dslreports logo
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc
Search similar:


uniqs
57803

dullroar
@173.17.250.x

1 recommendation

dullroar

Anon

Stay away from the Surfboard SBG6782-ACH combo modem/router

I can't say what I really think about this product without breaking into profanity.

Experience: I have been a programmer for 28 years, on the internet since 1995, using cable for internet connectivity since 1999. I have flashed the firmware (OpenWRT, Tomato) on multiple routers from multiple vendors over the years and configured them for a household with over 30 devices between six people (really), and telecommuted from home for years at a time. I say all that just to say I am not new to this. Now, on to the screed, er, review.

First, what's right - the specs. It is a DOCSIS 3.0 modem with a 802.11 AC wireless/gigabit wired router. It set up OK and activation through my cable provider (Mediacom) was painless. When it is working I can get 86Mbps down and 10Mbps up through it according to Speedtest (I am on a 100Mb plan).

Now, what's wrong - the firmware. My hope in purchasing this was to get rid of a flaky, rented DOCSIS 2.0 modem and a Netgear router running Tomato firmware and merge both functions into one device. So much for that. I've ended up running the old Netgear router behind the Surfboard just to have a reliable router back. The Surfboard's firmware (it is on version SBG6X82-8.4.0.0-GA-05-809-NOSH) is not user-upgradable (because it's a cable modem and apparently the cable providers have to push it out). And while Cox and Xfinity are pushing updates for it, Mediacom isn't. Which means things like being able to set DNS in the router is unavailable (that's fixed in a later firmware version that my cable company isn't pushing out). So I can't set it to provide OpenDNS to DHCP clients in the house (which we use for filtering what sites the teens get to).

The web interface is SLOW and FLAKY, and often the admin screens just won't paint and you have to hit Refresh in the browser multiple times, or close the browser completely and login again. Sometimes I can't access the web interface AT ALL via wired or wireless connection. And speaking of wireless, the connectivity comes and goes, even when in the same room with it. Sometimes I have to reset the modem to get wireless working again, or to be able to access the admin screens. And if you have any sort of sophisticated needs in terms of configuring your router, forget it. This is a toy in terms of firewall settings, access rights, etc.

I bought this from a store that rhymes with Guest Guy, and missed the deadline for returning it. Bummer. Now it is basically a super-expensive cable modem sitting in front of another router, because its router is completely unusable.

DO NOT BUY THIS DEVICE! YOU WILL BE OUT $200 AND YOU WILL BE SAD! You were warned. Maybe the plain Surfboard cable modem without a router is good, but I wouldn't recommend this combo to an enemy.
davidhoffman
Premium Member
join:2009-11-19
Warner Robins, GA

4 recommendations

davidhoffman

Premium Member

Being an experienced programmer does not make one an experienced network administrator. But, I am somewhat surprised that in all your years you did not notice that the big corporate or enterprise network administrators use separate devices to handle separate functions. You do not see modem and router/switch combinations in those environments. You see an independent modem feeding into a switch. Connected to that switch are independent access points. It can get more elaborate than that. Independent modem feeding independent firewall feeding independant switch feeding independent wireless controller feeding individual access points.

On a smaller scale, there have been numerous articles and posts on various forums and websites for several years saying to not get combination modem/routers as they have a higher failure rate per hour, and are more frustrating to use. How did you miss all of those web pages of advice? There was a time when Motorola was only allowing cable companies to supply the plain 8 downstream channel and 4 upstream channel bonding modems. You had to buy a gateway combination in retail if you wanted Motorola 8x4 channel bonding. When the Motorola white case 8x4 plain modems(6141 white case) were allowed for retail, people started happily buying them at a steady rate.

»www.amazon.com/ARRIS-Mot ··· 0AJHDZSI

»www.bestbuy.com/site/mot ··· p=1&lp=1

I recently advised a friend to get a white case SB6141, as a replacement for an old single channel Motorola modem, to take advantage of the ISP's DOCSIS 3.0 channel bonding. My friend wanted to make the cable company replace the rented modem equipment, but all they would supply were combination gateway devices from Cisco. I told my friend to keep her top of the line, functioning fine, Linksys router and find the money to go out and buy her own modem. I also told her she would save money in the long run without the modem rental charge.

I used to have those 2Wire 2701 DSL combination gateways. They were constantly failing do to overheating. Bad design, bad engineering, and poor quality manufacturing. I switched to separate router and modem. I have had no failures for a few years. Several reboots, but the hardware has lasted.

Stay separate. The white case SB6141 should serve you well as a modem. Find a nice new router that you can set up the way you want.

Mike Wolf
join:2009-05-24
Tuckerton, NJ

4 edits

1 recommendation

Mike Wolf to dullroar

Member

to dullroar
I have to vehemently disagree. The SBG6872 is a good product which tons of people happily use every single day without a problem, and you shouldn't be condemning it because the people at Medicom are idiots and not offering the firmware updates which brings increased performance and stability and that will permit you to change the DNS and other settings you've listed. Quite frankly I think you're making a fool of yourself and that you're uninformed. What you should be doing is bitching at Medicacom to push out the firmware updates for that increased performance. As davidhoffman pointed out, there have been numerous articles and posts even on this very forum warning about using all in one devices, and for you who claims to have been flashing firmware and programming and such all these years to still purchase an all in one calls into question the legitimacy of your claims of "experience" and possibly your entire post.
In short, don't judge the product for bad firmware. Any product can have problems if the firmware is bad enough just like the same product can be amazing with the right firmware.

Johkal
Cool Cat
MVM
join:2002-11-13
Pennsyltucky

Johkal

MVM

You are responding to a topic from last year: 2014-Jul-19 8:08 am

mackey
Premium Member
join:2007-08-20

1 recommendation

mackey to Mike Wolf

Premium Member

to Mike Wolf
Yeah, it's not Motorola's fault they're a firm believer in "ship it now, fix it later." Just because a device doesn't have user updateable firmware doesn't mean it must work out of the box or anything. It's the cable co's fault for not paying Motorola thousands of dollars to fix Motorola's bad firmware to make Motorola's customers happy.
awdtt
join:2015-06-09

1 recommendation

awdtt to dullroar

Member

to dullroar
As a retired networking and security software engineer myself, I must agree with the OP on this one. My SBG6782-AC is running 8.6 firmware and it's not much better than 8.4. The reason I bought this modem was because if offered built-in MoCA. I have 7 TVs, a TiVo Roamio Plus, 6 Minis and a bunch of computers, phones, and a NAS. The TiVo equipment does a poor job of establishing sessions between devices (TiVo seems to prefer WPA-TKIP, not AES, and it's not configurable). We were not able to get the MLB.tv or OnDemand apps to run on any TiVo device, instead running into the mystical V301 error -- basically, no response to a TCP SYN. This went on for 18 months with TiVo, Comcast, and MLB.tv all pointing fingers. A guy named "Bo" at TiVo gave me a clue that put me on to buying a modem that ran MoCA, in order to get rid of the encryption issue.

With the SBG6782-AC, the built-in MoCA immediately solved my MLB.tv and OnDemand problem. They load and run smooth as butter. But when I got down to securing the modem, I was pretty disappointed at how crude its firmware is. The overall functional design of the firmware is poorly thought out.

The reason for the slow web page loading is because if you configure the firewall to "Low" security (the first level of security above, "Here's my network, would you like the root password?"), when a LAN-side device hits a web page -- let's say CNN.com that carries lots of embedded graphics, videos, and IFRAMES, not to mention the 20+ trackers, the LAN-side browser requests all of these in a short period of time, and the modem thinks it's a LAN-side flood (DoS). So, it throttles that client for a number of seconds.

And, there's no way to tell the modem to ignore LAN-side "floods" because the modem does not permit an admin to differentiate LAN->WAN and WAN->LAN. The same problem exists for port filtering. So, you can't configure the modem to allow connections on any LAN->WAN ports but deny all WAN->LAN connections. You get 4 levels of security, and each level allows connections to a finite, but progressively smaller set of LAN->WAN ports.

There is "Port Filtering", but it only denies ranges of ports. Inbound and outbound. There is no "LAN->WAN, WAN->LAN, Both" drop down, nor is there a "Grant/Deny" toggle to allow you to lock everything down except a specific port or vice versa.

So, the only way to get web pages to load blazingly fast when your Speedtest says 82 down, is to turn off the firewall and add a firewall on the LAN side that *can* do these simple tasks.

But there is still a big security hole. The MoCA devices are on the same subnet as the modem's LAN subnet, so when you turn off the firewall, you expose your TiVo equipment. Don't laugh, with DNS poisoning as prevalent as it is, it wouldn't be a stretch to have your TiVo box bricked or having a worm find its way from one device to another, bricking them all.

I found a few other out-and-out bugs as well as blatantly incorrect documentation errors -- too many to mention. I also didn't really care for Arris' support policy of charging $30 to report issues.

I wouldn't say "Don't buy it." because it works for a lot of people. Just not for me or my family. I'm searching for another solution and will be sending this modem back to Best Buy as soon as I find one.

yepmyname
@cox.net

1 recommendation

yepmyname

Anon

Just wanted to chime in here as I found this thread searching for help on why my SB6782 has to be reset on average 12 times a week. I am not a network or IT guy by any means but know my way around enough to know when it is a modem/router issue. I am on Cox, FYI. OP is right - this thing is a piece of junk.

Mike Wolf
join:2009-05-24
Tuckerton, NJ

Mike Wolf

Member

Gotta disagree here, it's probably a configuration issue ith Cox or in need of a firmware update. Since you haven't explained why you need to reset so often or posted the issue on the Cox forum for support, I would take what your saying with a grain of salt.

yepmyname
@cox.net

1 recommendation

yepmyname

Anon

As OP mentioned, I have no control over firmware as it must be pushed by Cox but have in fact checked to make sure it does have the latest they've made available. Your vehement opposition to anyone who has a problem with this device, and your rudeness to OP ("I think you're making a fool of yourself and that you're uninformed.") makes me question your true intent and care very little what you think. As numerous other people have mentioned issues with this POS in this thread, I would think that is enough salt for anybody who isn't a shill for Motorola.

Mike Wolf
join:2009-05-24
Tuckerton, NJ

3 edits

Mike Wolf

Member

There are a lot more people who have this modem that aren't experiencing a problem compared to the minuscule amount that are. There would have been many more complaints over a long period of time if it truly was a modem problem. Every product has it's ups and downs and of course every case is different. What works for some may not work for others but that isn't justification to make a blanket statement that the product as a whole is no good. Sometimes an issue can be fixed with a simple firmware update, sometimes not, and just because a provider isn't offering that update yet doesn't mean it's the fault of the modem.
If you cared so little of what I think you wouldn't be responding. I'm sorry you feel that way, and your entitled to your view, as am I. Opinions are the spice of life and without it, things would be a lot more boring. I'll leave you with that, take care.
JWBoulder9
join:2015-05-24
Boulder, CO

2 edits

1 recommendation

JWBoulder9 to dullroar

Member

to dullroar
I must agree with the OP.

I purchased the SBG6782-AC for use with my Comcast 105Mbps service and it has been a nightmare. Once provisioned, the modem worked properly for about a week. It tested consistently at 120Mbps during that period. Then, for no apparent reason, the speed dropped precipitously to 60Mbps AND the modem web page UI became inaccessible ("CONNECTION REFUSED" via Chrome). I had Comcast out on two separate occasions. Each time they did a hard reset (power off, coax disconnected, power on, reset button for 30+ seconds, power off, reconnect coax, power on). Following this procedure, the modem works at full speed (120Mbps) and the UI is accessible. Within a few minutes , Comcast downloads new firmware - modem still works correctly. After 1-2 hours, the modem again reverts to half speed (60Mbps) and the UI is again inaccessible (as above). Each time, Comcast has verified that the boot file is correct for my 105Mbps speed. I've now been through four of these processes (2 by Comcast, 2 by me) with the same result each time. Called Arris support, they blamed it on Comcast, but had no suggestions.

I've ordered a Netgear C6300 to replace this modem.
JWBoulder9

1 recommendation

JWBoulder9

Member

Here's an update on the problems I was having with the Arris SBG6782-AC modem/router:

After multiple calls/visits from Comcast and multiple calls with Arris, I finally determined (on my own) that the problem was caused by the Comcast Home security system which I had installed along with X1 and this new modem.

Turns out the NETGEAR wireless router Comcast installs for their Home security devices uses the IP range 192.168.100.x for its DHCP. At the same time, the Arris SBG6782-AC modem/router uses address 192.168.100.1 as an alternate IP to access its web page menu, which is normally accessed via 192.168.0.1.

This conflict resulted in three problems:

1) Attempting to access the modem UI via 192.168.0.1 resulted in a message (from Chrome) of "ERR_ACCESS_REJECTED".

2) Attempting to access the modem UI via 192.168.100.1 resulted in a popup requesting User ID and Password and noting the following" "Server reports Pace Microtechnology plc". Turn out that the "Pace" reference is from the NETGEAR wireless router or another of the Comcast Home devices (touch pad, camera, etc.)

3) Once this condition sets in (within an hour of Arris modem factory reset), the speed of my 105Mbps service is reduced by one-half. Normal tested speed when working correctly is consistently 125+Mbps with this modem. When degraded with this problem, speed is consistently 60Mbps.

Solution ...

Changed the IP address range for DHCP on the Arris SBC6782-AC to 10.0.0.1-255 to avoid the conflict with the Comcast Home network. In this mode, the Arris modem UI is accessible via 10.0.0.1 or 10.0.100.1. All three problems above disappear.

Looking back, I felt that both Comcast and Arris spent most of their support time with me blaming each other. The most infuriating instance was after telling Comcast that my 105Mbps speed had been reduced by one-half - and they couldn't come up with a solution - their next comment to me was "60Mbps - that's fast enough. What are you doing that you need a faster speed?". Pointing out that I was paying for 105Mbps didn't seem to matter.

My apologies for my earlier negative comments on the SBG6782-AC. My error. The modem works fine and gives a faster-than-contracted speed.

yepmyname
@cox.net

yepmyname to yepmyname

Anon

to yepmyname
An update to my situation: After trying to deal with the issues I was having, I ran into the same problem mentioned above, essentially going round and round on the blame carousel between Cox and Motorola. I broke down and ordered hardware directly from Cox assuming they would offer the gear that they have the best success/support for. I received an Ubee unit (which I had never heard of), and lo and behold not only have I been up consistently since, my speeds are noticeably faster.

I suppose the moral of the story here, for me anyway, is sometimes it doesn't pay to try and be ahead of the technology curve. I went out and bought the SBG6782 as soon as Cox began supporting DOCSIS 3.0 so that I could immediately take advantage, and it ended up costing me. I am not fully blaming this unit for my problems, as it very likely was a configuration issue, but I will say that support wasn't eager to really help solve anything, and Cox was adamant it was a hardware issue.

I will say that I have noticed quite a few complaints about this unit during my search for a solution. In regard to comments here, yes I am sure there are many people who have not had any issues, and yay for them, but that doesn't negate the issues that people, like me, ARE having. I find it ridiculous to think that it is somehow my fault that I am having an issue, and that I am an A-hole for mentioning it, even if I am not fully aware of the cause. Could it have been a Cox issue? Possibly. All I know is that my performance was horrible, and therefore I am going to put blame, at least partially, on the hardware. So I guess if you want to argue semantics, I will say "MY" SBG6782 was a POS. You may get lucky if you get one... or not, but the one I got never worked properly, regardless of whose fault it was.

Jc
@myvzw.com

Jc to dullroar

Anon

to dullroar
After spending over 6 hrs trying to get this thing to work correctly (having a repetitive pattern of flashing lights that turned white (apparently not suppose to do that and later having an Arris tech tell me "they must have been blue- they just look white" despite the fact that I later saw them blue and know the difference) and having it set off my TiVo plus into a crazy loop of reboots and tantrums (until I unplugged it from the Ethernet), and having a terrible time getting the TiVo to work with it, it finally started working- BUT, it kept kicking my son offline with his PS3 even when nothing was really on it yet- the TiVo was off because it wasn't working with it yet and I disconnected the Ethernet from it ( I had to pick up my daughter and only his iPad and PS3 were on it). Anyway, after a factory reset, and bad arris tech advice (I asked him if I should unplug the TiVo while the modem "updated" which sent the modem into a continuous cycle of the modem trying to restart, (with the white lights on the send and receive lights), (the tech said it shouldn't matter) and put me on hold to investigate the white lights- I decided on my own to unplug the TiVo and it stopped trying to restart. Then I had to deal with the TiVo being messed up. Anyway, Comcast signals were above 50 and all others were optimal. When I called Arris again for guidance on the PS3 they had no info on how PS might have hiccups with their product!!!! Despite the modem being advertised for gaming. Told me to call Sony! "Maybe they know if ports need to be opened". Um, no, if you can't help your customers by figuring out how your product can work better with main stream HUGE products, then obviously you don't care. Taking it back. Please listen to the man in this post. He is right.
Jc

Jc to awdtt

Anon

to awdtt
Agree with your post. What modem did you choose? Any suggestions now?
awdtt
join:2015-06-09

1 recommendation

awdtt

Member

I originally bought the SBG6782-AC because the original Comcast-supplied modem was blocking outbound ports even though the security settings stated "Allow all outbound WAN ports". I expected the Arris modem to behave differently, but all of the negative side effects I found, I needed to find a solution.

What I ended up doing was disabling the firewall and ditching the MoCA controller section on the SBG6782 and connecting a Netgear FVS318N to LAN Port 1 of the SBG. A POE filter is positioned outside of a cable signal amplifier. The modem is connected to the amplifier on one out port, and a 2.4 GHz splitter is connected to another out port. The TiVo boxes talk to each other through the 2.4GHz splitter in order to enable D1-D8 MoCA comms.

All LAN->WAN network traffic from computers, TiVo, VoIP and cell phones flows through the firewall. It took some time to glean all of the outbound ports because some equipment, such as VoIP phones, use different ports at different times. I was able to come up with a set of outbound rules that works for all of the network applications.

Truth be known, I could have simply turned off the Comcast "firewall", and added the Netgear FVS318N, but that modem doesn't support DOCSIS 3.0. So there is an advantage to the Arris setup. Unlike other posters, I'm seeing much better performance with this configuration. My suggestion would be to use a 2.4GHz splitter for all TiVo equipment and add a POE filter at the demarkation point. Then, see how things work. I would not rely on the SBG MoCA controller, since it's not clear that modem provides any security to the TiVo equipment.

No_Body
@cox.net

No_Body to awdtt

Anon

to awdtt

Re: Solution for Surfboard SBG6782-ACH combo modem/router: slow page loads

RE: "The reason for the slow web page loading is because if you configure the firewall to "Low" security (the first level of security above, "Here's my network, would you like the root password?"), when a LAN-side device hits a web page -- let's say CNN.com that carries lots of embedded graphics, videos, and IFRAMES, not to mention the 20+ trackers, the LAN-side browser requests all of these in a short period of time, and the modem thinks it's a LAN-side flood (DoS). So, it throttles that client for a number of seconds."

ME:
I've had Motorola SURFboard® SBG6782-AC for awhile now; bought it with high expectations; Cox provides Internet; subscribe to Cox Premier service; found this forum while seeking insight regarding very long delays loading complex web pages (MorningStar, CNN, NBCNews, etc.) to the point of time-outs. Browser gets stuck in "connecting" and "resolving host" states instead of loading the web page.

Finally, I found something that makes sense with the above post, *AND* appears to work as a solution. See helpful article http://routerguide.net/ip-flood-detection-enable-or-disable-firewall-option/

I'm a home user; I do not host a web server; the routerguide.net article helped me understand that I don't need IP Flood Detection/Protection, and that having it can slow down loading of complex web pages due to false triggers of IP Flood Protection resulting from simultaneous loading of many active embeds in such pages.

I turned off IP Flood Detection in the Surfboard SBG6782-AC; see immediate and marked improvement in loading complex web pages; now have "human-instant" page loading, even with the worst performer, that being MorningStar stock quotes.

See Firewall/Protection Level configuration page in the Surfboard's admin web interface.

Hope this helps!

- NoBody

JamesWD
@comcast.net

JamesWD to Mike Wolf

Anon

to Mike Wolf

Re: Stay away from the Surfboard SBG6782-ACH combo modem/router

I have to agree with Mike, its August 2015 still the best price for what MOST of HOME User NEED. Business, this Does NOT Apply, You Technicians Should Know THAT. More than 5 devices on a home network needs a $$ upgraded network system. I live in a small one story home, the 5ghz AC is Extremely better than paying for a Modem, and a Separate wifi router in almost every normal American home. GEEKS however, If you are a Geek with a Good paying Job, do whatever you feel is best. Geeks who are just geeks and funemployed a Wireless Access Point or USB Wifi Dongle that is N or AC will still be fine to work with this Motorola. I'm using a $2 usb-n adapter as I write this, this couldn't happen for me two years ago. This router has been at Best Buy for a long time, Comcast uses this router family as their best leased Voip Wifi modem and I paid for it for the last 2-3 years. Kick my self being a college student and not jumping on my own router then, as still the price for this modem is around $200. I jumped on this when I saw it $50 off. The future for Wifi, Batteries, everything is a technological speed demon, but as we all know we SHOULD be seeing better stuff in 2015 but its all about the Benjamins which rule what gets made and pushes global warming. ;^)

JeffIsGreat
@comcast.net

JeffIsGreat

Anon

I setup the SBG6782-AC in my home today. Setup was a little slow but fair for 2am. It replaces my old Comcast cable modem & a Netgear 3700 router. On Sppedtest.net my download went from 13mbps to 60mbps which is excellent! My upload however went from 3mbps to nothing. Nada. Upload never even completes on my laptop (AC) & on my Galaxy Note 4 is shows 0.56mbps upload. What happened?
I disabled WMM Quality of Service (QoS) & rebooted but the only change this made was reduce my download form 60mbps down to 29mbps & still no upload. There is not an OpenDNS setting as some of suggested.
I am pretty green but can usually find the answer through research & setting trial & error. I have been looking for hours now & have other stuff to do (new baby, post partum wife, etc). ANY help is appreciated.

Napsterbater
Meh
MVM
join:2002-12-28
Milledgeville, GA
(Software) OPNsense
Ubiquiti UniFi UAP-AC-PRO

Napsterbater

MVM

said by JeffIsGreat :

I disabled WMM Quality of Service (QoS)

Do Not disable WMM on 802.11n or higher, it is REQUIRED for proper operation of .11n and .11ac networks. If it is disabled clients are supposed to fall back to G.