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nunya
LXI 483
MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
·Charter

2 recommendations

nunya to iknow_t

MVM

to iknow_t

Re: [HVAC] Re: Ac compressor and fan acting up

When I grew up, lots of people didn't have air conditioning. Those that did used it sparingly. This was in the Midwest (Illinois) with harsh bitter Winter and hot, humid Summer.

Nobody's house was suddenly overgrown with mold. Hell, unless it's over 90, I rarely run my AC. It's too damn expensive. Most of the time it's windows open and attic fan running.

makeupmuch
@69.118.94.x

makeupmuch to iknow_t

Anon

to iknow_t
said by iknow_t:

said by lolwutnoa :

There is no good reason to leave an ac running all day... well you have too much money and want to give it to the poco.

that's totally absurd. some areas are so damp that you'd have inches of mold growing in your house if it's not dried up by the AC. houses have not been built that are designed to be used without AC for many decades, even then, leaving windows and doors open to ventilate isn't safe anymore, and they still had to do major cleaning to get rid of mold buildup.. also, it can take hours to cool down a house if left off, so there's no savings.. times have changed..

lol, so maybe you can tell me why everything is not COVERED in mold in those areas then? After all it's that bad lol. No ventilation causes those issues... if that was the case every power outage over 12hours would cause the house to be inhabitable. After all you said we can't not run the ac all day.

I'd love to know what has changed in design where an ac is REQUIRED and opening the windows does not work.

In no world that follows our laws of physics is there no savings turning off the ac.

Same as Turing off the heat (or lowering) in the winter, in no way does that not save energy. No matter how much you must raise the temp money was saved.

It's the EXACT principle behind setbacks, that's just a larger setback.

Corehhi
join:2002-01-28
Bluffton, SC

1 recommendation

Corehhi to boutselis

Member

to boutselis

Re: [HVAC] Ac compressor and fan acting up

I grew up in up state NY and we had no AC. House is still there and not filled with mold. I now live in a place that has mold every where and I have been in buildings that are 300 years old and they didn't have AC till recently. Guess what they weren't destroyed by mold either.

Okay kids.
Lead paint??? I grew up with the stuff on everything. Good idea? NO. Will kill you or otherwise do much to you??? No unless you eat paint chips.

Asbestos??? Grew up with that too. Will it kill you etc. etc. No. Good idea to have around the house? No but unless you worked in a factory and dealt with loose fibers every day then it's not a problem.

Mold???? Where I live it's a part of life it is everywhere. Do people die from it?? No. Does it fill houses and public buildings?? No. Does it grow on shaded areas of just about anything?? Yes. I can show you buildings and house that are 100, 200, 300 years old, have they just been run over by mold?? No.

DKS
Damn Kidney Stones

join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON

1 recommendation

DKS to lolwutnoa

to lolwutnoa

Re: [HVAC] Re: Ac compressor and fan acting up

said by lolwutnoa :

There is no good reason to leave an ac running all day... well you have too much money and want to give it to the poco.

There is. It evens out the load on the system. And it makes zero difference in hydro consumed. I tried it two years in a row; no change in hydro usage. In fact, one summer, it was cheaper. The key is a programmable thermostat. And good curtains.
DKS

1 recommendation

DKS to makeupmuch

to makeupmuch
said by makeupmuch :

Same as Turing off the heat (or lowering) in the winter, in no way does that not save energy. No matter how much you must raise the temp money was saved.

It's the EXACT principle behind setbacks, that's just a larger setback.

Actually, that is not true. There is a point where if you setback your furnace too much, it costs just as much to heat up the house (or more) than if it did to leave it at a particular temp.
DKS

1 recommendation

DKS to Corehhi

to Corehhi

Re: [HVAC] Ac compressor and fan acting up

said by Corehhi:

Mold???? Where I live it's a part of life it is everywhere. Do people die from it?? No. Does it fill houses and public buildings?? No. Does it grow on shaded areas of just about anything?? Yes. I can show you buildings and house that are 100, 200, 300 years old, have they just been run over by mold?? No.

Sorry, that's just not true. I work in a 100 year old building. There is mould. Lots of it. It creates a certain funky smell.

Ghastlyone
Premium Member
join:2009-01-07
Nashville, TN

1 recommendation

Ghastlyone to lolwutnoa

Premium Member

to lolwutnoa

Re: [HVAC] Re: Ac compressor and fan acting up

said by lolwutnoa :

There is no good reason to leave an ac running all day... well you have too much money and want to give it to the poco.

Try turning that shit off out here in the desert when its 110-115 degrees outside.

Yeah..you'll be turning it back on within 20min.

Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium Member
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30

Doctor Olds to mackey

Premium Member

to mackey
said by mackey:

+1 to the capacitor. It's a small silver cylinder/oval and is a $30 part.

I replaced mine 2 months ago (3 terminal dual Start/Run capacitor) and it was $13 dollars at the local HVAC and Appliance parts store called Fox Appliance Parts. »www.foxatlanta.com

This is their catalog. »70.168.42.43/fox_atl_wda.htm

Here is the type in this how/to guide.
»www.paulstravelpictures. ··· t-Guide/
boutselis
join:2014-07-12

1 recommendation

boutselis to lolwutnoa

Member

to lolwutnoa
I'm not sure where you live but here in central florida during the summer if you leave your ac off during the day you'll come home to a 90 degree house with 70% or more humidity. then when you turn your ac on it will run non stop for 4 or 5 hours to cool the house down. its much better to let it cycle on and off the way its supposed to
boutselis

boutselis to Doctor Olds

Member

to Doctor Olds
there is a black round capacitor that says kick start 3.5 to 5 hp.and is bundled together with some wires by a zip tie and there is another that is silver, it has various numbers on it, and it is more permanently strapped to the body of the unit with a metal band.

neither of them are bulging.
Can a hard start capacitor be bad intermittently? Or is the unit starting without it some time by luck and not starting other times?

robbin
Mod
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX

robbin

Mod

The hard start is for the compressor. I thought you were having problems with the fan not starting. If so, then replace the silver one and see if it makes any difference.
boutselis
join:2014-07-12

boutselis

Member

What I see happening is , or hear happening, is the compressor seems like its trying to start. while thats going on the fan also seems like its trying to start. the compressor will hum and the fan will make a few revolutions and then stop. and a few seconds later the fan will try again. the fan will keep doing that while the compressor is humming. by the time the compressor stops humming there is a good amount of heat that has developed.

also:

I'm not certain if the humming is the compressor working or just trying to start . I wonder if the compressor might be starting and shuts down because the fan isn't always on and it over heats and there is some sort of thermal protection.
neither of the capacitors feel hot during this whole cycle. (not sure if that matters)

The one tech that looked at it said everything checked out but there IS something wrong to be sure.

Can the capacitor work some times and not other times? Can it be bad intermittently?

I really appreciate you guys trying to help me. thanks

Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium Member
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30

Doctor Olds to boutselis

Premium Member

to boutselis
said by boutselis:

Can a hard start any capacitor be bad intermittently? Or is the unit starting without it some time by luck and not starting other times?

Yes as heat and age can affect any capacitor's ratings. Use a DMM (Digital Multi-Meter) to check the ohms.
boutselis
join:2014-07-12

boutselis

Member

I am assuming there is an ohms rating label on the capacitor and the ohms should be within that listed range.

I just figured out I have status lights, I saw a green diode and a red diode in the dark.

the problem is the panel says yellow alerts flash code 1,2,3 and so on. but there is no yellow light. the status light is always either solid red, or blinking red.

it is solid red when the compressor is of
and
its solid red when its on and cooling the house just fine.

when its trying to start it blinks 5 times (if it were 5 yellow blinks would mean open circuit)
after it stops trying to start it then blinks 7 time (if it were 7 yellow blinks it would mean open run circuit-current only in run circuit)

shdesigns
Powered By Infinite Improbabilty Drive
Premium Member
join:2000-12-01
Stone Mountain, GA
(Software) pfSense
ARRIS SB6121

shdesigns to Doctor Olds

Premium Member

to Doctor Olds
said by Doctor Olds:

Yes as heat and age can affect any capacitor's ratings. Use a DMM (Digital Multi-Meter) to check the ohms.

Huh? The only thing an ohm meter will be able to tell you is if the cap is not shorted. No way to measure it capacitance unless it has a capacitance range.

mackey
Premium Member
join:2007-08-20

mackey

Premium Member

said by wrongagain :

Please stop posting incorrect information.

Right back at you.

Any hits returned in a google search is a meaningless comparison as there are 10000 variables and what's true up in Main will not be relevant to Florida.

Delta T is far from the only thing affecting energy usage. In a modern, well insulated and sealed house the difference between leaving it running and setting it back/off will be negligible, but in an old place with almost no insulation and lots of gaps/cracks setting it back might save quite a bit. Also when talking heat the type of heat makes a big difference - if you have a heat pump you do NOT want to set it back as when it goes to warm the place back up it needs to use the electricity guzzling auxiliary electric heat strips to do so, thereby using WAY more then whatever you saved by setting it back.

/M
boutselis
join:2014-07-12

boutselis

Member

I am assuming there is an ohms rating label on the capacitor and the ohms should be within that listed range.
Seeing everything has seemed to have gone off course I reposted this because I really need help.

I just figured out I have status lights, I saw a green diode and a red diode in the dark.

the problem is the panel says yellow alerts flash code 1,2,3 and so on. but there is no yellow light. the status light is always either solid red, or blinking red.

it is solid red when the compressor is of
and
its solid red when its on and cooling the house just fine.

on the times when its trying to start but can't it blinks 5 times (if it were 5 yellow blinks would mean open circuit)
after it stops trying to start and shuts itself down it then blinks 7 times (if it were 7 yellow blinks it would mean open run circuit-current only in run circuit)

mackey
Premium Member
join:2007-08-20

mackey

Premium Member

said by boutselis:

I am assuming there is an ohms rating label on the capacitor and the ohms should be within that listed range.

No, a capacitor is rated in Farads (or microfarads or picofarads) not ohms. An ohm reading is not going to tell you anything.

What is the model # of this unit?

/M

Boooost
@151.190.40.x

Boooost to boutselis

Anon

to boutselis
Capacitors are cheap. They don't last forever. Yes, they can fail intermittently, or, more likely, they're marginal for starting the motor so sometimes the motor starts and sometimes the motor doesn't. They can be bad without signs of bulging.

I had a bad capacitor that would fail to the start the compressor the first time in the morning, then the rest of the day it was fine. It did that every day.

Forget trying to test the capacitor. Just because your meter says it's fine doesn't mean it will be good enough for the motor to start.

Bottom line: Replace both capacitors (or however many you have). Problem solved.

While you're in there, check out the contactor and make sure the contacts are clean and not pitted.

Ghastlyone
Premium Member
join:2009-01-07
Nashville, TN

Ghastlyone to boutselis

Premium Member

to boutselis

Re: [HVAC] Ac compressor and fan acting up

FWIW...I've gotten exactly 5 years out of two different capacitors now. I just replaced the second one last year along with my fan motor. The motor I got exactly 10 years of life.

I ordered all of them on Grainger for pretty cheap.
boutselis
join:2014-07-12

boutselis to mackey

Member

to mackey

Re: [HVAC] Re: Ac compressor and fan acting up

it is FT4BF-048KA 4 ton. I was told it was a westinghouse but maybe they only distributed it (there name is on it) the tag says Nordyne.

it also has under optional components : start relay kit 912933

that kit is no longer available and so far I have not found its replacement.
iknow_t
join:2012-05-03

iknow_t

Member

said by boutselis:

it is FT4BF-048KA 4 ton. I was told it was a westinghouse but maybe they only distributed it (there name is on it) the tag says Nordyne.

it also has under optional components : start relay kit 912933

that kit is no longer available and so far I have not found its replacement.

that's available from hundreds of places. take your pick.
»www.google.com/?gws_rd=s ··· t+912933
boutselis
join:2014-07-12

boutselis to Boooost

Member

to Boooost
this is the one thats on there though it is not the one called for by the tag. it has been working for the past 4 plus years though.

should i just get the same thing. the hard start kit thats called for is no longer available any way

»www.ebay.com/itm/KS1-Rec ··· d9997635
boutselis

boutselis to iknow_t

Member

to iknow_t
every one I looked at says no longer available
iknow_t
join:2012-05-03

iknow_t to boutselis

Member

to boutselis
said by boutselis:

this is the one thats on there though it is not the one called for by the tag. it has been working for the past 4 plus years though.

should i just get the same thing. the hard start kit thats called for is no longer available any way

»www.ebay.com/itm/KS1-Rec ··· d9997635

use this one, it's ok. I did find some online, at nearly twice the price. like this one.
»www.hvacpartstore.com/2358.html
boutselis
join:2014-07-12

boutselis

Member

thank you. I know it says "replaces 912933 but it also says it can be used on units up to 3 ton. mine is a 4 ton

I did order the same one thats on the unit now but I can always send it back. it was $37
boutselis

boutselis

Member

it wasn't the hard start cap.

any other ideas that could help me please

enon
@66.87.83.x

enon

Anon

As far as I can tell, you still haven't replaced the fan motor cap. Go back and read this again:
said by robbin:

The hard start is for the compressor. I thought you were having problems with the fan not starting. If so, then replace the silver one and see if it makes any difference.

It's also not entirely clear from your descriptions whether you're having problems with just the fan, or both the fan and compressor. If it's both, I would start looking for a loose connection or bad contactor. If the wiring or contact tips are marginal, there may not be enough capacity to carry the required starting current for both motors.
iknow_t
join:2012-05-03

iknow_t to boutselis

Member

to boutselis
said by boutselis:

it wasn't the hard start cap.

any other ideas that could help me please

check the voltage at the AC when it does that..

pende_tim
Premium Member
join:2004-01-04
Selbyville, DE

pende_tim to enon

Premium Member

to enon
Agree. At this point I would turn off breaker for the Outdoor unit and starting at the breaker, re-tighten all the connections on the power.
Next I would make sure all the thermostat wiring especially between the air handler and outdoor unit is securely connected.

Finally replace both the caps in the outdoor unit. Cheap and easy to do and will eliminate that as a possibility.