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tshirt
Premium Member
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA

1 recommendation

tshirt

Premium Member

Netflix is making it very clear: they want ISPs reclassified as utilities.

very likely (what they would like), and very convenient for them.

I'd like to Netflix to be free, but I can't see that working real well either.
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

1 recommendation

iansltx

Member

Correction: Netflix wants ISPs to accept their OpenConnect hardware and peer with Netflix for free in locations convenient to Netflix. And have clean routes from that peering point, or OpenConnect box, to the end user.

Now, reclassifying ISPs as utilities is one way of getting close to this. But Comcast is mainly reacting to the fact that Verizon, Comcast and AT&T to an extent won't let Netflix shop for transit on the competitive market, nor will they host OpenConnect boxes. And at this point that's what would have to happen in order to guarantee high quality streams to those ISPs' customers, because any CDN would have to come begging to VZ/Comcast for additional transit if Netflix became a customer...and the CDNs know that those ISPs will just stonewall them if they see Netflix as a customer of that CDN at that scale. Which means that that CDN now has a competitive advantage versus other CDNs that Netflix isn't using. Gotta love the twisted incentives and precedents.

tshirt
Premium Member
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA

2 recommendations

tshirt

Premium Member

said by iansltx:

Verizon, Comcast and AT&T to an extent won't let Netflix shop for transit on the competitive market,...

I'd (almost) agree, except Netflix still controls the path to the ISP's chosen meetme/port. The one(s) they agree to when they signed the direct connect with each ISP.
And assuming neither Netflix nor the ISP's are incompetent there is likely binding performance requirements and escape clauses for failure to perform.

PlusOne
@50.182.54.x

PlusOne to iansltx

Anon

to iansltx
said by iansltx:

Correction: Netflix wants ISPs to accept their OpenConnect hardware and peer with Netflix for free in locations convenient to Netflix.

That is called blackmail(the hard ball business type of blackmail). Netflix wants what it wants, and since the ISPs aren't caving in, Netflix is applying pressure by adding its clout to demands to overregulate ISPs as utilities.
InvalidError
join:2008-02-03

1 recommendation

InvalidError

Member

Even if Netflix got their wish, it still would not solve their problem: unlike gas or power where every unit coming into the network from any supplier is equivalent to any unit from any other source with flow being relatively even in either direction across most of the network, bits from Netflix are not interchangeable with bits from Amazon, Apple, Google, etc. so you still end up with the current situation of large chunks of traffic coming from a single source and potential choke-points in-between.

The funniest thing would be if Netflix got what they thought they wanted but cost analysis to set utility rates did find out that handling Netflix traffic does carry additional costs due to being heavily concentrated on few ingress nodes to the carriers' networks. Now, Netflix either has to pay the premium to continue hammering their preferred peering points (utilities are entitled to a fair rate of return and if Netflix' current peering causes more costs than normal, utilities would be entitled to extra charges) or eat the cost to expand their peering point mix to avoid the utility surcharges.

BigDave
@77.247.181.x

BigDave to PlusOne

Anon

to PlusOne
said by PlusOne :

said by iansltx:

Correction: Netflix wants ISPs to accept their OpenConnect hardware and peer with Netflix for free in locations convenient to Netflix.

That is called blackmail(the hard ball business type of blackmail). Netflix wants what it wants, and since the ISPs aren't caving in, Netflix is applying pressure by adding its clout to demands to overregulate ISPs as utilities.

In other words you are saying Netflix "created" this problem to apply pressure to ISPs so Netflix no longer has to pay for transit. Nice strategy

1) OpenConnect - Create a self-serving solution (everyone would like their "free server" installed on the Internet)
2) Peering Congestion - Create a problem by routing your traffic so your solution is needed to fix it
3) Rank the ISPs - Blame the ISPs for the problem you created
4) Get the Gov involved - Create a lobbying and PR machine to support your blackmail. Drive a self-serving title II campain.

The Internet (and Netflix) ran far better before all of the above

Pretty smart for Netflix, but their customers are really pawns in their game. Can you imagine the Internet regulated as Title II... it will be as great as the phone system!!
houghe9
join:2008-02-27
Lexington Park, MD

houghe9

Member

said by BigDave :

2) Peering Congestion - Create a problem by routing your traffic so your solution is needed to fix it
3) Rank the ISPs - Blame the ISPs for the problem you create

the problem was not netflix. isps were crying long before when everyone was doing p2p. their networks could not handle everyone trying use their internet that they paid for the way they wanted. isps cried its all the piracy that is the problem. they got their wish p2p is down people are now paying for their content. now the isps are creating the congestion problem on purpose and are trying to rape businesses such as netflix.

BigDave
@82.94.251.x

1 recommendation

BigDave

Anon

You are mixing issues. p2p does not congest peering points. Moving 1/3 of the Internet from a working distribution system to very select and specific paths, KNOWING that you will break them is #2 and #3.

Once Netflix took over control of their video delivery from other CDNs, they became solely responsible for the performance. Blaming the ISPs was just a form of negotiation/blackmail (using customers as pawns)

tshirt
Premium Member
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA

tshirt to BigDave

Premium Member

to BigDave
said by BigDave :

...Can you imagine the Internet regulated as Title II... it will be as great as the phone system!!
Tod

And cost at least twice as much!

fg8578
join:2009-04-26
San Antonio, TX

fg8578 to iansltx

Member

to iansltx
said by iansltx:

Verizon, Comcast and AT&T to an extent won't let Netflix shop for transit on the competitive market

How can any third party possibly stop Netflix from shopping for the transit provider of their choice? This should be good,
Kamus
join:2011-01-27
El Paso, TX

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But you hate Netflix, are you a masochist?

tshirt
Premium Member
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA

tshirt

Premium Member

said by Kamus:

But you hate Netflix,

Actually a valued customer for multiple years, account was on hold for a few months last year.
I just believe it is realistic for Netflix and their customers to bear the costs of the service, and not transfer it to ALL isp customers.
I believe there enough value in their service to pay what they charge or even a dollar or 2 more, if that's what it takes.
said by Kamus:

are you a masochist?

nope and not a cheapskate or rich either, but I will pay for what I use.