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GenZod

join:2014-06-26

[Internet] No cable to "rural" Cambridge location. Really?

For a family of heavy technology and internet users, you'd think we would have checked first... but...

We're closing on a new (to us) home next month. When we talked to our ISP about relocation, though, we discovered that the location is too far from a CO for DSL to be viable. "No problem," we thought. "High speed cable should do."

The online postal code search looked good, but the code covers a relatively large chunk o' geography. According to one of their live-chat agents, though... Rogers does not have service to that address.

Mapped out: »goo.gl/maps/MyT3K (location is approximate)

"C'mon... there's gotta be something running out there!" It's so tantalizingly close to that subdivision at Hespeler and Fisher Mills/Guelph Road. There's an enormous hub of new home construction to the west, when Kossuth when it turns into Fairway Road. So close... yet so far away.

Of course, try navigating Rogers website or infrastructure to get straight answers.

It would be nice to know what trunks might be close by, or if service expansion into that area is anticipated (or can be encouraged). Bah. Any suggestions or technical/local perspective?

My realtor is following up with the current homeowners to see if they can shed a little light on it. Do the neighbours have cable? Dunno. "It's not like you're in the middle of nowhere." I'm looking at fixed-wireless ISPs in the service area for now, and cringing at the idea of investing in sat gear for TV +/- internet. Getting cable to that location would certainly go a long way toward making our "forever home" feel a little more ideal... and it would be nice to be able to plan in a better informed manner.

Seriously. I'm looking forward to your thoughts. Thanks in advance.

- Kneel



elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2

Has far as the Telco's are concerned,you live in BF nowhere, bugt HEY we'll sell you a cell hub with low low caps
--
My Name is Wiley E Coyote, Super Genius


GenZod

join:2014-06-26

Yup. $90 for 20GB/month being classified as "heavy use" is sadly comical. $10 per GB overage? Ouch.



LondonDave
Premium
join:2011-09-05
London, ON
Reviews:
·Bell Fibe
reply to GenZod

You may be able to bond 2 basic 6/800k dsl lines togeather to get something that would equal 6/800k with a nice montly data cap. Rural telco cable is sometimes a larger gauge which may deal with the distance a tad better.

If you don't have cable in front of the property it will be 10's of thousands to get it.


GenZod

join:2014-06-26

Looked into that. Regrettably I'm told DSL is not an option there at all because of the distance from any CO.

Right now we're looking into services like »www.megawire.ca/ »www.bluwest.com and »www.netflash.net but will those continue to be the only options, and for how long?


king_2014

join:2010-09-15
King City, ON
reply to GenZod

If your in an area where there is no cable or dsl. I would never recommend Satellite Internet. It is the worst possible internet you can get. I believe far worse than dial-up. I worked with sat internet before it is garbage. So your only options are Cell internet or Wireless PTP. If your a family with heavy users than cell internet is not worth it. So your only option is Wireless PTP well You can go with a Carrier ISP but they tend to give you low speeds. So what I would do is buy a Wireless ubiquity system. (»www.ubnt.com/) (»ubnt.ca/)-is the Canadian Store. Then find a neighbor within 50 KM of your house who actually has cable or dsl service with unlimited bandwidth so no body has issues and everyone is happy. The further out the neighbor is the higher the sat ptp(point to point) antenna needs to be because of the curvature of the earth. Also this system works best on line of sight. Ubiquity is the best in the business when it comes to wireless PTP systems. You get what you pay for with them. If you need more advice just ping me. have a nice day.


technocar2

join:2009-05-29
Brampton, ON
kudos:2

said by king_2014:

Then find a neighbor within 50 KM of your house who actually has cable or dsl service with unlimited bandwidth so no body has issues and everyone is happy.

This would probably be contrary to the terms of service of the ISP in most cases.

Anyway, OP you should have made sure the infrastructure was suitable for your family before you put in the offer. I thought that was one of the things you are supposed to do when you are looking for a house, even more so if it is in the middle of nowhere.

As for your options, if there are no communication wires or fibre in the area then you have to stick with wireless cell internet. I wouldn't go for satellite internet since your family wants heavy technology and internet use.
From the links you posted I would go for the one that offers the highest speed.

king_2014

join:2010-09-15
King City, ON
reply to GenZod

I checked out that approx google location you posted and it is a bit concerning because you are near an airport which means you can get wireless interference. I honestly don't know what to say. I would believe even if you try an wireless PTP isp or go with your own wireless PTP system there may be interference. I would need someone to shine some light if wireless interference is possible from airport?


king_2014

join:2010-09-15
King City, ON
reply to technocar2

Yes and No, vary technical. Why would ISP be concerned? I understand the terms of use. The thing is that who ever could share the connection is not running a wireless signal service to a broad area requesting guests who acquire the signal to pay for it. now that's illegal. I am not recommending that. This system is a private PTP system that no isp is allowed to trace especially if there is a password encryption. It is vary technical.


technocar2

join:2009-05-29
Brampton, ON
kudos:2

said by king_2014:

Yes and No, vary technical.

This is prohibited under rogers acceptable use policy:

"use the Services for anything other than your own personal
purposes (such as reselling the Services, providing Internet
access or any other feature of the Services to any third party)
or share or transfer your Services without our express consent;"

Private PTP system violates that regardless of it being encrypted or not and everything single ISP will have something similar to this policy under their acceptable use. So on that note, I won't recommend this to anyone.

As far as ISP being concerned or being able to detect, well that's very hard to do in the first place. So if the ISP doesn't know then there is no problem. But if they find out, (example: their tech notices the wireless equipment and reports it) then it could mean possible service termination.

aereolis

join:2003-06-12
Brampton, ON

said by technocar2:

said by king_2014:

Yes and No, vary technical.

This is prohibited under rogers acceptable use policy:

"use the Services for anything other than your own personal
purposes (such as reselling the Services, providing Internet
access or any other feature of the Services to any third party)
or share or transfer your Services without our express consent;"

Private PTP system violates that regardless of it being encrypted or not and everything single ISP will have something similar to this policy under their acceptable use. So on that note, I won't recommend this to anyone.

As far as ISP being concerned or being able to detect, well that's very hard to do in the first place. So if the ISP doesn't know then there is no problem. But if they find out, (example: their tech notices the wireless equipment and reports it) then it could mean possible service termination.

You could talk to the "neighbor" 45km away and ask if it's ok to have internet installed in their house under another account to which you'd call the isp and say you'd moved in their basement and book an appointment for their house as basement apartment. It doesn't matter where in the house the cable goes basement main floor or second floor. They'd put in the cable for the internet and have the modem installed in their house for your internet and then go from there.
--
Hello

GenZod

join:2014-06-26

We do have family about 15km away...

Realistically, though... consider the upfront investment and maintenance of a decent private wireless PTP system as well as the cost of supplying some sort of solid wired (cable or DSL) "unlimited" internet service to the "urban" location. Even then, what kind of practical throughput could one achieve to the "rural" side?

Then compare that to Wireless PTP ISPs like MegaWire: offering a 5Mb/1Mb/no monthly cap plan at $79.99/month, and a 10Mb/1Mb/unlimited plan for $149.99. Hrm. Unless the private version was going to provide idiotic speeds to the "rural" homestead -- like 60Mb+ -- it's unlikely to be worth it to roll-our-own.

I'm more interested in the long view. Will cable and/or DSL get there any time soon? Are there planning documents anywhere that might show that? Are there infrastructure resources nearby that could be easily expanded into our area? How greasy would palms have to get to see that happen? Does anyone else in the region have the same questions? Answers?

You know. Stuff like that.


power1x1

join:2014-06-11
canada
reply to GenZod

Why not unlimited internet on wind mobile? Only $35/month though it's cell based...


GenZod

join:2014-06-26

Read the fine print of their Fair Use policy. They'll start throttling users to 256Kb/s download and 128Kb/s upload as soon as they cross the 10GB barrier, and ratchet it down further if you continue going over.



Maxx2006

join:2013-02-02
Cambridge, ON
kudos:2
reply to GenZod

Not sure if this would reach you. »www.silowireless.com/

Mike



nitzguy
Premium
join:2002-07-11
Sudbury, ON
reply to GenZod

said by GenZod:

We do have family about 15km away...

Realistically, though... consider the upfront investment and maintenance of a decent private wireless PTP system as well as the cost of supplying some sort of solid wired (cable or DSL) "unlimited" internet service to the "urban" location. Even then, what kind of practical throughput could one achieve to the "rural" side?

Then compare that to Wireless PTP ISPs like MegaWire: offering a 5Mb/1Mb/no monthly cap plan at $79.99/month, and a 10Mb/1Mb/unlimited plan for $149.99. Hrm. Unless the private version was going to provide idiotic speeds to the "rural" homestead -- like 60Mb+ -- it's unlikely to be worth it to roll-our-own.

I'm more interested in the long view. Will cable and/or DSL get there any time soon? Are there planning documents anywhere that might show that? Are there infrastructure resources nearby that could be easily expanded into our area? How greasy would palms have to get to see that happen? Does anyone else in the region have the same questions? Answers?

You know. Stuff like that.

The Point to Point Wireless system would be a 1 time cost of maybe $200-$300 dollars depending on how much CAT5/6 wiring you need to go from the antenna back down to the device you're going to connect to.

The UBNT equipment that the OP talks about does work. Even on Non-LOS situations. Here is what I would recommend to the OP...

Setup the system to your "people" who are 15km away...again if you have a little technical knowhow and aren't afraid to mount equipment outside it shouldn't be a problem...aka if you can point a satellite dish it shouldn't be that big of an issue.

Set it up and see if it works...if you're spending $300k+ as I can only guess at house prices in Southern Ontario, what is $300 to see if it works...if it doesn't, you can always sell it as there is a big market for this equipment.

a one -time cost is much better than ongoing slow wireless capabilities on an ongoing basis. Also for those who think they're violating the AUP, keep it on the Down-low, because technically it acts as a wireless bridge, which would be no Different than if you ran a really long network cable. It would be within your internal network, so I don't see how they can say you're "reselling" the services....its simply another connection on your LAN....so that's what I say to those who are claiming "AUP violation", its on the OPs internal network...so its good AFAIK....Rogers/Bell/etc don't need to know whats going on with your internal network.

Anywho, just my thoughts on the matter....its not that difficult to set it up....its more the physical installation that's a PITA, but there are LEDs on the device itself so once you do the web based setup, you can take it out and see if it'll work....I'll need to check sometime to see how far I can actually go, right now mine extends out about 300m.

yyzlhr

join:2012-09-03
Scarborough, ON
kudos:4
reply to GenZod

If you're willing to foot the construction costs Rogers might entertain the idea of bringing service to you. Costs will most certainly be steep but might be worth it in the long run if you plan on making this your "forever home" especially when everyone in your family is tech savvy.


GenZod

join:2014-06-26
reply to nitzguy

Ubquiti has a really handy Outdoor Wireless Link Calculator ( »www.ubnt.com/airlink/ ) that works with Google Earth for making signal calcuations for their AirLink devices.

So I played with it. Unfortunately it looks like that link would require some fairly gargantuan antenna heights to overcome terrain issues between the two points I had in mind, despite them being only 11km as-the-crow-flies. Pity, because as you pointed out, some of their long-range products aren't abhorrently expensive.


GenZod

join:2014-06-26
reply to yyzlhr

That's part of why I'm asking questions about the current state of the Rogers infrastructure in the vicinity: would paying Rogers to bring cable to us be worth it right now (unlikely) or in the near future? I've seen comments in other threads where people have been quoted $10000-$20000 per KM of expansion. YEOW!



JCohen
Premium
join:2010-10-19
Nepean, ON
kudos:11
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
·TekSavvy Cable
·Rogers Hi-Speed

Take a drive by »www.google.com/maps/@43.466481,-···e1?hl=en and see if they have added in a 7330 as the street view hasn't been updated since 2011

A 7330 is a field SLAM which is used to provide DSL.

You can identify the 7330 by looking for a beige cabinet near the OPI and access node as seen in the street view.




--
Opinions expressed are my own, and may or may not reflect those of my employers or any other BCE company or division.

technocar2

join:2009-05-29
Brampton, ON
kudos:2
reply to nitzguy

So are you saying it doesn't violate AUP?


king_2014

join:2010-09-15
King City, ON
reply to GenZod

Call up rogers small business. Tell them your a small business owner and make up a name. Go on contract with them and they will cover up to $30,000.00. worth of work to bring in services to you. I have done this before with a friend of mine and rogers said no problem but that was the small business department. The rogers residential department people would not be able to help you only small business. Give them a call @: 1 888 873-1488.



AppleGuy
Premium
join:2013-09-08
Canada
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·Rogers Hi-Speed
·voip.ms
reply to GenZod

Yeah, but you are in the middle of nowhere. And with you being close to the airport, not likely a lot of homes to be built out that way. You are pretty close to Hespeler, just not close enough. You're almost exactly centre of Guelph/Cambridge/Kitchener, so likely it will be that last spot in Waterloo/Wellington to get built up, though with the new highway 7 being built, things might speed up.

Sorry about your luck. We need internet so I'd never move to a place that is so far from everything.


yyzlhr

join:2012-09-03
Scarborough, ON
kudos:4
reply to king_2014

said by king_2014:

Call up rogers small business. Tell them your a small business owner and make up a name. Go on contract with them and they will cover up to $30,000.00. worth of work to bring in services to you. I have done this before with a friend of mine and rogers said no problem but that was the small business department. The rogers residential department people would not be able to help you only small business. Give them a call @: 1 888 873-1488.

Unless you're signing up for carrier grade service from Rogers Business Services, which is an entirely separate business unit, that's unlikely to happen.


nitzguy
Premium
join:2002-07-11
Sudbury, ON
reply to technocar2

said by technocar2:

So are you saying it doesn't violate AUP?

I'm saying how can it?....the connections in question act simply as part of your LAN, with my connections on that segment of the LAN, they have IP addresses in the same subnet as mine....my Ubiquiti Nanostation m5's have an IP of 192.168.1.27 on one side and 192.168.1.28 on the other side so that I can access the web admin for each device, but again, it all acts as part of my LAN, so I don't know how it can violate an AUP.

Its unfortunate to the OP that LOS isn't going to work due to terrain levels, the equipment is quite good and they do work quite well even without line of sight directly and even through walls (at one point on the other end I had the device mounted inside and it was still able to get good signal strength, in the 300mbit/sec range between the 2 points, I have an old WRT54Gv3 that has its own access point because I only have 6mbit DSL out there so it works ok for my parents when they want to be in the "shed" and still have wireless access). (its more like a really big fancy garage than a shed).

EDIT: To the OP, I'd say that you're in some bad luck situation, unless you're going to end up being in a subdivision their "ROI" for your cable connection is that they'd never get what they'd have to install out of your $100/month services....its probably 20k or so....

I remember working with the 'Blue Cable Network' and we had a request for an installation, it was pulling the equipment simply 500m down the street in question and the quote was $6k.....he was some well to do financial guy, so he did it.

So, unless you're financially well to do, I'd say good luck .

technocar2

join:2009-05-29
Brampton, ON
kudos:2

said by nitzguy:

so I don't know how it can violate an AUP.

It violates AUP because of the end result. If the end result is such that you end up sharing with or reselling to a third party then it violates AUP. The violation is based on the end result not how the end result is achieved. So it does not matter if the connection is on your LAN.

cepnot4me

join:2013-10-29
L0C 1K0
kudos:3
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL

This is the truth. However. Unless your using as much bandwidth as an entire city block, Rogers or Bell will never bother you.
People that include Internet or cable when they rent a room or basement apartment breach this all the time. They get left alone about it unless they start making waves over something.

It's like driving too slowly, yes it's illegal, but rarely is anyone pulled over and charged for it.


GenZod

join:2014-06-26
reply to JCohen

Click for full size
said by JCohen:

Take a drive by »www.google.com/maps/@43.466481,-···e1?hl=en and see if they have added in a 7330 as the street view hasn't been updated since 2011

Unfortunately (for us) it looks about the same today as it did in the 2011 Street View.

Good thought, though.


nitzguy
Premium
join:2002-07-11
Sudbury, ON
reply to technocar2

said by technocar2:

said by nitzguy:

so I don't know how it can violate an AUP.

It violates AUP because of the end result. If the end result is such that you end up sharing with or reselling to a third party then it violates AUP. The violation is based on the end result not how the end result is achieved. So it does not matter if the connection is on your LAN.

So, to extend your logic, when your friend comes over with their iPad or hop onto your network with your iPhone or Android or other device, you're in violation of the AUP.

So remember, never let your friends devices on your network because they are a third-party and are violating the AUP. This also extends to your uncle and aunt as well, your cousins, if you want to read directly into it...anyone but you....maybe you need to order 2 more connections for your significant other and your 1 child?...and another connection for each child.

Does that make sense?

cepnot4me

join:2013-10-29
L0C 1K0
kudos:3
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL

You can provide service to direct relation or common law people. If your friend is jumping on to use it, it's sort of falls into the common law or direct relation category.

Reselling. (Charging someone any amount for use of your connection) is the violation.

If you open a back yard speakeasy and sell moonshine but provide free wifi to your customers, that is a violation.

If you want to read directly into it, Google the legal disclaimer. It's more exact.