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Steeler Fan
join:2011-12-24

Steeler Fan

Member

Very unhappy... (An update, 20+ days later...)

Sorry, I've been trying to post to the previous thread I started before, but it says my account can not post to threads that have not been used in 14 days... Hence I'm starting a new thread. A moderator is welcome to merge it...

I created an account, and I didn't have an account before, so that's why the user name is different...

Okay...

It's been 2 months now and I *still* don't have my number.

In late May, Voipo said they changed my billing address "From my old address to my new address"... They assured me of this in several emails...

Well, this appears to be incorrect.

Voipo has now told me something COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. VOIPo LLC is listed as the owner of the number with the underlying provider - which appears to be Broadvox... SO Broadvox thinks that VOIPO LLC owns the number... Even though I ported it in from another carrier before.

I've now filed complaints with the FCC against both VOIPO and Verizon over this issue.

We've tried porting it about 11 or 12 times now, I know we're in the double digits.

I now have a team of 6 people working with me at Verizon to get my number back. One of these is on the executive team. They've made it their personal mission to get this number, and they say theyve never encountered anything like this before. We even did a 3 way call with VOIPo LLC.

Because Voipo's name and address are listed as the billing contact through Broadvox, Verizon's legal team has advised me that it is nearly IMPOSSIBLE to legally port out my number.

Verizon's executive is going to call an executive over at BROADVOX tomorrow morning to try to work out a compromise somehow...

So, don't go calling me crazy that this is all verizon's problem. Now I have Executives at two corporations calling each other to try to resolve this issue.

Get this: Voipo tech support has been completely unhelpful. I've been more than polite, but one time they literally **LAUGHED** at me on the phone. They **laughed**. I said the address seems to be wrong on my account and I cannot port out the number, -- they said "Call back when you have a real error message and then we'll help you." Then LAUGHED at my problem, Note that this was the 7th or so time I'd called in about the issue.

NEVER before have I had a company laugh at me.

They lied to me that they changed the billing contact to my current address.

For the last few weeks they have been telling me to use their own company name to port out the number, as their own company, VOIPO LLC is listed on the billing contact (Notice this is very different from saying they updated the address to my current address).

The reason I cannot port out a number owned by someone else is that I could easily steal someone's phone number. Verizon's executives were clear about this. This is why their executive is going to call Broadvox tomorrow.

OOOH I am so FURIOUS about this. Since Voipo laughed at my situation when I came asking for help, I couldn't care less about them.

I just want this nightmare over.
PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

PX Eliezer1

Premium Member

Thanks for the update, here is the original thread:
»Very unhappy....

I hope that you get this worked out.

Trev
AcroVoice & DryVoIP Official Rep
Premium Member
join:2009-06-29
Victoria, BC

Trev to Steeler Fan

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to Steeler Fan
said by Steeler Fan:

For the last few weeks they have been telling me to use their own company name to port out the number, as their own company, VOIPO LLC is listed on the billing contact (Notice this is very different from saying they updated the address to my current address).

As irritating as that is, it's actually very common for VoIP companies to do this.

When porting VoIP-to-VoIP, it's no problem because everyone (at the VoIP companies) knows this is common practice.

When porting VoIP-to-Landline, which is rare, the big incumbents aren't used to this and don't really have a process in place to use a customer name that's not yours. And they're right, because it does completely undermine security.

I'm not defending anyone or anything here. Just explaining the industry.
VOIPoTim
VOIPO.com
Premium Member
join:2006-06-06
Irvine, CA

2 recommendations

VOIPoTim to Steeler Fan

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to Steeler Fan
Hello,

I'm the owner of VOIPO and am very sorry to hear about the issues you're having.

Please e-mail me directly with your VOIPO number at tim @ voipo.com and I'm happy to personally reach out to the carrier to make sure they release the number.

We don't have a lot of control over porting since that's handled at the carrier level, but it sounds like the upstream carrier is definitely not handling this appropriately. They don't give us the ability to provide any name/address for a number so the only one they should have on file is ours. Porting in and out is routine so they should definitely not be confused about it.

I'm happy to personally reach out to our contacts at the carrier to help you with the transfer.

I'd also like to look into your support history. It's very concerning that a support agent would laugh at your issue and I'd like to review the call history. Laughing at an issue reported by a customer while it's still unresolved definitely isn't the norm for us and if that's something I find an agent doing, I'd very likely fire them. I apologize for any bad experience you had there and would like to review the call history.

It sounds like you have the attention of Verizon and I can get the attention of our carrier partner so if we can get in touch and connect them both with all of us looped in the conversation then there's no reason they can't get it done.

Please get in touch with me at tim @ voipo.com so I can try to help you and make this right.

I know you're no longer wanting to use our service and even once this is resolved, you may still not like us due to this bad experience, but I'd like to at least work with you to get the carrier to release the number and also address the support issue you had. As I said, I'm the owner of the company and this is definitely not how we do business so I'd really like to get to the bottom of it and address this both with the upstream carrier (they should not be rejecting/delaying) and with the support agent(s) you dealt with.
PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

PX Eliezer1

Premium Member

1+ VOIPoTim.
Mango
Use DMZ and you get a kick in the dick.
Premium Member
join:2008-12-25
www.toao.net

1 recommendation

Mango to VOIPoTim

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to VOIPoTim

Steeler Fan
join:2011-12-24

Steeler Fan to VOIPoTim

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to VOIPoTim
Tim,
First, I want to say that I am very pleased to see your response. I've been trying to be patient with this whole ordeal. I have to admit, I lost my temper twice on the phone, once was with Verizon, and once may have been with Voipo, but, under the circumstances, I'm surprised I've been able to remain calm - for the most part.

On another note, I would like to say that while your reply is appreciated, it is also about a month and a half too late. I've explained very carefully to your support staff what has been happening and they have been most unhelpful, - one promised that they changed the billing address to my current address, something that most certainly did not happen. So I legitimately feel I've been lied to. When a customer is experiencing the degree of frustration that I've been experiencing, help like yours should come earlier - so that customers like me don't post negative posts like this -- and reviews such as I've posted -- and have to file complaints with the FCC.

If this is 'industry standard' for VOIP providers to use their own name on the port request - and it is known this causes problems for companies like Verizon --- well, someone should have known about this. Instead, your company continuously pointed the finger at Verizon --- and now I find out that the billing contact is in Voipo's name --- well, that's not legally right to do... So guess what, it WAS either Voipo's fault, or at least BroadVox's fault --- Not Verizon -- as everyone on your staff seemed to say...

'enough said.

I look forward to resolving this. I'll email you with my phone number.

As soon as the number is ported, I'll get rid of my strongly negative review. I do hope, however, that your tech support will learn to deal with this problem more professionally and truthfully in the future.
VOIPoTim
VOIPO.com
Premium Member
join:2006-06-06
Irvine, CA

2 edits

VOIPoTim

Premium Member

said by Steeler Fan:

Tim,
First, I want to say that I am very pleased to see your response. I've been trying to be patient with this whole ordeal. I have to admit, I lost my temper twice on the phone, once was with Verizon, and once may have been with Voipo, but, under the circumstances, I'm surprised I've been able to remain calm - for the most part.

On another note, I would like to say that while your reply is appreciated, it is also about a month and a half too late. I've explained very carefully to your support staff what has been happening and they have been most unhelpful, - one promised that they changed the billing address to my current address, something that most certainly did not happen. So I legitimately feel I've been lied to. When a customer is experiencing the degree of frustration that I've been experiencing, help like yours should come earlier - so that customers like me don't post negative posts like this -- and reviews such as I've posted -- and have to file complaints with the FCC.

If this is 'industry standard' for VOIP providers to use their own name on the port request - and it is known this causes problems for companies like Verizon --- well, someone should have known about this. Instead, your company continuously pointed the finger at Verizon --- and now I find out that the billing contact is in Voipo's name --- well, that's not legally right to do... So guess what, it WAS either Voipo's fault, or at least BroadVox's fault --- Not Verizon -- as everyone on your staff seemed to say...

'enough said.

I look forward to resolving this. I'll email you with my phone number.

As soon as the number is ported, I'll get rid of my strongly negative review. I do hope, however, that your tech support will learn to deal with this problem more professionally and truthfully in the future.

Thanks for the fast e-mail. I received it and just replied to it.

I also reached out to our carrier (Broadvox) and they will likely reach out to their underlying carrier that this number is with (Verizon Wholesale).

Since ultimately the underlying carrier appears to be Verizon Wholesale, it doesn't seem like they should have an issue porting it from one Verizon division to another. Hopefully once they realize that they are already the carrier, they can get this taken care of very quickly.

I'm also going to be looking into your support issues as I said.

Please keep in touch with me until this is fully resolved as I really want to help you see it through since you shouldn't be having this issue to begin with.
PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

PX Eliezer1 to Steeler Fan

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Observations.

NOT to criticize anyone, nor praise anyone, nor absolve anyone.

-----

The irony in this situation is that most of the independent VoIP providers could probably have handled the port with less delay and aggravation than Verizon.

In the old days, very few people tried to escape back to East Germany. And relatively few people try to swim back to Cuba.

This is the same difficulty that affects Verizon.

The number of ports from independent VoIP providers BACK to Verizon is minuscule.

Longtime forum member [N9MD] has commented on this more than once. He tried to deal with Verizon on this issue and found [much] ignorance on their part. They literally don't know or understand how to do inbound ports, just outbound.

[And the VoIP companies don't grasp that Verizon quirk either, because porting [to] Verizon so rarely comes up].

Here's a similar example:

Years ago someone wrote to Dear Abby for advice. Her son was having a tough time in medical school. Dear Abby asked the chief of cardiothoracic surgery at Stanford for his advice, and he was unsympathetic. Well OF COURSE such a person would be unsympathetic, you don't achieve such an exalted post without being very tough. Worst person to ask for advice.

Likewise, Verizon (possibly also their erstwhile cousin AT&T) is the worst possible company to try to port TO, in the present environment.

-----

Again, just observations.

NOT to criticize anyone, nor praise anyone, nor absolve anyone. There are multiple lessons here for multiple parties.

BTW in most independent VoIP situations (even Vonage) the retail provider (such as Vonage, Voipo, Anveo, CallCentric, Voip.MS, FutureNine) is going to differ from the CLEC (such as XO, Level.3, Broadvox, Peerless, Iristel, etc)
PX Eliezer1

PX Eliezer1 to VOIPoTim

Premium Member

to VOIPoTim
said by VOIPoTim:

I also reached out to our carrier (Broadvox) and they will likely reach out to their underlying carrier that this number is with (Verizon Wholesale).

Since ultimately the underlying carrier appears to be Verizon Wholesale, it doesn't seem like they should have an issue porting it from one Verizon division to another.

This backs up my point about Verizon.

So the number is already theirs.....!
nitzan
Premium Member
join:2008-02-27

nitzan to Steeler Fan

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to Steeler Fan
said by Steeler Fan:

Because Voipo's name and address are listed as the billing contact through Broadvox, Verizon's legal team has advised me that it is nearly IMPOSSIBLE to legally port out my number.

Excuse my language, but this is bullshit. All they have to do is use the VOIPo name and address on the port request. The problem is you're dealing with Verizon and their head-to-wall non-flexible way of dealing with things - a typical VOIP provider would've had you ported over a month ago.

bbbc
join:2001-10-02
NorthAmerica

bbbc

Member

said by nitzan :

A typical VOIP provider would've had you ported over a month ago.

After my months of trying to port in and out from the typical / beloved PAYG provider, I don't know how true your statement is my friend. Thank god I escaped to a provider that has a clue, Callcentric. It's nice to see VOIPoTim step up to the plate, wish my old guys would have. Just my two cents.
PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

PX Eliezer1

Premium Member

CallCentric is great, but you may not be aware that Nitzan owns FutureNine (and used to work for a POTS company) so he knows whereof he speaks.

bbbc
join:2001-10-02
NorthAmerica

bbbc

Member

said by PX Eliezer :

CallCentric is great, but you may not be aware that Nitzan owns FutureNine (and used to work for a POTS company) so he knows whereof he speaks.

Yeah, I know Nitzan is quite the knowledgeable (and helpful) fellow having his hands in the biz. I was just referring to the Mexican company that seems to be the most beloved on DSLR.

N9MD
Too busy to chat
Premium Member
join:2005-10-08
Boca Raton, FL

N9MD

Premium Member

Can you taste me now?


Best VoIP South of the Border
said by bbbc:

I was just referring to the Mexican company that seems to be the most beloved on DSLR.

Not only beloved ... but tasty, too!
nonymous (banned)
join:2003-09-08
Glendale, AZ

1 recommendation

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Member

to nitzan

Re: Very unhappy... (An update, 20+ days later...)

said by nitzan:

said by Steeler Fan:

Because Voipo's name and address are listed as the billing contact through Broadvox, Verizon's legal team has advised me that it is nearly IMPOSSIBLE to legally port out my number.

Excuse my language, but this is bullshit. All they have to do is use the VOIPo name and address on the port request. The problem is you're dealing with Verizon and their head-to-wall non-flexible way of dealing with things - a typical VOIP provider would've had you ported over a month ago.

Even at a company the size of Verizon the real porting department is most likely small. A few knowledgeable people retire and its over.
Seriously, most ports go.through most of rest handle by lowest tier help desk. Few land to real port people.
Yours seems to have landed to some executive help people and legal department and not someone who lives and breathes ports.
I worked for a telco and had the very very small true porting peoples numbers for when all else failed.
Like said you got idiot lawyers. Not real world port knowledgeable staff.
mazilo
From Mazilo
Premium Member
join:2002-05-30
Lilburn, GA

mazilo to N9MD

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to N9MD

Re: Can you taste me now?

said by N9MD:

said by bbbc:

I was just referring to the Mexican company that seems to be the most beloved on DSLR.

Not only beloved ... but tasty, too!

I thought you meant TaVoIP.

arpawocky
Premium Member
join:2014-04-13
Columbus, OH

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Taco Bell.... Now the new AT&T...
Your heartburn, delivered!

josephf
join:2009-04-26

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Member

to VOIPoTim

Re: Very unhappy... (An update, 20+ days later...)

said by VOIPoTim:

I also reached out to our carrier (Broadvox) and they will likely reach out to their underlying carrier that this number is with (Verizon Wholesale).

Since ultimately the underlying carrier appears to be Verizon Wholesale, it doesn't seem like they should have an issue porting it from one Verizon division to another. Hopefully once they realize that they are already the carrier, they can get this taken care of very quickly.

From what I've seen Verizon (LEC) and Verizon Wholesale (formerly MCI) treat each other as separate companies in all regards regarding porting issues, and it may not be any easier to port between them than to port between entirely different carriers.
PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

PX Eliezer1

Premium Member

said by josephf:

From what I've seen Verizon (LEC) and Verizon Wholesale (formerly MCI) treat each other as separate companies in all regards regarding porting issues, and it may not be any easier to port between them than to port between entirely different carriers.

And Verizon Wireless makes three.

I think that it's good public policy to highlight the shortcomings of Verizon and of Comcast whenever appropriate (ie everyday).
Steeler Fan
join:2011-12-24

Steeler Fan to josephf

Member

to josephf
Um.... Briliant for Voipo...They're continuing to point fingers while I STILL don't have my number.

Yes, Verizon and Verizon Wholesale (MCI) are different companies.

It's not an internal port at all. Believe me, I've been working with the Executive VP on this whole thing for weeks.
Steeler Fan

1 edit

Steeler Fan

Member

Okay, here's the final update.

I lost the number.

The Executive VPs at Verizon called Broadvox, and then they called over to MCI (Verizon Wholesale).

Final word on the street is that the number is in the name of VOIPo LLC and I can do nothing about it.

From here on out, Voipo will continue to blame Verizon and Verizon will continue to say that they cannot port a number belonging to someone else.

Bottom line, 8 weeks of phone calls, 14 porting attempts.

Weeks lost off of my life.

38+ Hours on the phone with both Verizon and Voipo

It all comes down to this...

Don't port your number to VOIP if there is ANY chance of you ever going back to a landline carrier.

The small VOIP Carriers have disdain for the large companies, and the large companies don't know how to play with the little ones.

This whole thing is STUPID>>>>
ABSOLUTELY STUPID.

At the moment I hate Voipo and Verizon equally.

But in the end, VOIPo still has their own company info on my billing info and i cannot get my number back.

Update: Verizon ended up giving me free telephone service for a year...
nonymous (banned)
join:2003-09-08
Glendale, AZ

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You didnt lose the number Verizon just doesnt know or want to port it. The its in Voipo name is an excuse. Match what the record says and put through the port it would work.
Voipo is not going to stop it or come back for it later.
Port to someplace else first if needed.
PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

PX Eliezer1 to Steeler Fan

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said by Steeler Fan:

Don't port your number to VOIP if there is ANY chance of you ever going back to a landline carrier.

That I fully agree with. Fortunately almost no one ever does.
said by Steeler Fan:

Update: Verizon ended up giving me free telephone service for a year...

If this is a package, unfortunately the price difference with/without the phone may be quite minimal in any event.
said by Steeler Fan:

But in the end, VOIPo still has their own company info on my billing info and i cannot get my number back.

I would [bet] that Nitzan Kon of FutureNine could get that number, probably most folks [other than Verizon] could.

As Trevize said (he runs a VoIP outfit himself) this is common in the business. Not that unusual.

It's similar to your stockbroker holding shares of stock in "street name" instead of your own name....

-----

Not meaning to sound unsympathetic. This all sucked.

Thanks for the updates and hope it's all smooth after this.

But as I said, Nitzan can probably get that number unless the field has become too muddied with all the other attention.
Steeler Fan
join:2011-12-24

Steeler Fan

Member

Well, if the large system is set up for someone else to hold MY stock in THEIR name, That's okay, because that's the way the industry works.

"nonymous" -- your comment is rude and ignorant of what I've been through to try to get the number back. Verizon tried. Yes they tried. The problem here, is that there are two different systems that companies are operating under. And there is not "reverse" compatibility for those systems. So Yes. you rude ignorant troll, I DID lose my Number.

I trust someone would be able to get it back. Not sure what I'd do with it now, as I've begun moving my bank account and other information to the new number.

For some reason I just really liked that number.
VOIPoTim
VOIPO.com
Premium Member
join:2006-06-06
Irvine, CA

1 recommendation

VOIPoTim to Steeler Fan

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to Steeler Fan
I'm sorry to hear that you're still having issues with this.

With most of our wholesale carriers, we don't have the ability to put any name or address in for a number. We handle the number ordering through APIs where literally no information is provided and there's no way to provide any. Even if we specifically request it, most providers will just tell us it's not supported. They don't give us the ability to change it, set it, etc.

We've reached out to the upstream carriers involved and provided your name and address and let them know that you are the end user for that number.

This is very common with VoIP since numbers are not tied to an address like traditional landlines and in situations where wholesale carriers are providing blocks or numbers or automated ways to order, port, etc.

It's not a good situation for you, me, or anyone else involved and as the customer you shouldn't even be in the middle of it.

They seem to be denying the port out based on it being listed with a reseller's name which is very common in the VoIP world and not an issue with most carriers that handle VoIP ports.

We've asked that the number be updated to reflect you as the end user so that it will match up with what Verizon landline submits. I have no idea why they can't/won't do that.

Again though, we didn't set the name to anything....we just don't have the ability to provide a name at all and the upstream carriers are not cooperating in changing it.

I don't want to shift blame, but ultimately if Verizon wholesale would simply honor your request as the end user or our request (as the reseller listed) to update this, it would resolve itself. Unfortunately for some reason they have yet to update it even though we've contacted them about it. We've been told it's not possible.

I'm very sorry that you're experiencing this, but I just don't know what else we can do to make this port out happen since we don't have the ability to do what they're telling you we need to do (change the name) and they're ignoring our contacts about it.

We have no reason to hold your number hostage or make it difficult to port out. We have numbers porting in and out every day. If I could "push" the number to them right now I would, but since Verizon Wholesale is the carrier, it's going to take their cooperation.

I'm sure the individuals you're working with at Verizon are willing to do whatever they can to get this resolved just like I am. If both of our hands (your VZ contacts and us) are tied in this though, that's a big hurdle.

If your contacts can find someone within their organization that can do the name change, feel free to give them my e-mail and I'm happy to provide them a written authorization or something along those lines so that they can do it. We just can't find anyone there that can do it or will respond to us about it so we're stick in the middle too. It's not a change we can make on our end since we didn't even set it up that way to begin with.
Steeler Fan
join:2011-12-24

1 recommendation

Steeler Fan

Member

Thanks, I believe you are sincere a out all this. When I get a chance I'll change my voipo review.
Mango
Use DMZ and you get a kick in the dick.
Premium Member
join:2008-12-25
www.toao.net

1 recommendation

Mango to Steeler Fan

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to Steeler Fan
said by Steeler Fan:

Update: Verizon ended up giving me free telephone service for a year...

It's pretty amazing that they would rather give you free service for a year instead of port your number. That's quite something.
VOIPoTim
VOIPO.com
Premium Member
join:2006-06-06
Irvine, CA

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to Steeler Fan
said by Steeler Fan:

Thanks, I believe you are sincere a out all this. When I get a chance I'll change my voipo review.

Thank you. Like I said, if your Verizon contacts can find someone at Verizon Wholesale that will/can do the change, I'm happy to talk to them. We've tried contacting them, but they won't. I want to get it resolved for you because at the end of the day you're our customer, but we need cooperation from Verizon Wholesale. Sorry again for all the trouble.
Steeler Fan
join:2011-12-24

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Mango, they tried about 13 times to port it. They called the executives at the various companies, i believe they did everything they could... They gave me a free year of service after the Executive VPs believed there was NOTHING else they could possibly do.

VOIPTIM... thanks.