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Will Hill
join:2009-06-07

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Will Hill

Member

Same cost for internet + phone service as without phone service

Has anyone noticed that over the past year or so virtually all the major phone and cable companies are packaging their internet service with phone service at almost the same price as they charge for internet-only service? This is true even if you take TV service in the package. You will not get the package, whichever you choose, for any less of a price if you decline to include phone service in your internet-only or your internet + TV package.

A few regional providers still might offer a package without including (unlimited) phone service for $5 or $10 less a month. But even this is becoming more rare. And even when this is still an option, you don't save anything by going with VoIP in your home than by simply sticking with your broadband internet providers bundled phone service. This, effectively, removes the one of the primary benefits of going VoIP -- cost savings. (Of course there are other benefits with a VoSP such as additional features, depending on how useful you find them, but then there is also the benefit of increased reliability/robustness of using the phone/cable phone service on a network fully owned and maintained by your phone service provider from your premises to their premises.)

Verizon is pricing FiOS packages the same whether you include phone service or not in the package. In fact, I see some bundles that cost more to order if you remove FiOS Phone than if you include it! And when pricing with Cablevision's Optimum service, the cost of Optimum Online (with or without Optimum TV) is the same whether you include Optimum Voice or not. This is the case for all new customers. It is possible for older customers with grandfathered plans to have a different set of pricing.

At this stage it is usually less expensive to have the phone service thrown in with the internet (and TV if applicable) service than to forgo it and choose an independent VoSP.

bitseeker
join:2014-03-05

bitseeker

Member

Yeah, though as you said, it depends on the functionality and quality of service you get vs. an independent. So, as with many things, YMMV. Also beware of promo pricing that could change what you pay later.

Currently, my Internet bill is even higher than the published non-promo pricing online. They just keep jacking up the price every year. How's that for rewarding customer loyalty? Darn monopolies.
OzarkEdge
join:2014-02-23
USA

OzarkEdge to Will Hill

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to Will Hill
said by Will Hill:

At this stage it is usually less expensive to have the phone service thrown in with the internet (and TV if applicable) service than to forgo it and choose an independent VoSP.

I think the operative phrase is 'at this stage'. The ISPs want to capture as much of the Internet business as is possible before an al la carte model takes hold and they are left holding just the pipe. I would find any and all reasons to just say no to bundling services... no good can ever come from such a monopoly.

Give me just the pipe and only the pipe, thank you very much. I'll use it however I want.

OE
steve1111
join:2009-09-23
Albany, NY

steve1111 to Will Hill

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I'm finding the same thing too.
PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

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to Will Hill
said by Will Hill:

You will not get the package, whichever you choose, for any less of a price if you decline to include phone service in your internet-only or your internet + TV package.

True.

Probably a combination of factors....

Many people just don't care about voice phone that much, so are not willing to pay for it. In my work I deal with many clients who [have] phone numbers at home from Optimum or Comcast, but never use them. They just go with cell (which I cannot stand!)

Corollary to that: After the triple play period is over (a year or so typically) there is a separate and increased charge for phone service. I wonder how many people just discontinue it at that point.
Pufferty
Perpetual Newbie
join:2014-07-07
Rockville, MD

Pufferty

Member

My quest for VoIP is due to me desire to begin the process of cutting the cord from cable companies. If I wasn't seeking to do this. It would not make sense for me to pa for separate VoIP service, as the price (and quality provided) is a better bargain when bundled with the other services. As someone noted, they are essentially provided it for free (or, in effect, paying you to take it as some bundles are cheaper than a carte selections).

I wonder how long the cut-rate VoIP providers will be around for.

Thoughts?
grand total
join:2005-10-26
Mississauga
·Fido
MikroTik RB750Gr3
MikroTik wAP AC
Panasonic KX-TGP500

grand total

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said by Pufferty:

I wonder how long the cut-rate VoIP providers will be around for.

Thoughts?

Well, in my case I need more features than a cable company phone allows. The only way I'd accept a cable company phone is if it reduced my bill, but I probably wouldn't use it much and certainly not for any calls that incurred extra cost.
PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

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said by Pufferty:

I wonder how long the cut-rate VoIP providers will be around for.

If you mean the ultra-low cost providers, that is a good point.

The providers that will survive have to offer extra services above and beyond the rather basic feature set of cable company VoIP service.

Anveo, CallCentric, Voip.MS, all offer advanced routing capabilities and many services not available in something like Cablevision's Optimum Voice.

Optimum Voice is just starting to offer automated receptionist service for Business phone customers, but it will be an extra $14.95 per month.

I have an OV line (mainly used now for outbound faxing) so I know whereof I speak.

-----

The providers with the very, very cheapest prices will have a hard time because those customers will have no loyalty.

The providers with value-added features, good service, and fair pricing will survive.
drivel
join:2013-07-12
Santa Clara, CA

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Don't you save a bunch in taxes for not having phone service?

My local ISP bundles internet and phone together and does not allow you to opt out of telephone service. This results in you paying telephone taxes for something you do not use.
Pufferty
Perpetual Newbie
join:2014-07-07
Rockville, MD

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Out of curiousity, what are these advanced features? As a new VoIP'er, I still am trying to figure out all there is on offer. Using Phonepower, which has had 4 days straight of voice issues, so its not exactly a great first impression, but I'm determined to cut the cord from the cable company at some point soon.
PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

PX Eliezer1

Premium Member

said by Pufferty:

Out of curiosity, what are these advanced features?

Anveo
»www.anveo.com/consumer/f ··· ures.asp

CallCentric (see list on the left side)
»www.callcentric.com/features/

Voip.MS
»wiki.voip.ms/article/Features

-----

By the way with companies such as these you supply the ATA or IP phone of YOUR choosing, which cannot be done with cable.

This is an incomplete way of getting the idea across, as if I were to just use words to talk about sex.
OzarkEdge
join:2014-02-23
USA

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said by Pufferty:

Out of curiousity, what are these advanced features? As a new VoIP'er, I still am trying to figure out all there is on offer.

This ITSP's website »www.voip.ms lists features. If you create an account (signup), you can configure your service via their online portal to learn more. Add an ata to hookup your analog phone(s) or use a softphone app on a mobile device, and you can try out extension calling for free. Put some money on your account and get a trial DID to call around. If you like it after a month or so of learning about it, port your number in and cancel the trial DID... or try another provider.

OE
Pufferty
Perpetual Newbie
join:2014-07-07
Rockville, MD

Pufferty

Member

But perusing these forums, it seems like none of these services are problem free, and there are tons of complaints for all of them if one searches hard enough.

kerstuf
join:2014-02-12
Tellico Plains, TN

kerstuf

Member

Anything that is made by man will have problems.
PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

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said by Pufferty:

But perusing these forums, it seems like none of these services are problem free, and there are tons of complaints for all of them if one searches hard enough.

So I suppose that you will never buy a car, eat at a restaurant, or kiss a girl. And you'd better not become a parent....

-----

The main VoIP providers have very high customer satisfaction, probably MUCH better than cable companies such as TW or Comcast.

CallCentric: 194 reviews (159 good) (1 bad)
Anveo: 25 reviews (22 good) (1 bad)
Voip.MS: 279 reviews (251 good) (6 bad)
»/gbu

And here on this DSLR website (the one you are at right now) reviews are pretty reliable (again nothing in life is perfect) which is not true at some other review sites.
Ole Juul
join:2013-04-27
Princeton, BC

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said by Pufferty:

there are tons of complaints for all of them if one searches hard enough.

If you have to search "hard" that in itself is some kind of indication of what is going on. Bear in mind that when there is something that is worth resolving (whether it needs to be or not) then those with an interest in telephones will want to discuss it. It may or may not be common, or even significant.

As an aside, may I jokingly suggest that you never get a land line. I can provide you with horror stories in that regard. From personal experience I can tell you about how they are unreliable, provide tauntingly cruel customer service, and lack the technical means to provide a much needed 911 service at all times. Those are facts. However, there's a lot more to consider.

I've been with Callcentric for almost a year now and have had a workable phone and 911 service continuously during that time. That has not been the case with the Telus landline which we also have. That information would carry some weight in my area, but may not apply somewhere else. The irony here is that our copper lines have been around for a century so you'd expect they had the quirks worked out by now, whereas Callcentric is almost as far away from my rural wireless internet connection as it is possible to be in North America.

I'm sold on VoIP.
Pufferty
Perpetual Newbie
join:2014-07-07
Rockville, MD

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All good points. I guess I was a bit unfair in my assessment. I just compared it to my own experience with cable-provided VoIP which was without issue, but I'm sure if I searched for problems with FiOS-related phone issues I'd bet I'd find them.

I guess I'm a bit hypersensitized having had my own VoIP service for a total of a week and 4 days out of that dealing with "one way audio" issues plaguing the provider's network for 4 days without much communication and no resolution.

I was checking out the portal of the provider and there are some nifty features that I am excited to make use of, so I am glad I jumped onto this stuff!

One question since I have the ear of some of you: is there a measurable difference in voice quality among the various ATAs or are the price differences related to features?
drivel
join:2013-07-12
Santa Clara, CA

drivel

Member

said by Pufferty:

One question since I have the ear of some of you: is there a measurable difference in voice quality among the various ATAs or are the price differences related to features?

You will get a measurable difference in voice quality if you don't use an ATA and use a SIP phone instead.
PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

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First, I agree with what drivel posted about IP phones.

Second, if you are having issues with your provider that have not been resolved you may want to start a new thread (topic) on that.
daveinpoway
Premium Member
join:2006-07-03
Poway, CA

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AT&T calls me all of the time, trying to get me to switch to U-Verse (which has a built-in phone service). Each time, I ask if the modem they provide is compatible with third-party VOIP services- they cannot/will not answer this simple question.

I have already read that the U-Verse equipment is not friendly to third-party VOIP, but I want to hear the answer directly from AT&T.

Trimline
Premium Member
join:2004-10-24
Windermere, FL

Trimline

Premium Member

As I understand it, the provided AT&T modems can be altered to allow third-party VoIP providers. I don't use AT&T, but there is a detailed write up here on how to "fix" them.

»www.pbxinaflash.com/comm ··· st-98367
bbear2
Premium Member
join:2003-10-06
dot.earth

bbear2

Premium Member

Nice write-up, thanks for the link.
drivel
join:2013-07-12
Santa Clara, CA

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Since many will not save any money by switching to voip it is bizarre that voip service providers primarily advertise how cheap their service is, rather than advertise how their service is better.
PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

PX Eliezer1

Premium Member

said by drivel:

Since many will not save any money by switching to voip it is bizarre that voip service providers primarily advertise how cheap their service is, rather than advertise how their service is better.

True but after the first year or so (sometimes sooner, sometimes a bit longer) the price of the cable company phone service [will] go up.

-----

As well, I've been saying for long time that price wars are destructive, that VoIP providers need to respect themselves just as women do.

Cheap hookups have their drawbacks in life and in telecom...

»Re: There is no point in participating in race to the bottom.

robbyglack
@50.243.146.x

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i often wonder why instead of pushing everyone to triple-play deals they may not find attractive the cable operators do not just sell internet for the same price as the triple-play and than through in the TV and phone for free. while the same thing in the end i would suspect there would be a much greater 'perceived value' to customers who get free phone and TV instead of paying for something they don't want.
OzarkEdge
join:2014-02-23
USA

OzarkEdge

Member

said by robbyglack :

i often wonder why instead of pushing everyone to triple-play deals they may not find attractive the cable operators do not just sell internet for the same price as the triple-play and than through in the TV and phone for free. while the same thing in the end i would suspect there would be a much greater 'perceived value' to customers who get free phone and TV instead of paying for something they don't want.

I'm fine with paying up a bit for Internet only. It's cheaper than a bundle and doesn't include stuff I don't want.

$46 COX 5/1Mbps (includes WatchESPN3 i.e. World Cup!)
$14 VoIP.ms (4 users, 3 locations, 1 account)
$0 OTA TV (~50 channels)
$0 fees/taxes
----
$60

What's in your bundle?

OE

robbyglack
@50.243.146.x

robbyglack

Anon

said by OzarkEdge:

said by robbyglack :

i often wonder why instead of pushing everyone to triple-play deals they may not find attractive the cable operators do not just sell internet for the same price as the triple-play and than through in the TV and phone for free. while the same thing in the end i would suspect there would be a much greater 'perceived value' to customers who get free phone and TV instead of paying for something they don't want.

I'm fine with paying up a bit for Internet only. It's cheaper than a bundle and doesn't include stuff I don't want.

$46 COX 5/1Mbps (includes WatchESPN3 i.e. World Cup!)
$14 VoIP.ms (4 users, 3 locations, 1 account)
$0 OTA TV (~50 channels)
$0 fees/taxes
----
$60

What's in your bundle?

OE

at home i have internet only for about the same price as the triple play with same speed. i choose that because i did not want to be responsible for the cable box i would never use(i have not owned a TVin 20 years) for my business it was actually cheaper every month with TV than without so i have a TV cable box in the closet that will never be removed from the box
Stewart
join:2005-07-13

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said by OzarkEdge:

What's in your bundle?

€33/mo. SFR

300/50 Mbps FTTH. It's advertised as "up to 1 Gbps" in newly-built areas. They claim that by year's end my address will be upgraded to 1000/200 Mbps at same cost.

Lowest phone package includes "unlimited" calling to 100+ countries (landlines only in most). It does not include France mobiles (for which I use Anveo Direct or Voxbeam). Unlimited calling to domestic mobiles would be €5 more.

Lowest TV package has no STB -- you must watch on computer, tablet, etc. €3 additional for STB with 500 GB DVR.

Of course, they try to sell you quadruple play, offering a €10 discount on above packages if you have their mobile service.

Prices are inclusive of equipment lease, fees, and taxes. Single and double play packages are simply not offered.

»adsl.sfr.fr/offres-et-ta ··· ifs.html
OzarkEdge
join:2014-02-23
USA

OzarkEdge

Member

said by Stewart:

%u20AC33/mo. SFR
300/50 Mbps FTTH.

Damn! $46! Something needs to change over here...

OE

robbyglack
@67.176.23.x

robbyglack

Anon

said by OzarkEdge:

said by Stewart:

%u20AC33/mo. SFR
300/50 Mbps FTTH.

Damn! $46! Something needs to change over here...

OE

and that's the top tier. basic cable, phone, internet is 10 euros(approx. $13.50)