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Ziptie
join:2014-06-28
Canada

Ziptie

Member

[Mobile] Getting a device certified by Bell

I recently bought a mobile DVR and cameras for my truck. It is a Chinese unit, but I am in the security business and have no complaints about the products from this company.

I purchased a data only SIM card from Bell, inserted it into the SIM slot on the MDVR and set the APN to inet.bell.ca, as instructed to by a Bell representative.

I downloaded the CMS software and entered the appropriate info.

I went to see if my cameras could be seen over the net, specifically on the CMS website, and there was... NADA

I contacted the MDVR manufacturer and we tried various things, but nothing worked. We discovered that the problem was that China is still uses dial-up for internet access and we here in Canada use FDD-LTE/4G.

The manufacturer was awesome. They went to a lot of trouble to build me a device with the LTE module in it, tested it in Hong Kong where it worked, and sent it to me free of charge. I love these guys!

So, with great hopes and high expectations I set it up and was ready to see the cams on the CMS site... Or so I thought...

I contacted Bell tech support. I told them about my connectivity issue and they suggested various things, like is my antenna screwed in, is it plugged in....

I was getting kind of peeved... this had taken over two months and I still had no connection.

I called Bell tech support back the other night, and explained the problem to the guy. It was going rather well, that is until I told him what the device was, a Chinese mobile DVR. He said right then and there that the device will NEVER connect because it isn't "certified" by Bell. I asked him if he was sure and he was emphatic that it wold NEVER connect... I was stunned. I asked him how one gets a device certified by Bell and he said he had no idea but it ain't connecting without it.

Freeking frustrating or what!

So, by now my question should be obvious... How does one get a device certified by Bell?

This also raises a bunch of other questions, like, is there any other cellular data service provider in North America that I could connect through? How come it works virtually everywhere else in the world? Is it because they are still using 2 and 3G systems?

I really want this to work. I would like to integrate this with Bells Fleet Management Solution for real time tracking, and all of the other benefits.

Thanks eh, Jon
demonte21
join:2009-02-20
Mirabel, QC

demonte21

Member

Did you try pda.bell.ca for the APN ? Never heard of inet.bell.ca
ainyul
join:2009-10-19
Mont-Royal, QC

ainyul

Member

another option is to try and narrow down the problem. try on another carrier to make sure that technically the product is compatible, and if so then you know its the config and not the camera....
Ziptie
join:2014-06-28
Canada

Ziptie to demonte21

Member

to demonte21
said by demonte21:

Did you try pda.bell.ca

Nope, but I will right now!
Ziptie

Ziptie

Member

said by ainyul:

another option is to try and narrow down the problem. try on another carrier to make sure that technically the product is compatible, and if so then you know its the config and not the camera....

Yes, this has been suggested. It's not possible right now since it's a holiday weekend and all, but it will be tried as soon as I can. Someone else suggested Rogers because they still support 2G. Is this true?

And, to demonte21, pda.bell.ca didn't work either. Thanks for the suggestion though
ainyul
join:2009-10-19
Mont-Royal, QC

ainyul

Member

LTE technically is 4G; but yes, BELL and TELUS do not support 2G.

is your sim card 4G compatible? sim card should say LTE...
Ziptie
join:2014-06-28
Canada

Ziptie

Member

said by ainyul:

is your sim card 4G compatible? sim card should say LTE

Yes sir, on both counts.
ainyul
join:2009-10-19
Mont-Royal, QC

ainyul

Member

well, it seems you have already done most of the troubleshooting possible.

1)verified and modified APN
2) compatible sim card
3) compatible data plan

next step try 2G network and non BELL 3G (hspa) or 4G (LTE)

The LTE bands in country of origin of device same as LTE bands being used here?
Ziptie
join:2014-06-28
Canada

2 edits

Ziptie

Member

said by ainyul:

The LTE bands in country of origin of device same as LTE bands being used here?

That was part of the problem. China doesn't have an LTE system, they are still strictly dial-up. They did test it in Hong Kong where they have all the the LTE bands, and it worked for them there.

I will be trying the other options starting on Wednesday.
ainyul
join:2009-10-19
Mont-Royal, QC

ainyul

Member

last bit; Hong Kong LTE bands are not the same as here; check if your device is quad band GSM compatible, then you can go for the 2G option via Rogers...
Ziptie
join:2014-06-28
Canada

Ziptie

Member

That is interesting. I'll be passing that bit of info along to the manufacturer.

I'm still wondering if the unit will need to be certified though.

JC_
Premium Member
join:2010-10-19
Nepean, ON

JC_ to Ziptie

Premium Member

to Ziptie
Bell LTE Frequencies;
700 MHz Band 12, 17
1700 MHz Band 4
2600 MHz Band 7

China & Hong Kong LTE Frequencies;
1800 MHz Band 3
2300 MHz Band 40
2600 MHz Band 7, 41

Source: »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li ··· networks

DKS
Damn Kidney Stones

join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON

DKS to Ziptie

to Ziptie
said by Ziptie:

I'm still wondering if the unit will need to be certified though.

It would need to be certified by Industry Canada. Not certified? Illegal to operate it in Canada. That might be what Bell was talking about.

solvietunion
@70.30.145.x

solvietunion

Anon

hi there, um im pretty sure the mfgr of the dvr didn't make the LTE module, you can buy those any where, even hydro and alarm sistems uses lte modules, they buy them from a VENDOR and slap them inside their device. the vendor who makes the lte modules needs to be certified from industy Canada gov.
ainyul
join:2009-10-19
Mont-Royal, QC

ainyul to JC_

Member

to JC_
^added to this not all areas have the same LTE frequency; for example ROGERS has more 2600 in TO as opposed to in MTL...; hence safest bet is quad band GSM methinks...
ainyul

ainyul to DKS

Member

to DKS
i dont think the te
said by DKS:

said by Ziptie:

I'm still wondering if the unit will need to be certified though.

It would need to be certified by Industry Canada. Not certified? Illegal to operate it in Canada. That might be what Bell was talking about.

i dont trhink he was referring to CSA etc certification, but just saying that its not on the BELL-approved list of equipment; which is what they have been trained on and trained to trouble shoot on...

BACONATOR26
Premium Member
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON

BACONATOR26 to Ziptie

Premium Member

to Ziptie
said by Ziptie:

said by ainyul:

The LTE bands in country of origin of device same as LTE bands being used here?

They did test it in Hong Kong .... and it worked for them there.

Bingo. Unfortunately they do not have cell networks with every compatible LTE band, only certain ones like we do. The only companies that would, would be cellular equipment manufacturers with R&D labs and I doubt that they do.

If it works there I'm always 100% certain they gave you an LTE module with incompatible bands. I don't know of any manufacturer who builds an LTE modem with all of the different compatible bands as there are different chipsets with support for different types. Get them to give you one with 1700 or 2600 MHz LTE support and it will work.

Certification is only required for official carrier support and since you bought a product that Bell does not have any agreements with you are on your own but barring any odd issues it should be fine.
ainyul
join:2009-10-19
Mont-Royal, QC

ainyul

Member

said by BACONATOR26:

said by Ziptie:

said by ainyul:

The LTE bands in country of origin of device same as LTE bands being used here?

They did test it in Hong Kong where they have all the the LTE bands, and it worked for them there.

Bingo. If it works there I'm always 100% certain they gave you an LTE module with incompatible bands. I don't know of any manufacturer who builds an LTE modem with all of the different compatible bands as there are different chipsets with support for different types. Get them to give you one with 1700 or 2600 MHz LTE support and it will work.

Certification is only required for official carrier support and since you bought a product that Bell does not have any agreements with you are on your own but barring any odd issues it should be fine.

exactly!!
Ziptie
join:2014-06-28
Canada

Ziptie to BACONATOR26

Member

to BACONATOR26
said by BACONATOR26:

Bingo. Unfortunately they do not have cell networks with every compatible LTE band, only certain ones like we do. The only companies that would, would be cellular equipment manufacturers with R&D labs and I doubt that they do.

If it works there I'm always 100% certain they gave you an LTE module with incompatible bands. I don't know of any manufacturer who builds an LTE modem with all of the different compatible bands as there are different chipsets with support for different types. Get them to give you one with 1700 or 2600 MHz LTE support and it will work.

Certification is only required for official carrier support and since you bought a product that Bell does not have any agreements with you are on your own but barring any odd issues it should be fine.

Now this is encouraging information! Thanks!

I sent them a link to this thread and am hoping that they can learn what they need to in order to assemble the proper bits and pieces so that it works here.

DKS
Damn Kidney Stones

join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON

DKS to BACONATOR26

to BACONATOR26
said by BACONATOR26:

Certification is only required for official carrier support and since you bought a product that Bell does not have any agreements with you are on your own but barring any odd issues it should be fine.

CSA and Industry Canada certification is also required for any electrical or radio equipment.
ainyul
join:2009-10-19
Mont-Royal, QC

1 edit

ainyul

Member

said by DKS:

said by BACONATOR26:

Certification is only required for official carrier support and since you bought a product that Bell does not have any agreements with you are on your own but barring any odd issues it should be fine.

CSA and Industry Canada certification is also required for any electrical or radio equipment.

agreed but not all equipment used here is CSA or IC certified...

having said that for it to be sold via official channels it needs to be legal ie CSA or IC...

DKS
Damn Kidney Stones

join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON

DKS

said by ainyul:

said by DKS:

said by BACONATOR26:

Certification is only required for official carrier support and since you bought a product that Bell does not have any agreements with you are on your own but barring any odd issues it should be fine.

CSA and Industry Canada certification is also required for any electrical or radio equipment.

agreed but not all equipment used here is CSA or IC certified...

having said that for it to be sold via official channels it needs to be legal ie CSA or IC...

But it has to be.. There are exemptions.

BACONATOR26
Premium Member
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON

BACONATOR26 to DKS

Premium Member

to DKS
said by DKS:

said by BACONATOR26:

Certification is only required for official carrier support and since you bought a product that Bell does not have any agreements with you are on your own but barring any odd issues it should be fine.

CSA and Industry Canada certification is also required for any electrical or radio equipment.

That's a separate issue from compatibility with the carrier which is what we are discussing here.

DKS
Damn Kidney Stones

join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON

DKS

said by BACONATOR26:

said by DKS:

said by BACONATOR26:

Certification is only required for official carrier support and since you bought a product that Bell does not have any agreements with you are on your own but barring any odd issues it should be fine.

CSA and Industry Canada certification is also required for any electrical or radio equipment.

That's a separate issue from compatibility with the carrier which is what we are discussing here.

Perhaps, but is it not related? Which was my original question.
ainyul
join:2009-10-19
Mont-Royal, QC

ainyul

Member

agreed; not related in my opinion...
Ziptie
join:2014-06-28
Canada

Ziptie

Member

As it stands right now, there appears to be two separate trains of thought here.

The issue I originally was concerned with was, does this unit have to be "certified" by Bell, as was told to me by one of their tech support people?

The other issue is the bands that the unit can/will work on. I have forwarded this thread, as mentioned before, to the manufacturer. They've been great so far, so I hope that this will help them understand how to make this work.

JC_
Premium Member
join:2010-10-19
Nepean, ON

JC_

Premium Member

said by Ziptie:

The issue I originally was concerned with was, does this unit have to be "certified" by Bell, as was told to me by one of their tech support people?

Why should it? All it's using is mobile data.

Think of it as putting a SIM card in a phone that Bell doesn't sell, that device was likely never certified by Bell.
Ziptie
join:2014-06-28
Canada

Ziptie

Member

said by JC_:

Why should it? All it's using is mobile data.

Think of it as putting a SIM card in a phone that Bell doesn't sell, that device was likely never certified by Bell.

Well, this has been my contention all along. If a guy can arrive here from Africa and get his cell phone to work by the Bell agent, then what is the reason that this unit won't connect? When the Bell tech support guy told me that unless it is certified by Bell that it will never work... Well, that kind of floored me frankly.

JC_
Premium Member
join:2010-10-19
Nepean, ON

JC_

Premium Member

said by Ziptie:

then what is the reason that this unit won't connect?

The LTE chipset you have will likely never work with any Canadian carrier as it's not able to connect to the frequencies that they're broadcasting on.

Current Bell Frequencies
3G
HSDPA 850/1900
HSPA+ 850/1900
UMTS 850/1900
WCDMA 850/1900
1x EV-DO CDMA2000 (Will shut down July 1, 2015)

4G (LTE is not available everywhere)
LTE 700 (Band 12, 17) *Not deployed yet in a lot of places
LTE 1700 (Band 4)
LTE 2600 (Band 7)
ainyul
join:2009-10-19
Mont-Royal, QC

1 edit

ainyul to Ziptie

Member

to Ziptie
said by Ziptie:

said by JC_:

Why should it? All it's using is mobile data.

Think of it as putting a SIM card in a phone that Bell doesn't sell, that device was likely never certified by Bell.

Well, this has been my contention all along. If a guy can arrive here from Africa and get his cell phone to work by the Bell agent, then what is the reason that this unit won't connect? When the Bell tech support guy told me that unless it is certified by Bell that it will never work... Well, that kind of floored me frankly.

forget the word certified and replace it with compatible; phone needs to be compatible..; in the same sense device in question camera needs to be compatible,