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permutations
join:2013-03-03
New York, NY

permutations

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[TV] NYC - cable plugged directly into digital TV no longer works

I have a set top box (a DVR), but I also like to plug a cable directly into my digital TV so I can use the TV's tuner in addition to the DVR tuners. I like having the additional tuner, plus I got some unusual channels that way that I didn't get through the set top box.

This always used to work, but at some point recently (not sure when), it stopped working. Now I can't get any channels at all through the TV's tuner - I have to use the set top box. I unplugged and re-plugged the cable, so I know the connection is tight.

I called TWC about it today (I'm in NYC), and the customer service person told me it should work, that I do not need a digital adapter if I have a digital TV. So what is wrong??
permutations

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It seems that TWC has started SCRAMBLING all channel signals, so even if you have a digital TV tuner, you have to get their lousy converter. TWC is the worst company ever.

»abc11.com/archive/8920795/

kilrathi
Premium Member
join:2005-04-22
Rockaway Park, NY

kilrathi to permutations

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THis been discussed many times already, they did this because they have a right to do it, if you want go ahead and use antenna, otherwise you will have to pay basic cable, its in their right.
mja1980
join:2013-05-09

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i would guess that you are in area with maxx internet? If so then it could be that all your channels are now switch digital video and won't work without a box.

scrambled234
@68.168.96.x

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»www.timewarnercable.com/ ··· >Starter (aka Basic) TV Service Encryption
permutations
join:2013-03-03
New York, NY

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I don't know what "maxx internet" is, and I don't know what "switch digital video" is, so I don't understand what you're saying. I live in Greenwich Village, NYC.

I have a digital TV, so I ought to be able to get a digital signal directly through the cable, and at one time this worked. I read that TWC is now scrambling ALL channels - not just premium channels - and that's why the adapter is necessary. Is this not so?
permutations

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to kilrathi
This has nothing to do with me not wanting to pay for cable. I have a DVR box for this TV, and I pay TWC plenty. As I said in my original post, I just also like to use the TV tuner, for the reasons previously stated, and I no longer can.

motorola870
join:2008-12-07
Arlington, TX

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said by mja1980:

i would guess that you are in area with maxx internet? If so then it could be that all your channels are now switch digital video and won't work without a box.

SDV has nothing to do with the MAXX upgrades nor scrambling of the clear QAM channels. SDV was already in use and they didn't move anything else to SDV except for new services being added to expanded basic or higher in most areas.
Expand your moderator at work

maartena
Elmo
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join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA

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Re: [TV] NYC - cable plugged directly into digital TV no longer works

said by permutations:

It seems that TWC has started SCRAMBLING all channel signals, so even if you have a digital TV tuner, you have to get their lousy converter. TWC is the worst company ever.

TWC (or cable in general) is the only television provider still stuck in the analog age, and they are finally doing something about it. Try any other television provider you can get, see if you can get service to a TV without a box.
mets18
join:2008-10-15
Cranford, NJ

mets18

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said by maartena:

TWC (or cable in general) is the only television provider still stuck in the analog age, and they are finally doing something about it. Try any other television provider you can get, see if you can get service to a TV without a box.

It has nothing to do with analog. You can have a 100% digital system which provides unencrypted QAM signals like FIOS does.

kilrathi
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join:2005-04-22
Rockaway Park, NY

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I don't mind this, they simply have a right to encrypt channels and force people to pay for even basic cable(although ny1 channel is free unencrypted in nyc). What I am actually angry about is the fact cable companies like twc won't let customers choose which channels they want to pay for, now that would be revolutionary.

maartena
Elmo
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join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA

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said by mets18:

said by maartena:

TWC (or cable in general) is the only television provider still stuck in the analog age, and they are finally doing something about it. Try any other television provider you can get, see if you can get service to a TV without a box.

It has nothing to do with analog. You can have a 100% digital system which provides unencrypted QAM signals like FIOS does.

True. But on the other hand, FIOS doesn't have to worry about cable theft. When the FIOS is cancelled, the box that connects to the fiber cable is simply disabled with a remote switch. Cable has had problems with cable theft since they built out their networks, so they sort of have to.

By the way, I don't think they are encrypting QAM just yet, they are just removing all the analog channels to free up bandwidth, so to watch those channels you now need a box.

kilrathi
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join:2005-04-22
Rockaway Park, NY

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In NYC TWC indeed encrypted most clearqam channels, I live in queens and only unencrypted channel last time I checked this year was NY1, some polish radio station channel and twc ad channel.

atcotr
@65.60.144.x

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Cable "theft" isn't a problem; it should be called free riding. TWC may be able to squeeze a little bit more revenue from folks now forced to sign up for local channel service or get boxes for their secondary TVs.

The real problem is people who aren't customers and hook up tube TVs with poor quality splitters, connectors, and cable and thus inject noise into the CATV system. If they can no longer get any TV channels by plugging in they will eventualy learn not to bother tying in their hardware. Decreased noise means improved reliability and the possibility of more Internet uplink channels for paying customers.

CarrierWave
@72.183.76.x

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said by permutations:

plus I got some unusual channels that way that I didn't get through the set top box.

This makes me think you might have actually been receiving over-the-air broadcasts on a leaky piece of cable rather than TWC's service. I guess you might also have been seeing some of the information channels or unencrypted VOD/SDV channels being watched by other people in your neighborhood. If you WERE seeing OTA channels your reception probably just got a little worse, but it's hard to say without seeing it

Suit Up
join:2003-07-21
Los Angeles, CA
Ubiquiti EdgeRouter X
TP-Link Archer C7

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said by maartena:

True. But on the other hand, FIOS doesn't have to worry about cable theft. When the FIOS is cancelled, the box that connects to the fiber cable is simply disabled with a remote switch.

Cablecos could've done/could still do the same thing (remote shutoff), but chose to go the cheaper route of encrypting everything rather than installing new hardware.
brad152
join:2006-07-27
Chicago, IL

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Every cable company i've had (Cox, Insight, Comcast, Time Warner, etc) have all had all of the obscure local sub-channels (like MyTV, additional spanish channels, etc) all on the cable line and they deliberately did it as most of the time they were parked on ClearQAM above channel 100 (Cox definitely still does this in Phoenix)

I think it's lame that they encrypt the locals now as those are FTA anyway, so what's the point of doing those?

maartena
Elmo
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join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA

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said by Suit Up:

said by maartena:

True. But on the other hand, FIOS doesn't have to worry about cable theft. When the FIOS is cancelled, the box that connects to the fiber cable is simply disabled with a remote switch.

Cablecos could've done/could still do the same thing (remote shutoff), but chose to go the cheaper route of encrypting everything rather than installing new hardware.

Not so easy as you think. When they built the cable networks in the 70s and 80s, everything was analog. There was no "FIOS box" or "U-Verse box" at your premises where service could be turned off, virtually with a click of a mouse. It just didn't exist. The only way to do it, was to physically go to the pole, and install a filter, and that is what has been done until recently.

They did not start encrypting really, the digital lineup was ALREADY encrypted, since the first start of digital television in the early 2000s. What they are doing is REMOVING the analog channels, and perhaps they have also started removing the QAM channels. For a cable system, this will free up a great deal of bandwidth. In the same frequency space of 1 analog channel, they can cram 3 perfectly crystal clear HD channels, OR they can use that frequency spectrum to add to internet bandwidth.
maartena

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said by brad152:

I think it's lame that they encrypt the locals now as those are FTA anyway, so what's the point of doing those?

They are Free To Air. Not Free To Cable. There is a difference.

I just put an antenna up on my roof, and am picking up 131 channels in the greater Los Angeles area, including around 20 in HD. Maybe more. That works mighty fine.

sarge99
@108.27.63.x

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said by Suit Up:

Cablecos could've done/could still do the same thing (remote shutoff), but chose to go the cheaper route of encrypting everything rather than installing new hardware.

what new hardware are you talking about that does remote shutoff? if your talking about addressable taps well that has shown be to unrealiable and no longer made. it also draws lot more power which costs get passed to you the consumer. encrypting is the cheapest and efficient way to go.
jpatton1979
join:2011-08-10
Louisville, KY
Pace 5268AC
Ubiquiti Unifi Security Gateway Pro
Ubiquiti UniFi UAP-AC-PRO

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From what I've read the only unencrypted signals are the broadcast locals, music, and WGN (possibly a few more). The rest require either a STB or a CableCARD.

»Verizon FiOS FAQ »Does FiOS TV require a Verizon STB?

»www.verizon.com/support/ ··· ards.htm

maartena
Elmo
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join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA

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Well the reality is that analog is going to be removed....and that leaves you with the encrypted channels already there. As far as I understand, QAM channels haven't actually be removed yet, but they may very well be next.

It's a good thing, really. It will free up a lot of capacity. It's really a win situation imho, but then.... I am a cord cutter and always want more internet bandwidth.

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Los Angeles, CA
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1 edit

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said by maartena:

Not so easy as you think.

I never said anything about easy. I did say they went with the cheaper option... and cheaper usually means easier, or it wouldn't be cheaper.
said by maartena:

They did not start encrypting really

Yes they did, that is the problem that the OP is having.
said by maartena:

the digital lineup was ALREADY encrypted, since the first start of digital television in the early 2000s.

Not true in all cases.
said by maartena:

What they are doing is REMOVING the analog channels

Not related to this discussion.
said by maartena:

and perhaps they have also started removing the QAM channels

Not happening. QAM channels are the digital channels. Even SDV channels are QAM (just the content of the QAM channel is not always the same and the virtual channel (ex 403) does not always go to the same physical channel (aka frequency and program stream).
said by maartena:

For a cable system, this will free up a great deal of bandwidth.

Sure, if they shut off all the TV channels, they'll save a lot of bandwidth...
said by maartena:

In the same frequency space of 1 analog channel, they can cram 3 perfectly crystal clear HD channels

Don't know what channels you're watching, but no, they can not cram 3 perfectly crystal clear HD channels in the space of 1 analog channel... unless they use MPEG-4. MPEG-2 channels are not small enough to be 3 in one channel space without adding a lot of compression. But this is all really nothing to do with this topic at all.
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said by sarge99 :

what new hardware are you talking about that does remote shutoff? if your talking about addressable taps well that has shown be to unrealiable and no longer made. it also draws lot more power which costs get passed to you the consumer. encrypting is the cheapest and efficient way to go.

I am not talking about new hardware as in something that is being developed, but new as in they would have to add it to the infrastructure. And yes, they were unrealiable. But so was (and still sometimes is) SDV and we've gotta live with it. As I said, the cablecos decided to go the cheaper route and encrypt. They could've invested time and money to fix the problems with the addressable taps if they wanted. But they didn't. Sure, that's their choice. Cool. Whatever. Doesn't mean that they couldn't have set up a system that could be shut off remotely, like FiOS, if they had wanted to.
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said by maartena:

QAM


ITGeeks
join:2014-04-20
Cleveland, OH

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Buckeye in Ohio required a box back in the 80s and 90s as to obtain many of their channels. Very few were able to be had without a box.