TSI has to invest in equipment but on average, each additional body will cost them $40,000 per year. Imagine how many more subs (and profit) they have to sell per year to feed this new employee.

I've been a TSI customer for almost a decade but might consider switching since the pricing has become a lot more competitive and start/ebox/rogers are now have quite an attractive pricing. Unlike most people here, i already receive a $5 discount from referrals so I can imagine how much more expensive the new plans are for people.

I'm a bit tired from playing the "rogers" game. Submitting a ticket to TSI, TSI contacts rogers and rogers might do something about it. On top of that, there's the issue of my modem becoming "obsolete". I bought a 6121 a few years ago for $100+ and now I can't even use it on the new packages. I also have to find Teddy to flash my modem everytime rogers pushes a new firmware.

Webslinger

join:2004-05-01

3 edits
Again, I'm skeptical that Ebox's current aggressive Ontario pricing is sustainable in the long term (appears to be promotional
In nature and intended to attract new Ontario cable customers) and they also don't offer a Netflix cache server for Ontario customers. Pings for Ontario customers are slightly higher since some stuff is going through Quebec first.

Consequently, at this point, I feel Start and Teksavvy have better networks for Ontario cable customers.

If you're looking for unlimited from Start (which isn't true unlimited), you're (on the 60/10 service), looking to pay an extra $10 than the ZTC option from Teksavvy.

If you're not using ZTC, Start looks mighty attractive.

xdrag

join:2005-02-18
North York, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable

1 edit
said by Webslinger:

Again, I'm skeptical that Ebox's current Ontario pricing is sustainable in the long term, and they also don't offer a Netflix cache server for Ontario customers. Pings for Ontario customers are slightly higher since some stuff is going through Quebec first.

Consequently, at this point, I feel Start and Teksavvy have better Ontario cable networks.

If you're looking for unlimited from Start (which isn't true unlimited), you're (on the 60/10 service), looking to pay an extra $10 than the ZTC option from Teksavvy.

If you're not using ZTC, Start looks mighty attractive.

I am aware that Start does "prioritize" the bandwidth once you exceed 30Gb download per day. That being said, most people don't complain about it or there's no wide-spread report of their unlimited being much worse than TSI. I think the policy is there just to keep people from abusing their connection and controlling the cost.

Again, the ZTC option reduces the speed of 60 to 15megs but for start, it's 60 all the time and (in practice) unlimited. TSI's true unlimited is $15+tax more than start.

I agree that ebox may not be sustainable in pricing but also, that's money saved now rather than a hypothetical situation in the future. If it's terrible, take their promo and with no contracts, switch to TSI, start or somewhere else.

beauty of competition

Webslinger

join:2004-05-01

3 edits
Not sure I want to jump to a network that's going to give me higher pings and potentially inferior Netflix service

I thought TSI doesn't wave install fees.

So if you jump to Ebox and notice that its network is worse, you'd have to jump to Start to avoid install fees, I think.

And then you're looking at $80 for 60/10 unlimited with Start.
I'd rather go with ZTC for now for $10 less.

Otherwise, I'm in agreement with you about Teksavvy's pricing.

If I were not going with ZTC, I'd probably take a long hard look at Start.

xdrag

join:2005-02-18
North York, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable

3 edits
said by Webslinger:

Not sure I want to jump to a network that's going to give me higher pings and potentially inferior Netflix service

I thought TSI doesn't wave install fees.

So if you jump to Ebox and notice that its network is worse, you'd have to jump to Start to avoid install fees, I think.

And then you're looking at $80 for 60/10 unlimited with Start.
I'd rather go with ZTC for now for $10 less.

If I were not going with ZTC, I'd probably take a long hard look at Start.

Quite frankly, I'm going to play the devil's advocate and say that rogers is offering 50% off their internet plans if you get their winback department. Pretty hard to pass up since the 150 plan can be had for $60 even just for a year.

I've been a TSI customer (and supporter) before the majority of the people here and dating back to DSL and pre-cable era. I've stuck with them with the whole congested POI link issues that brought my internet to a crawl (that had to be upgraded again and again and again and again....) because TSI oversubscribed. Then there was the install issues and super super long wait times (when rogers decided to screw with the tickets).

I don't think I need to be told why TSI is a great company. But it's also awareness that there's competitive pricing out there. I'm a little tired of getting caught in the middle of the rogers/TSI gong show. Revolving modem requirements, pricing and ticketing. Yikes.

Ideally i should just move into a complex with a beanfield connection and never worry about internet again.


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7

3 edits
reply to jdsf8934ohsd
 
I deleted this post myself, as it was not necessary anymore.

Webslinger

join:2004-05-01
reply to xdrag
said by xdrag:

Quite frankly, I'm going to play the devil's advocate and say that rogers is offering 50% off their internet plans if you get their winback department. Pretty hard to pass up since the 150 plan can be had for $60 even just for a year.

Other than ZTC, I'm right with you on Teksavvy's pricing.

However, since I haven't been a Rogers customer in years, I don't qualify for the promotion you just mentioned.


ekster
Hi there
Premium
join:2010-07-16
Lachine, QC
kudos:3
reply to jdsf8934ohsd
Let's also not forget the time and workforce that TSI has spent on courts and CRTC proceedings for which some of the other smaller indie ISPs did not contribute, but still benefited from the end results. Those can get very expensive very quickly.

Wheemer8

join:2005-11-30
North York, ON
reply to Webslinger
The 300 GB limit is forcing us to look for a more affordable solution. You can get unlimited 60/10 for 70 bucks a couple of places. I've just seen eBox's 67 dollar 1TB package.

You guys think ebox is good? I'm not sticking around with Teksaavy if they are not updating their prices.

Webslinger

join:2004-05-01

3 edits
said by Wheemer8:

You guys think ebox is good?

- Ebox doesn't have a Netflix cache server for Ontario cable customers

- Ebox pings will be slightly higher (probably add 7 to 9 ms to your current pings) for Ontario cable customers due to traffic going through Quebec first

- Ebox email doesn't have an option to send via SMTP outside of its own network

- Ebox's current pricing for Ontario cable customers is not likely sustainable in the long term (aggressive pricing likely reflects a desire to land more Ontario cable customers)

In terms of its network, I think the only true alternative to Teksavvy is Start Communications for Ontario cable internet customers.

That said, I think the future looks bright for Ebox, their rep on dslreports is very honest and approachable, and the things I listed may not affect you much.

mikekay
Premium
join:2011-01-29
Kitchener, ON
reply to jdsf8934ohsd
The website is brutally slow dont know what that says about the service :|

Im also on a 250/250 eHO link at work so I doubt its me

JMJimmy

join:2008-07-23
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to MacGyver
said by MacGyver:

TekSavvy has invested a pile of money into it's backbone network, with some great peering arrangements, so Savvy users like me can get stable and low pings for online gaming, VoIP, and Skype. TekSavvy also has people like TSI Gabe See Profile who can magically diagnose and fix weird routing issues to keep customers happy. IPv6? No problem. Fighting for customers against the big boys? Yup. Innovative billing structures. This and other stuff is why I remain a TekSavvy customer.

+1

Though I'd like to see a flatter logistics curve in their pricing

mikekay
Premium
join:2011-01-29
Kitchener, ON
said by JMJimmy:

said by MacGyver:

TekSavvy has invested a pile of money into it's backbone network, with some great peering arrangements, so Savvy users like me can get stable and low pings for online gaming, VoIP, and Skype. TekSavvy also has people like TSI Gabe See Profile who can magically diagnose and fix weird routing issues to keep customers happy. IPv6? No problem. Fighting for customers against the big boys? Yup. Innovative billing structures. This and other stuff is why I remain a TekSavvy customer.

+1

Though I'd like to see a flatter logistics curve in their pricing

Even start is looking pretty good and going from aDSL to vDSL soon the modem + activation is due anyway so shouldn't really matter where I go I wish they would come down just a wee bit especially on the unlimited accounts. But a static IP, unlimited upload, and free times work for me -- plus theres the whole ztc thing too.


MacGyver
Don't Waste Your Energy
Premium,ExMod 2003-05
join:2001-10-14
Canada
kudos:2
I think it's wonderful that we can have this discussion about various ISP options, and that there are viable options. There are many people who don't have such choice.

mikekay
Premium
join:2011-01-29
Kitchener, ON
AS in?