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OzarkEdge
join:2014-02-23
USA

OzarkEdge to josephf

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to josephf

Re: Same cost for internet + phone service as without phone service

said by josephf:

Where are these arrestors physically placed on the lines?

... at the incoming demarcation point. The incoming landline terminates with house phone wiring in a box or on a block that has a ground conductor connection to earth ground... typically the same earth ground used by the electrical service panel.

The hope is for the HIGH VOLTAGE to short to earth ground before advancing further into your house.

When repurposing your house phone wiring for use with an ATA, it might be advisable to leave the defunct incoming landline still terminated to its earth ground protection.

OE

josephf
join:2009-04-26

josephf

Member

said by OzarkEdge:

When repurposing your house phone wiring for use with an ATA, it might be advisable to leave the defunct incoming landline still terminated to its earth ground protection.

By disconnecting the demarc from the inside wiring, wouldn't that itself be sufficient to prevent electricity from entering the home (as the inside wiring is no longer connected to the PSTN)?
Pufferty
Perpetual Newbie
join:2014-07-07
Rockville, MD

1 edit

Pufferty to PX Eliezer1

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to PX Eliezer1
You've got to be kidding. I knew Jason Findley. He was a town over. That's surreal.

Edit: I knew a different Jay Findley but he lived in Piscataway too! I just had goose bumps. What's the chances that id ask a question and the reported case is a town over from where I grew up?
Pufferty

Pufferty to josephf

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to josephf

Why would VOIPo care whether you BYOD and why would they restrict BYOD users from calling certain countries (that they don't restrict using their own ATA)?

Started reason is due to "fraud" but I was curious myself
OzarkEdge
join:2014-02-23
USA

OzarkEdge to josephf

Member

to josephf
said by josephf:

By disconnecting the demarc from the inside wiring, wouldn't that itself be sufficient to prevent electricity from entering the home (as the inside wiring is no longer connected to the PSTN)?

Given 'normal' high voltage, no current is likely to leap from a disconnected landline, but it would still be wise to give such a live wire a shunt to earth ground.

Abnormally HIGH VOLTAGE can route however it damn well pleases. We can only hope that it takes the hint and blows through the shunt to earth ground while still setting your house on fire. I figure the least one can do is encourage it to find the shortest route to earth ground, and not through a handset.

OE

josephf
join:2009-04-26

josephf

Member

But if you no longer have any active landline service AND you physically disconnect your inside wiring from the demarc (so you can connect your ATA to the inside wiring), there is no physical connection from the PSTN electricity to your home inside wiring (and from that to your analog telephone handset). How, then, is there any risk even via abnormally high voltage?
PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

PX Eliezer1

Premium Member

I would think that a very strong electrical charge such as lightning can easily jump a one-inch air gap between one screw terminal and another.

Think of a spark plug gap eg.

Even 'disconnects', or devices that physically switch off power to a device by activating a set of contacts, will not guarantee protection.

A small air gap will not stop a lightning bolt that has already jumped across miles of air. It won't think twice about jumping a few more inches, or even a few more feet, especially if the 'path of least resistance' to ground is across the contacts of the disconnect switch.

»stormhighway.com/surge_p ··· myth.php

OzarkEdge
join:2014-02-23
USA

OzarkEdge to josephf

Member

to josephf
said by josephf:

But if you no longer have any active landline service AND you physically disconnect your inside wiring from the demarc (so you can connect your ATA to the inside wiring), there is no physical connection from the PSTN electricity to your home inside wiring (and from that to your analog telephone handset). How, then, is there any risk even via abnormally high voltage?

Abnormally HIGH VOLTAGE can route however it damn well pleases. Even through air. If your defunct landline encounters accidental high voltage and/or lightning, some or all of this electrical energy can route into your house, following your landline to earth ground. If it has to jump a few more air gaps on the way, then it will be done. Ground your TV antenna; ground your lightning rods; and keep your landline grounded like it was according to Code (or remove it).

OE
Will Hill
join:2009-06-07

Will Hill

Member

Sprint now has plans available for as low as $10/month per line including unlimited minutes, text and 4 GB of data per line. (This example is with their new 10 lines, 20 GB shared plan plus an additional 2 GB per line for $100.) This includes customer service available by phone.

Verizon FiOS charges an additional $10 per month per FiOS unlimited voice line, on top of most FiOS internet and video plans. This includes customer service available by phone.

Unlimited BasicTalk costs $10/month. This includes customer service available by chat and e-mail.

Google Voice is free and can be used with an OBi device to replace a landline.

Pricing for voice telephone service, whether cellular or VoIP, has come down so low it is questionable if VoIP service will remain attractive to retail consumers if priced by the minute or for that matter priced much above a total in the single-digits dollars per month, considering the new competitive landscape.

Even if offered better support, American residential/retail consumers are more price sensitive than support sensitive. (Witness the lack of support options for most people's personal e-mail accounts; a somewhat critical service in most folks life line.) And considering most folks are cool with cellphone service even if it might have a comparably lower voice quality, at least prior to VoLTE, but a far greater mobility and portability for practical usage that a large proportion of the population is completely abandoning any landline-type service in favor of mobile phone service. The question then arises how much longer there will be a viable business service in providing stand-alone retail VoIP service when the price point is moving ever closer to zero or simply being thrown in as a free added service to consumers' internet service.
ramsaso
Premium Member
join:2014-01-04
Houston, TX
ARRIS SB6183

ramsaso

Premium Member

said by Will Hill:

American residential/retail consumers are more price sensitive than support sensitive.

:(Sigh.... if only they cared about call quality than price...

Odd thing is that people (cell phones only) are willing to pay ^$50 or so for poorly compressed call quality yet insist that it's cheaper than a landline(Yes. The "Real" landline) or VoIP at least to the people that I know.
PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

PX Eliezer1 to Will Hill

Premium Member

to Will Hill
said by Will Hill:

The question then arises how much longer there will be a viable business service in providing stand-alone retail VoIP service when the price point is moving ever closer to zero or simply being thrown in as a free added service to consumers' internet service.

My internet service is Optimum/Cablevision and I assure you that the phone service is not a "free add-on" except during the first year promo. After that Optimum Voice is 19.95 per month.

As far as FiOS, they wired half of my town, but not my half, and it's doubtful that FiOS will have any more expansion.

-----

Sprint is desperately trying to survive, they won't offer those gas-war prices forever.

BasicTalk is a loss-leader service for Vonage to try to compete with MagicJack. They have flat-out said this.

I wouldn't put my mom or wife or business on the Schrodinger Cat program called Google Voice with an Obi device. For that matter Google Voice is clearly headed for a metamorphosis.

-----

You are right in that millions of Americans are looking for the cheapest hookup, whether that be Sally in the park, or Magic Jack.

The fact that both Sally and MJ have lots of customers testifies to that.

But enough people DO want more than a cheap relationship, to enable the independent VoIP providers to survive.

And in fact, the average customer of FlowRoute or CallCentric or Anveo, is MORE knowledgeable than the average customer of Vonage, and FAR MORE knowledgeable than the average customer of MagicJack or NetTalk.

They already know the score, they have already made their decisions....
bodosom
Leger de main
Premium Member
join:2004-03-05
WNY/Niagara
ARRIS SB6183
Ubiquiti EdgeRouter X
pfSense SG-2220

bodosom to Will Hill

Premium Member

to Will Hill
That's not true here, it's always cheaper to unbundle, and the low prices are just for the first year (or two) in any case.

Time Warner used to offer a complete (limited area) phone service that included a dedicated adapter if you wanted for $10/mo. They dropped that. I think because no one with a mobile phone would buy their $20/mo unlimited plan if there was a cheaper alternative.
Pufferty
Perpetual Newbie
join:2014-07-07
Rockville, MD

Pufferty to PX Eliezer1

Member

to PX Eliezer1
said by PX Eliezer1:

My internet service is Optimum

Having been a subscriber to Optimum as well (and am so glad that I no longer am), I can confirm that what you are saying is true. However, FiOS does provide it for free for the duration of the contract, so there is definitely a move to making this sorry if service "free".

God, Optimum was so, so awful - its the only thing I don't miss about NJ.
CatsEyeX
Premium Member
join:2014-08-20
Alviso, CA

CatsEyeX to Will Hill

Premium Member

to Will Hill
When I got Charter cable and Internet in St. Louis about a year ago, the package was $0.01 cheaper if I took the phone service too. I took it but never actually used it.

I had Vonage at the time and wanted to port my phone number from Vonage to Charter to save the $35 per month I was paying Vonage. But Charter said they could not port the number because they were in different rate centers, even though the rate centers would have been about 5 miles apart in St. Louis.
dutchtender
join:2010-11-21
Sunnyvale, CA

dutchtender to OzarkEdge

Member

to OzarkEdge
it totally depends on the competitive landscape in the local territory. it also depends on regulatory bodies in the local territory. where I live in USA it's a double whammy. little competition combined with burdensome regulations that prevent the provider from offering higher speeds. the result is i am paying around $60 per month for 25Mbs down and about 4Mbs up. comcast has this market virtually to itself and the regulators in my county have their foot on comcast neck.

comcast gets "real" when it has competition in the local territory. FIOS is competition and google fiber is competition. ATT not so much. Google fiber is really only in a few markets in USA, and it is slow to come to new ones. It's not really on the radar unless you are lucky enough live in a city that google has chosen.

there is a lot of thought that goes into how cable prices their product. the pricing is designed to entice you into buying bundles of two and three services at once. they do this because you become a stickier customer, a better customer for them. It's tougher for you to move off the service if you have move 3 services. The providers do not like to sell internet access unbundled, and thus price accordingly.

Pfifios
@91.227.222.x

Pfifios

Anon

I have internet-only cable 20/10 for $45 per month. I bought a TV for $400 after not having had one for 10 years, and a windgard powered antenna for $80.

I pay about $6 per month payg for around 300 minutes of phone use including 911, and get 16 digital channels on the TV (I had never seen a digital channel. It is amazing how it is either crystal-clear or nothing. With the old analog channels, I would fiddle forever with the rabbit ears to minimize the ghosting and snow). Movies I download from torrent sites and watch them on the computer's monitor or burn them to cd to watch on the tv via my old Walmart DVD player.

I realize that I live in the slow lane, but the idea of buying a 'bundle' from a cable company seems bizarrely wasteful to me.