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intok (banned)
join:2012-03-15

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Re: Microsoft to Revamp Activation System with Windows 9....!?!

You can hackintosh and Apple used to license Mac OS out, though this was long before they moved to commodity x86 hardware.

On the other hand there where plenty of other OSs out there that where for x86 that never got a chance because they couldn't get on an OEM install, like BeOS and OS/2, Linux is in this position right now, outside of a handful of very specialized OEMs or high end servers from the big OEMs you can't get a Linux preinstalled system, go try it at your local Best Buy or Office Max. SteamOS could change this, but that remains to be seen.

Just remember, the majority of the world only runs Windows because it's their only option in the store that isn't a $1000 investment in a Mac.
Expand your moderator at work

EUS
Kill cancer
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join:2002-09-10
canada

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Re: Microsoft to Revamp Activation System with Windows 9....!?!

MS better become less expensive, better at listening to their corp clients, and stop the bi-annual s-ware audits, but it looks as though they're heading in the opposite direction.
Every new employee we hire runs approx $1500 in licensing to MS.
Including O/S, exchange, office, and a couple other bizarre things we have to pay for each connection.
For the first time in my career, I'm hearing MS trained IT guys start to talk about getting away from MS, and look for alternatives.

Boricua
Premium Member
join:2002-01-26
Sacramuerto

Boricua

Premium Member

said by EUS:

For the first time in my career, I'm hearing MS trained IT guys start to talk about getting away from MS, and look for alternatives.

You can bet when M$ sees their bottom line being hurt and their stock price affected, they'll be singing a new tune.
NefCanuck
join:2007-06-26
Mississauga, ON

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But here's the thing I don't understand:

Given the poor takeup rate of Win 8.x in the existing user base of PC's and the amount of backtracking they've had to do, why in the world would they be looking at an activation system that (arguably) is worse for the end user than what's in place already?

Do they really want to have to backpedal again?

NefCanuck

Boricua
Premium Member
join:2002-01-26
Sacramuerto

Boricua

Premium Member

Judging by their history, what do you think? As an example, Windows Vista was a big fiasco, hence Windows 7 was pushed out rather quickly. Many here (and other places) have said Windows 7 should be Windows Vista SP 2 (shrugs).
BlitzenZeus
Burnt Out Cynic
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join:2000-01-13

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Look at how they tried to tie bought games to xbox one accounts, and kill the resell/rental market. They quickly revered that before it was even released, but they have real competition from Sony. Also bundling it with that stupid kinect was another horrible idea, everybody likes their game system to turn on when that Arron Paul commercial comes on right? How did they not catch that before?

They might get away with it in the consumer desktop market as nobody is really challenging them in this space, but if you buy a package system where you still have to activate your windows to an account it won't be seen as favorable, possibly even trying to make you use that same account as the login on your computer for their stupid cloud accounts.

Look at how companies tried to prevent computers from reading cds, even the sony cd copy protection rookit which auto-installed which they had to recall those disks. These days you can buy drm free mp3s. At some point you have to stop punishing the paying customers.

MeMyselfAndI
@76.115.235.x

MeMyselfAndI

Anon

DRM doesn't work. Full stop.

Some unlikely game developers/publishers have recently been waking up to this fact and publicly announcing that they understand it doesn't work... (Ubisoft for example)...and yet they continue to implement one of the worst DRM schemes on the PC. lol The devs/pubs who truly get it - like CDProjektRed - are few and far between. Yet, it does seem there is at least some waking recognition that draconian DRM is self-defeating.

At any rate, cracked Windows 9 .iso rips will be available all over torrents before the retail release hits its street date. At best this new DRM scheme will inconvenience legitimate users...and definitely *encourage* more piracy amongst the group who are on the fence and have the capability. They would be smarter to make it more consumer friendly and affordable with less hoops to jump through. This is why Steam works.

But, MS just doesn't seem to learn. They continually try to foist useless, unwanted, or even anti-consumer features and products on their target markets and only show even a semblance of awareness when there is massive outcry and competition to deal with (Xbone vs. PS4). As noted earlier, since they a stranglehold on the desktop OS market for the time being I think we can expect the worst as they attempt to push yet more anti-consumer "features". And if they have the hubris to push the OS into a subscription model I think their OS will cease to exist as a major source of revenue for them.

sivran
Vive Vivaldi
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join:2003-09-15
Irving, TX

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Wait a sec. Did I miss something here?

Hasn't online activation been a thing since XP? The biggest difference I'm seeing here is the lack of a CD key and being tied to Windows store. Retail DVDs are not going to go away, so the user experience is going to be pretty much the same. Pop disc in, install, activate.

Now though, you can manage your license online instead of calling Microsoft. DRM foulup thinks your new video card constitutes a new PC? No problem. Log into Windows Store and fix it.

trparky
Premium Member
join:2000-05-24
Cleveland, OH
·AT&T U-Verse

trparky

Premium Member

said by sivran:

Now though, you can manage your license online instead of calling Microsoft. DRM foulup thinks your new video card constitutes a new PC? No problem. Log into Windows Store and fix it.

This is what I think is going to happen as well so I see these changes to the activation system as a good thing, not a bad thing as most people see it. It puts the ability to fix the issue in the hands of the user instead of having to call Microsoft.

Again, as I stated before in this thread...
1. Motherboard dies.
2. Go to Windows 9 license web site and login.
3. Click on a DeActivate or Revoke button for old system.
4. Install OS on new system and activate.
5. ???
6. Profit!

How much easier do you want it to be?

Yes, I know that DRM is a bad thing and that we all want to see it gone but let's face it, as long as we have thieves in this world DRM is going to be a thing that we're going to have to deal with. This is an example of the few ruining it for the rest of us.

salzan
Experienced Optimist
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join:2004-01-08
WA State

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There is another facet to this scheme that makes me uncomfortable. With the current activation Windows is attached to my computer. The new plan makes it attached to me. I'm not sure what information is required to have a Windows 'Store" account but I'm sure it's more than I have to provide to activate now. This in itself isn't too onerous but coupled with the amount of unknown information Windows sends back to MS to check for updates and whatever else it needs constantly, it's troubling.

I think this is following the current trend that is happening with apps on most phones and tablets: gather all the information you can, you never know what it might be worth.

waitingroom
@137.53.249.x

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You assume it will be that easy, don't count on it.
lawsoncl
join:2008-10-28
Spirit Lake, ID

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Apple tried licensing the software for other platforms (remember the Power PCs?). They lost money because Apple makes their money on the hardware. The loss in hardware sales vastly outstripped the licensing income.

Dell tried marketing desktops with Redhat pre-installed and even a no-OS option for home use. Nobody bought them, partly because you only saved $50 by not getting the Windows license. You can still get them through the business side side though. Walmart was selling Linux computers for a while with a windows-like desktop. They had tons of returns once people figured out they couldn't run most Windows software.

Linux has potential though, and I think Ubuntu has had the most success in the home market. They just need to stop changing the freaking UI with every version and get better software penetration.

OverBurn
join:2004-02-21
Greenwood, IN

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It seem no matter what decision needs to be made, you can bet MS will make the wrong one.
intok (banned)
join:2012-03-15

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Apple handled the licensing poorly, they failed to realize that they couldn't command a premium price for the same hardware that their licensees where selling.

Redhat was never marketed for the home user, it was never meant for home use as it is a slow moving server distro and only an option along with their FreeDOS systems for servers.

Dell did try selling Ubuntu systems, but the models where never advertised, never sold at retail, never sold on the main store page, the only way to find them was to go out of your way to find them. Even then the systems where not well supported, often the same price or more expensive then the equivalent Dell running Windows and very limited hardware selection and many models where only available for a very short period of time. One model that was popular was their $200 Ubuntu laptop, but was only available for about a month.

Dell's Linux efforts are largely only there for leverage against Microsoft for cheaper Windows Licensing, just as their old threats of switching to AMD hardware was to get cheaper hardware from Intel.

There was a few attempts years ago with a bunch of cut rate Linux systems, too bad each and every one of them picked some custom distro that the company stopped supporting within 6 months and since there was no community around them they died immediately. This was also when Ubuntu was in it's heyday, so there was no reason these companies not to use Ubuntu outside of any reason other then "Not In House Syndrome".

maartena
Elmo
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join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA

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said by intok:

said by 78036364:

Linux has been free for ever and yet still can't crack 2% market share. that tells you something. OS X? Yeah if you want to overpay for an Apple. no thanks.

Microsoft exclusivity contracts with all OEMs going back 30 years?

Has nothing to do with it. There are plenty of self builders out there, and most of those still choose Windows over Linux. There are a plethora of reasons for that, we could start a separate topic for that alone.... suffice it to say that Linux still isn't ready to replace the consumer desktop.
maartena

maartena to salzan

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said by salzan:

said by Octavean:

Microsoft can put their energy into fighting these people but they do so at the cost of inconveniencing their real customers.

This is the problem with most DRM schemes I've run across over the years. The people who are going to steal the product will get a cracked version and carry on. Those of us who pay get to jump through the hoops.

Yup. Windows isn't like a MMO game where you really can't use a cracked copy to play..... there will be a workaround pretty quickly, and it will probably have been cracked before the RTM is released.

I'll just get a legal copy and shut up. But Microsoft shouldn't think for a minute this can't be hacked Now whether it will still allow Windows Updates without a Store Account, remains to be seen. But considering the rampant amount of piracy in Windows already, I think they would be shooting themselves in the foot if they allow all the illegal PC's to be infected with a virus after a nasty security bug for which a patch was released.
intok (banned)
join:2012-03-15

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said by maartena:

Has nothing to do with it. There are plenty of self builders out there, and most of those still choose Windows over Linux. There are a plethora of reasons for that, we could start a separate topic for that alone.... suffice it to say that Linux still isn't ready to replace the consumer desktop.

Yeah, the vast majority of PC gamers built their own systems and ran Windows as for most of the 90's-2010's a gaming class GPU didn't exist as a BTO option from most companies, let alone a PSU capable of powering aany of the modern models.

Face it, consumers where buying the cheapest box they could get once comps started taking off. An OEM comp that is decently fast and comes with a decent GPU at a not quite break the bank price tag is a recent development that has come about as the CPU and amount of RAM has become "Good Enough" for the average consumer, as well as Nvidia and AMD/ATI pushing ever better GPUs into the entry level segment to supplant the crap that Intel, VIA and SIS where putting out there for IGPs.

I take it you don't remember when Nvidia had pretty much taken over the IGP market with their Nforce 600 line, it wasn't till Intel and AMD forced them out of the chipset market that they lost that domination of the IGP market.

These days AMD's APUs are looking ever better to the average user due to their not terrible GPU performance, it forced Intel to finally get off their ass and try to compete, but the only way they could was by gluing on some very expensive eDram on the die so that they could at least have a paper victory on the benchmark sites while the price/performance ratio wasn't there for the market that would actually USE that GPU over a dedicated card.
intok

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said by maartena:

Yup. Windows isn't like a MMO game where you really can't use a cracked copy to play..... there will be a workaround pretty quickly, and it will probably have been cracked before the RTM is released.

I'll just get a legal copy and shut up. But Microsoft shouldn't think for a minute this can't be hacked Now whether it will still allow Windows Updates without a Store Account, remains to be seen. But considering the rampant amount of piracy in Windows already, I think they would be shooting themselves in the foot if they allow all the illegal PC's to be infected with a virus after a nasty security bug for which a patch was released.

Because if most of the non western world was perpetually infected they'd eventually start looking for free alternatives that allow system updates...