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HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
Reviews:
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Rogers packetloss

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another day
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today
I've been fighting with Rogers (Business 60/10 package) over the past few weeks about intermittent, but bad packetloss that pretty much cripples the connection... They've sent a tech (contract, intek) that replaced the line from the pole directly to the modem, even though the line wasn't old, approx 5 years old. The signals didnt change, and the packetloss returned shortly afterwards...

Before sending the tech, the CSR on the phone noticed packetloss not only on my modem but on others on the street. They sent a repair order to the people responsible, but they didnt find anything, and didn't fix anything... Fast forward another week to today, I call again and again they notice packetloss on the entire street... So again they submit a repair order or whatever...

What are the chances they dismiss it again, because they will check it when it's not happening... It's a random occurrance, usually lasting for 1-4 hours, but sometimes there will be a day or two between packetloss. It happens at random hours of the day, there's nothing systemic or predictable about it...

I wonder how many more times i need to get this documented before i can cancel out of the contract (~1 year into 3 years) and move to VDSL...
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ablatt

join:2001-08-03
Toronto, ON

1 edit
I'm experiencing the exact same thing right now at home in the Spadina/Eglinton area of Toronto on an Extreme Plus account.

Packet loss will intermittently be 5% to 10% and if really bad, highter than that. On Monday, Canada Day, it was bad often during the day. Some days it will go for hours with 0 packet loss, and then start having problems again.

I also get "Started Unicast Maintenance Ranging - No Response received - T3 time-out" in the Docsis log on my Cisco DPC3825 modem.

I called twice and was told both times it was area-wide.

On the third call they said they wanted to send a tech and I refused.

I had similar problems and went through that dance for 6 months at my office in Thornhill until it got magically fixed one day. They also replaced everything and basically told me as long as I had a connection that everything was OK. I didn't quit because Bell didn't offer much in my area.

I'm not 100% sure, but if the problem is congestion or a major hardware issue up-the-line somewhere, and the problem is only intermittent, they could drag it on for months.

It's actually a disgusting approach to customer service and probably one of the reasons Rogers is losing customers. It would be like your power going off intermittently, and Hydro telling you everything was OK.

imtiax
Premium
join:2014-05-24
East York, ON
reply to HiVolt
I live in downtown Toronto and I am experiencing the same issue.

ablatt

join:2001-08-03
Toronto, ON
reply to HiVolt
The other problem is that we know about it, but most people don't.

If you were to ask your neighbour on Rogers, they would say everything was OK.

Rogers knows that.


HiVolt
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Toronto, ON
kudos:21
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reply to imtiax
said by imtiax:

I live in downtown Toronto and I am experiencing the same issue.

My work is close enough to downtown (Leslieville).

It's definitely not congestion, because it happens at various times of day including in the overnight hours.

Well its not encouraging that its happening on an even grander scale and Rogers is ignoring it...
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HiVolt
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Looks like it cleared up about an hour ago... will see how long before the next episode.
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Expand your moderator at work


Breadwinka

join:2008-06-08
Kitchener, ON
reply to HiVolt

Re: Rogers packetloss

ive had the same exact issue in Kitchener, huge packetloss mine has been happening more around 10-11pm at night though.


SammyIan22

@99.244.129.x
Its most likely caused by noise on the upstream frequencies Rogers uses. Rogers mainly uses 23,30,38mhz on the upstream the one that causes majority of the issue on the internet is the 23mhz. When you have this issue call into Rogers and ask them to run thier tools. Ask specifically for the Upstream SNR (Signal to Noise Ratio) if its anything in 30 or less than its noise. Have them send a ticket to their engineers to investigate. noise comes and goes so its very hard to track it and fix it unless they are able to see it live when its happening. This is normally caused by someone thats connected to the same hfc node as you having a rouge modem thats sending noise back into the field or someones house the wires there are causing the issue. hopefully that helps

ablatt

join:2001-08-03
Toronto, ON
reply to HiVolt
I saw T3 timeouts in my docsis log from early this morning around 1:45 a.m. so I believe the problem is not rectified.

This is an interesting read

»communityforums.rogers.com/t5/fo···9/page/4

cepnot4me

join:2013-10-29
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reply to HiVolt
You've proven it's a problem. The trick now is finding the cause.
Usually it's noise. And usually the noise is coming from 1 customer on the node.
So it's a big game of hide and seek. Find the customer, find the cause of it in their home.
That's why it takes so long.


HiVolt
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join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
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reply to ablatt
said by ablatt:

I saw T3 timeouts in my docsis log from early this morning around 1:45 a.m. so I believe the problem is not rectified.

This is an interesting read

»communityforums.rogers.com/t5/fo···9/page/4

In my case I don't lose signal, the modem doesn't disconnect and during the packetloss the stats in the modem look normal (Power, SNR)
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ablatt

join:2001-08-03
Toronto, ON
reply to HiVolt
Same here. Signal looks fine and no disconnections - but sometimes a hickup. A streaming video might stop or a remote connection time out.

Do you get the Ranging T3 timeout errors in your modem's log?

It's hard for me to believe it's a noise issue when it's so intermittent and when the signals on the modem look good. But I know there's more knowledgeable people on this forum than me when it comes to these things.

When I had problems at the office my signals were all over the map - upstream power would climb as high as 20. But at home it's pretty consistent even during packet loss.


HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
Nope. nothing in the logs during the packetloss... I suppose whatever noise or interference that's causing it is not nearly strong enough to kill the signal, just degrade it bad enough to show up as nasty packetloss.
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ablatt

join:2001-08-03
Toronto, ON

1 edit
reply to HiVolt
Some packet loss just before 11:00 a.m. today.

Almost 10% packet loss at 11:11 a.m. today.

Interested to know if that coincides with any you saw at that time HiVolt.


HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
Nope nothing so far today...
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ablatt

join:2001-08-03
Toronto, ON
reply to HiVolt
OK, well our problems are not synchronized. I am experiencing 16% packet loss for the last 15 minutes. Verified by a Rogers tech. on the phone.


HiVolt
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Toronto, ON
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No, definitely separate... I had some less severe packetloss in the evening yesterday, and i just looked at the graph logs and there was a small blip early morning today around 6:30am where the modem actually did lose signal. Could have been unrelated, but it came back quickly and there was no packetloss afterwards.

I once again set up a laptop connected directly to another port of the DPC3825 on a direct IP, and I'm going to be running a constant ping graph for the next few days, so I will have something to show to Rogers should they require any more proof.

I hope it will be OK for the next few hours as I want to watch the World Cup Germany vs. France match without having to switch to the much slower DSL backup link.
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ablatt

join:2001-08-03
Toronto, ON

3 edits
reply to HiVolt
80% packet loss (confirmed with Rogers tech.) for the last 5 minutes. Can hardly write this response.


HiVolt
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Toronto, ON
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said by ablatt:

80% packet loss (confirmed with Rogers tech.) for the last 5 minutes. Can hardly write this response.

Yeah it was very bad for me yesterday as well, i had a hard time replying or attaching anything
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ablatt

join:2001-08-03
Toronto, ON
reply to HiVolt
Perhaps someone here can help me understand, but isn't this a fundamental difference between Cable and DSL?

With cable your port on a tap is subject to signal issues from other ports or the tap itself.

With DSL you are still subject to DSLAM issues, but since you plug directly in, and not through a tap per say, your are not affected by signal issues from other ports?

ablatt

join:2001-08-03
Toronto, ON
reply to cepnot4me
Doesn't the technology exist to have managed nodes/taps that allow for individual isolated port diagnostics?


dillyhammer
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Scarborough, ON
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reply to HiVolt
said by HiVolt:

I wonder how many more times i need to get this documented before i can cancel out of the contract (~1 year into 3 years) and move to VDSL...

You know they're not going to let you out of the contract just for the asking. Unless there's an SLA that they're in breach of, I suspect they'll fight you tooth and nail and come after you if you try.

Is there any way you can reduce the service down to the bare minimum and call that your backup, and just move your main connection to vDSL?

Your issue looks painfully familiar. That's exactly the shit I put up with intermittently for 6 weeks before they discovered the problem 3 floors below me.

Mike
--
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HiVolt
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More fun overnight tonight...
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dillyhammer
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Man oh man. I'd be screaming blue bloody murder if that was my business connection.

If that's been going on for weeks then it requires escalation to management.

That's ridiculous.

Mike
--
I've picked on Cogeco long enough. Who's next? Any volunteers?


GI Suck
I Got Mail Yay

join:2004-01-14
Oshawa, ON
reply to HiVolt
If I were you, I would drop Rogers Business and go with Cogeco Data Services, drop a fibre line into your business. At least when it comes to support, you have direct access to the NOC and get solid answers right away.

cepnot4me

join:2013-10-29
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It isn't a matter of getting answers or not, it's not a matter of speaking to a more knowledgeable rep.

In my experience, intermittent packet loss is 90% something affecting the node. (Assuming equipment has been swapped, inside wiring and drop are ok.)
The best Rogers can say is "Yes, we see your packet loss".

When the ticket gets submitted it will go to the group who will confirm the problem exists at the node.
Congestion?
Noise?
Equipment?

It's one of those three things.

Noise could be another customer, could be a bad hard cable connector.
Tracking and isolating the issue over hundreds of kilometers of cable, thousands of customers that may be the cause but only at specific times or Random times if their usage doesn't follow a pattern.

Unfortunately there is no quick ETA on fixing this.

It's a pain staking process , it could be 50' from the customer or 5 km..


dillyhammer
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said by cepnot4me:

It isn't a matter of getting answers or not, it's not a matter of speaking to a more knowledgeable rep.

In my experience, intermittent packet loss is 90% something affecting the node. (Assuming equipment has been swapped, inside wiring and drop are ok.)
The best Rogers can say is "Yes, we see your packet loss".

When the ticket gets submitted it will go to the group who will confirm the problem exists at the node.
Congestion?
Noise?
Equipment?

It's one of those three things.

Noise could be another customer, could be a bad hard cable connector.
Tracking and isolating the issue over hundreds of kilometers of cable, thousands of customers that may be the cause but only at specific times or Random times if their usage doesn't follow a pattern.

Unfortunately there is no quick ETA on fixing this.

It's a pain staking process , it could be 50' from the customer or 5 km..

This all goes to illustrate just exactly how fragile - and hence unreliable - Rogers' network truly is, particularly when it comes to something mission critical.

I've seen first hand how elusive problems like this can be, and the problem is certainly compounded by Rogers' history of unwillingness to be forthright on network conditions.

I can't imagine how Rogers could possibly offer a decent SLA with a straight face when someone's puppy chewing through a cable 3 blocks over can disrupt an entire enterprise network. Rogers may be able to advertise the "fastest", but it certainly is less reliable.

Mike
--
I've picked on Cogeco long enough. Who's next? Any volunteers?


HiVolt
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Can't they install some kind of filters at each customer entry point to filter any kind of noise coming from customer premises or equipment?

What drives me nuts about my particular issue, is that it's completely random, completely unpredictable, and can go for days without issue, then strike with a vengeance for 4-5 hours sometimes twice in a day.

It's been fairly quiet since that nasty bout on Saturday morning... The larger ping spike is automatic off site backup, upload saturates the line so the latency jumps for a bit. Thats why its scheduled at night.
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cepnot4me

join:2013-10-29
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If the noise is tracked to one customer, a noise filter is installed to keep their noise in their own home.
However a noise filter blocks all return noise. So it shuts down Internet and 2way capability of tv.
A letter is left on the door advising the customer to call to book for a tech to repair. (If they aren't home for us to go in sane day instead of adding the noise filter) .

The problem is one customer can create the noise. There is a lot of customers on a node. They get checked one by one to see who is putting put the noise.

How many customers per node? 100-1000.
To check them we have to drive to each tap. A Tap is every 3 houses.

Apartments are faster since you cut put the travel time going tap to tap.

Dillyhammer.

Rogers can't be forthcoming about problems they aren't aware of.

We don't know if noise is affecting f a node till someone calls in and we look at the node their on.

I'd like to see something automated that constantly checks (every 30 minutes).
However think of it like this.

A connector, splitter, cable, amp etc from the source will cause noise.

Sometimes the noise isn't one person, it's 30 people who collectively cause it.

This is why people shouldn't do their own cable.