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moose_338

join:2013-11-30
Waubaushene, ON

1000M = 60 grand......Plus update to my problems with rogers.

No, I'm not shitting you.

I have been in discussion with Rogers for a little while now trying to get service brought to my residence (about 600m from last tap on my road) I have now been told that the existing cable line is not suitable for extension and that they would have to install and new line on the road for the cost of sixty grand for the thousand meters it would have to come to reach me. And that they would need 40 out of that 60 grand from me to make it happen.

Are They screwing with me or are the cost of the coaxial cable they string on the polls really that expensive?

I had thought that Rogers had a cable running past my house in my first thread. But I have been told that it is a Rogers Business Solution fiber line and that the cost of a subscription is 500 bucks a month to start. Is this true? And what would be involved in getting said service?

So any ideas/info or am I screwed with getting some better internet?
Why is it these telco company's can make million upon millions and not put any of it back into the infrastructure?

yyzlhr

join:2012-09-03
Scarborough, ON
kudos:4
Rogers business services is a division of Rogers that provides carrier grade services like backhaul for cell towers or internet connectivity for very large enterprises. $500 per month is likely on the low end for an RBS subscription.

The costs are not just for the coax cable. They might have to extend the fibre a bit closer to your neighbourhood and paying for the construction crew and permits is not cheap either. If the costs were reasonable, Rogers probably would already be servicing your neighbourhood.

moose_338

join:2013-11-30
Waubaushene, ON
said by yyzlhr:

Rogers business services is a division of Rogers that provides carrier grade services like backhaul for cell towers or internet connectivity for very large enterprises. $500 per month is likely on the low end for an RBS subscription.

WTH? why is that on a dirt back road in the middle of nowhere then? There's nothing even remotely close to needing that on my road.

yyzlhr

join:2012-09-03
Scarborough, ON
kudos:4
said by moose_338:

said by yyzlhr:

Rogers business services is a division of Rogers that provides carrier grade services like backhaul for cell towers or internet connectivity for very large enterprises. $500 per month is likely on the low end for an RBS subscription.

WTH? why is that on a dirt back road in the middle of nowhere then? There's nothing even remotely close to needing that on my road.

Could be for cell tower backhaul, could be feeding something that's not anywhere near your road but the fibre simply passes through your street, or it could be dark fibre that's currently unused and has been laid for potential future use.

Sunfox

join:2003-12-14
Markham, ON
reply to moose_338
Have you looked into long-range wireless from a neighbor who can receive standard Rogers service?

cepnot4me

join:2013-10-29
L0C 1K0
kudos:4
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to moose_338
60 grand covers the distribution run, the line extender, the taps, additional hydro poles. Then the labor to do it, permits,, then the cable run to your house. Even if they are only running it to your house the proper install covers a Tap every 300' or so. They have to build the plant to cover every lot along the way even if there isn't a house on it.
Yyzlhr is right, there are line of sight ISPs that have towers everywhere in the rurals. A lot of these are connected to Rogers fiber. (They pay 10K a month or more to provide their point to point high speed to their customers. ) these towers are usually in the middle of nowhere where these ISPS customers are.

moose_338

join:2013-11-30
Waubaushene, ON

1 edit
said by cepnot4me:

, there are line of sight ISPs that have towers everywhere in the rurals. A lot of these are connected to Rogers fiber. (They pay 10K a month or more to provide their point to point high speed to their customers. ) these towers are usually in the middle of nowhere where these ISPS customers are.

Cool, anyone know of any good ones in the area of Waubashene? lol
I know there isn't one on my road, how far does this line of sight tech work?

I'm getting really tired of slow internet and am willing to try this line of sight thing. I've just got to wait out bells upgrades, been told 6 mouths or so and I should be seeing fiber to the node roll out for me.

Also I think I mentioned it before but it's not like I'm the only one on the road that wants it, I called in initially and talked to a Rogers sales rep who after looking into my problem of not getting service, even he went as far as to list off almost every house number after mine as having called in to order Rogers service. They would be picking up more then just me as a customer. But everyone I spoke to just ignored that fact.


TOPDAWG
Premium
join:2005-04-27
Calgary, AB
kudos:3
well the issue is getting serve to those houses may not be cheap and is simply not worth what rogers would get in return for the cost.

hosedagain3

join:2008-02-18
Sharon, ON
My neighbour is looking to get Rogers cable for TV and Internet. They are on a dish for TV and use Explornet, I think thats what its called, satellite for internet. I believe no internet from Bell as their service is not available. The neighbour put in a plastic pipe from the road to the house for lights, so all that is needed is to feed the cable from the road to the house through the plastic pipe, about 350 feet. Rogers wants $4000, are you kidding me? got to be more to this for Rogers to ask for so much $$$$. No need to run a new line at the road as it is already there. I have Rogers TV and internet as well as all the neighbours I know have the same.
WTH. Didn't cost me anything when I hooked up 15 years ago. Just a small hook up fee if I remember rightly.


JCohen
Premium
join:2010-10-19
Nepean, ON
kudos:12
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
·TekSavvy Cable
·Rogers Hi-Speed
said by hosedagain3:

The neighbour put in a plastic pipe from the road to the house for lights, so all that is needed is to feed the cable from the road to the house through the plastic pipe, about 350 feet. Rogers wants $4000, are you kidding me? got to be more to this for Rogers to ask for so much $$$$.

Tell your friend to go buy the length of RG6 coax that is needed to get to the road and have it pulled from through the conduit, than call Rogers and order the service. That should eliminate the $4000 charge, other than that I'm not entirely sure what would be included in that charge.

Maybe one of the Rogers techs can give some better insight on this
--
Opinions expressed are my own, and may or may not reflect those of my employers or any other BCE company or division.

btech805

join:2013-08-01
Greely, ON
kudos:11
If it's a longer run it might require larger than RG6 and hence the high cost

cepnot4me

join:2013-10-29
L0C 1K0
kudos:4
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL

1 edit
reply to hosedagain3
If a house is serviceable, the run to the house is free (up to 500') any costs are for getting the network to run past your house. My guess is at $4000 they just need to add a tap.
And JCohen, Rg6 isn't sufficient, at 300' to 500' RG11 is required.

cepnot4me

join:2013-10-29
L0C 1K0
kudos:4
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
The only other thing you can do Is a petition. Make something up that you can take to your neighbors to sign.

Name, Address and services they would be interested in from Rogers.

Odds are it won't help, but ive seen them work before.

You getting service at $100/month vs you and your neighbors st a an average monthly bill of $250. Makes the 60 grand look more cost effective.

Send that to Rogers.

grand total

join:2005-10-26
Mississauga
kudos:2
Reviews:
·VMedia
·Anveo
said by cepnot4me:

You getting service at $100/month vs you and your neighbors st a an average monthly bill of $250. Makes the 60 grand look more cost effective.

I doubt that even $1000 a month would be enough on that basis, $2000 and you might be talking. Simple maths really, at $1000 a month (which is not even pure profit for Rogers) it will take 5 years just to recover the cost.
--
SB6141 - WRT610N + Shibby Tomato - Panasonic KX-TGP500 - Asterisk 1.8.27.0 on a Virtual Server
Anveo - Voxbeam - Numbergroup - Localphone

cepnot4me

join:2013-10-29
L0C 1K0
kudos:4
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
What I meant was 1 customer with hi-speed at $100 month.. not worth it.

30 customers with varying packages, at $250/month. (Some cable HSI and phone, some cable only, some phone only some cable, phone, Internet, smart home monitoring etc..) is $7500/month.

When Rogers runs new network every house it passes is eligible for service.

Let's say our OP pays 60k to get service.

He foots the bill, but everyone between him and the last tap is now available for service. (At no cost by the way.)

Rogers looks at ROI over a year.

$7500/month = $90,000/year.

The network is paid for before the end of year one if 25 people sign up.
Most of them would be on 2 year contracts.

Hence the need for the petition. I've seen the petitions work in other Rural areas. Draft one up, go door to door. Explain that they aren't obligated to get service if the petition works, you're only getting an idea which neighbors are interested and in what services.

Forwarding it off to the local Rogers manager gives them a case to present to their directors for growth, guaranteed revenue, cost etc.

They'll decide if it's profitable or not, but your providing the details of potential profits that have been overlooked by planning.

moose_338

join:2013-11-30
Waubaushene, ON
said by cepnot4me:

What I meant was 1 customer with hi-speed at $100 month.. not worth it.

30 customers with varying packages, at $250/month. (Some cable HSI and phone, some cable only, some phone only some cable, phone, Internet, smart home monitoring etc..) is $7500/month.

When Rogers runs new network every house it passes is eligible for service.

Let's say our OP pays 60k to get service.

He foots the bill, but everyone between him and the last tap is now available for service. (At no cost by the way.)

Rogers looks at ROI over a year.

$7500/month = $90,000/year.

The network is paid for before the end of year one if 25 people sign up.
Most of them would be on 2 year contracts.

Hence the need for the petition. I've seen the petitions work in other Rural areas. Draft one up, go door to door. Explain that they aren't obligated to get service if the petition works, you're only getting an idea which neighbors are interested and in what services.

Forwarding it off to the local Rogers manager gives them a case to present to their directors for growth, guaranteed revenue, cost etc.

They'll decide if it's profitable or not, but your providing the details of potential profits that have been overlooked by planning.

So Say I do a petition who would I send it to Bob?
And it would probably be about ten more costumers, think that would be enough for them?


JCohen
Premium
join:2010-10-19
Nepean, ON
kudos:12
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
·TekSavvy Cable
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to cepnot4me
said by cepnot4me:

And JCohen, Rg6 isn't sufficient, at 300' to 500' RG11 is required.

Good to know, thanks for the clarification on that.
--
Opinions expressed are my own, and may or may not reflect those of my employers or any other BCE company or division.

cepnot4me

join:2013-10-29
L0C 1K0
kudos:4
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to moose_338
The more, the better your odds. If you know exactly which house is the last with service, start there. Get both sides of the road, all side streets.

The more the better, 10 might be ok if they want a full bundle each. 25 as a minimum I'd say. 50 is great. 100 is a sure thing.
And yeah, send it to Bob. But don't stop there, Guy Laurence is CEO. Call a rep ask if you can send it to them. Send it to as many people as you think can help.
I know one lady petitioned her postal code. 6 months later we were ready to install in the area.


wa2ibm
Premium
join:2000-10-10
San Jose, CA
reply to hosedagain3
said by hosedagain3:

The neighbour put in a plastic pipe from the road to the house for lights, so all that is needed is to feed the cable from the road to the house through the plastic pipe, about 350 feet.

I don't know about Canadian rules, but in the US it's not legal to run both Class 1 (line voltage) and Class 2 (low voltage) wiring in the same conduit. You MIGHT get away with it if you run a non-metallic fiber cable in the same conduit, but I doubt it.
--
- Bill


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
Reviews:
·VMedia
reply to cepnot4me
said by cepnot4me:

60 grand covers the distribution run, the line extender, the taps, additional hydro poles. Then the labor to do it, permits,, then the cable run to your house. Even if they are only running it to your house the proper install covers a Tap every 300' or so. They have to build the plant to cover every lot along the way even if there isn't a house on it.
Yyzlhr is right, there are line of sight ISPs that have towers everywhere in the rurals. A lot of these are connected to Rogers fiber. (They pay 10K a month or more to provide their point to point high speed to their customers. ) these towers are usually in the middle of nowhere where these ISPS customers are.

So since the OP is the first person to request service, Rogers will charge him for the entire build out and everyone else gets service for the going rate.

What a scam, they should be asking everyone along the line if they want service and divide the cost accordingly
--
My Name is Wiley E Coyote, Super Genius

wayner92

join:2006-01-17
Toronto, ON
reply to moose_338
Can you get LTE in Waubaushene? If so then that could be your best bet for fast internet as long as you don't pull down tons of data.

cepnot4me

join:2013-10-29
L0C 1K0
kudos:4
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to elwoodblues
They will do that, well kind of.
In developed areas that show interest they will send sales reps to do the same as the petition. Gauge potential interest. Especially when they are doing a build nearby. (New subdivisions the builders pay for the network to be installed and stick it onto the value of each home).

Thru did this in my area when thru rebuilt just south of me10 years ago.

Most of the people on my street had direct TV for free, so they declined when door to door came by.

Rogers ended the network at the last taker since there wasn't enough interest on my street.

The OP could go ask everyone to pitch in. 10 houses $6000 each.


nitzguy
Premium
join:2002-07-11
Sudbury, ON
reply to moose_338
1000m is 1km, that is a sizeable distance to extend the plant.

It cost me $5500 to extend hydro a simple 230 feet back in 2008. Only because it was less than 300 feet from the transformer did it only cost me that much, it would have cost a hell of a lot more had another transformer been required.

I feel like Rogers probably have canvassed the area and people balked even at $6000. Why would they spend all that money for internet and TV? + a monthly fee on top of that? Probably why you don't have service down the road.

Good luck though. Hopefully you can get your neighbours in and get them to absorb the cost.

As others have said, perhaps there is a WISP in the area, I think that's in the Central Ontario area in Waubushene so perhaps there is another option available to the OP at a little less cost as $6,000 is still a big pill to swallow.

moose_338

join:2013-11-30
Waubaushene, ON
As it stand I cant afford anything over a grand, my brother and father are both disabled and our household cant afford much.

For LTE it'll be out of the question we pull +/- 500GB a month on our Bell DSL service, which is slow at 3down/.5 up( pay for 5/1) Although it's slow it's been nothing but stable with 0 packet lose and really good ping. So only complaint is speed.

As it stands I'm going to try the petition this week or next, when I get time. Other then that working I'm stuck with what I have I cant seem to find any line of sight ISP's in the area. It'll be Bells Fibe to the node upgrade I'll be waiting on, been told roughly six months, Their has been a ton of bell trucks in the area for a while now, so I can hope it's sooner.

Honestly it would be cheaper to move then to pay Rogers the 60 grand so they can take my money monthly. And profit off my neighbors at the same time, off my bought and paid for infrastructure. As for the bad taste they left in my mouth It's would be a move to get bell fiber.

Only helpful Rogers employee I've spoken to has been Cepnot4me AND hes not even getting paid for his help on here.

I've spoken to the Simcoe County TM and a outside plant engineer and neither one seemed like they even wanted to try helping me with this problem. The interest is there they just don't want to see it.

Rogers makes billions a year, it would be a small investment in comparison and it would of course pay itself off in time.

yyzlhr

join:2012-09-03
Scarborough, ON
kudos:4
If you can get Bell DSL right now have you looked into an MLPP setup with Teksavvy?

jumpingryan

join:2008-07-27
Pembroke, ON
said by yyzlhr:

If you can get Bell DSL right now have you looked into an MLPP setup with Teksavvy?

+1 On the MLPPP setup. I had a similar issue when I was living in Frankford, Ontario in 2009/2010. Limited DSL, and no Cogeco internet. I also had similar speeds to moose_338 on download.

That was when the throttling issues were in the news alot, and I tried MLPPP with 2 connections. Worked great, and got a steady +5-6 down and 1 up.

I had a rather complicated hardware setup then (2 DSL modems, two routers, one for MLPP, another for wired/wireless-N lan), as there weren't many wireless-N modems with gigabit ports then. I doubt you will have as many issues now as MLPPP isn't as new.

I would suggest the OP go for a total of 3 connections. As to wanting awesome speeds of 25/1 and all that through cable, I would be willing to bet you could get 10/1.5, with 3 MLPPP connections for under $150 a month. If you stayed on a 300 gig per connection setup, TekSavvy was giving you the combined total of your bandwidth per month.

On a positive note, it could be worse for you! At least you have good DSL. You could be like everyone on my street with no DSL and no cable, stuck with satellite for the high bandwidth users, or Turbo Hub for the low bandwidth users.

Living on my street wouldn't allow you to use the internet like you do now (however, unfortunately for me, either street beside of me has DSL).. But that topic is like a broken record now, and has another thread.

Good luck.


Qsig

join:2009-05-18
Kanata, ON
reply to moose_338
Just a note on the MLPPP, Teksavvy requires new signups to use the unlimited packages when ordering MLPPP. New business decision.

moose_338

join:2013-11-30
Waubaushene, ON
said by Qsig:

Just a note on the MLPPP, Teksavvy requires new signups to use the unlimited packages when ordering MLPPP. New business decision.

that's fine, lol I'd be insane to get anything other.

hosedagain3

join:2008-02-18
Sharon, ON
reply to hosedagain3
said by hosedagain3:

My neighbour is looking to get Rogers cable for TV and Internet. They are on a dish for TV and use Explornet, I think thats what its called, satellite for internet. I believe no internet from Bell as their service is not available. The neighbour put in a plastic or conduit pipe from the road to the house for lights, so all that is needed is to feed the cable from the road to the house through the pipe, about 350 feet. Rogers wants $5000, are you kidding me? got to be more to this for Rogers to ask for so much $$$$. No need to run a new line at the road as it is already there. I have Rogers TV and internet as well as all the neighbours I know have the same.
WTH. Didn't cost me anything when I hooked up 15 years ago. Just a small hook up fee if I remember rightly.

Just an update, the distance from the road is 400 feet. they were told Rogers would have to put in a pole for the cable (instead of running it through the pipe from the road) because of a booster which would be needed because of the distance from the road. Who at Rogers can they talk to?

cepnot4me

join:2013-10-29
L0C 1K0
kudos:4
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
The distance from the road is 400'. But we go by the distance from the nearest tap. If the tap is more than 100' up the road, no Dice.

Try to just Book the appointment. Talk to the tech. If you have conduit, that's great. Does it have a pull string? If not.. is it empty? If both answers are No. It won't be used.
However, they will bury a new line.

The installing tech just needs to run you a temp line. Tell him you don't want an aerial (If there is even an aerial pole).

If the tap is across the street though, they need to cross over the street with an aerial line. Then bury it to your house from what ever pole they go to from the other side of the street.

Rule of thumb. IF Rogers rolls a tech out to install, they will find a way to get the feed out there.