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dirtyjeffer0
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join:2002-02-21
London, ON

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Re: [Serious] Actual Duct cleaning services

said by kingb71:

I used to be one of those that didn't believe in duct cleaning, but got mine done in January by A1 heating & cooling in Oakville, and haven't had any sinus issues since. Very professional service, would highly recommend them

i had my ducts cleaned last year...they actually do a pretty good job (assuming you get someone legit, of course)...the guy who did ours said once every 5 years is fine.
mr weather
Premium Member
join:2002-02-27
Mississauga, ON

mr weather

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Yeah, I don't think it's a good idea to go with some no-name telemarketing duct cleaner.

Maxx2006
join:2013-02-02
Guelph, ON

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We have a golden retriever lots of hair saw no difference in our filters after duct cleaning. We have electronic filters. I put them in the dishwasher once a month.
PX Eliezer1
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join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

PX Eliezer1 to dillyhammer

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said by dillyhammer:

I used the cheapest filters I could find and change them once a month, always.

If we're talking about "one inch" filters, the cheapest fiberglass filters let a lot pass through, so people look at the filter and say "it looks clean".

Sure it looks clean if it didn't do a good job trapping.

If you get a microparticle filter such as 3M Filtrete, Honeywell Micro Defense, etc, just try it one time, you'll see the difference in what gets picked up.

Styvas
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Hamilton, ON

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The buildup of dust on surfaces in our house is pretty fast and it makes me wonder if the ducts are the problem. But outside air quality isn't super great (dust builds up on our patio set outside pretty fast too) so it's hard to know for sure where it comes from. I'm thinking about getting the ducts done just to be on the safe side. It's just so expensive (and I don't trust the discount services).

dirtyjeffer0
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London, ON

dirtyjeffer0

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said by Styvas:

The buildup of dust on surfaces in our house is pretty fast and it makes me wonder if the ducts are the problem. But outside air quality isn't super great (dust builds up on our patio set outside pretty fast too) so it's hard to know for sure where it comes from. I'm thinking about getting the ducts done just to be on the safe side. It's just so expensive (and I don't trust the discount services).

it shouldn't be too much...we used a local guy who did duct cleaning and carpet cleaning...all ducts and carpets professionally done for about $350 (kind of going off memory here).

Gone
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join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

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said by PX Eliezer1:

Sure it looks clean if it didn't do a good job trapping.

Exactly, because you shouldn't be putting that much load on your furnace in the first place.

If you're that concerned about air quality, you're far better off getting a separate air purification unit attached to your furnace rather than using the furnace blower itself. With these only so much of the air passes through at any given time, cleaning the air while also not putting unnecessary load on the blower.

MacGyver

join:2001-10-14
Vancouver, BC
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Actiontec T3200M
Arcadyan WE410443-TS
Sipura SPA-2102

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said by Styvas:

The buildup of dust on surfaces in our house is pretty fast... so it's hard to know for sure where it comes from

It comes from you. Dead skin cells = dust.

Styvas
Who are we? Forge FC!
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join:2004-09-15
Hamilton, ON

Styvas

Premium Member

Well, yeah, and 4 pets, and nearby construction traffic, etc., etc. But it piles up far quicker than in any other house I've lived. It might or might not be exacerbated by dirty ducts, but I'd be curious to clean them and see.

LazMan
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join:2003-03-26
Beverly Hills, CA

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Direct Energy cleaned the ducts at my last place; very professional, very thorough. I'll call them when I'm due to do it again...

El Quintron
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Tronna

El Quintron

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Noted, I've been keeping close watch on this. I'm going to see what my new filter looks like next week and then decide.

EQ

zacron
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join:2008-11-26
Frozen Hoth

zacron to El Quintron

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Call up Dafco Filtration in Hamilton, They kick ass on bulk purchases!

El Quintron
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Tronna

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Do you know if they ship? Despite being in Etobicoke, the Hammer is till a pretty long drive

zacron
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join:2008-11-26
Frozen Hoth

zacron

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Yes. They supply a lot of large organizations.

koira
Hey Siri Walk Me
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join:2004-02-16

koira to El Quintron

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There is a Dafco in Mississauga located on Matheson off Dixie

elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
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join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in

elwoodblues to PX Eliezer1

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said by PX Eliezer1:

If we're talking about "one inch" filters, the cheapest fiberglass filters let a lot pass through, so people look at the filter and say "it looks clean".

Sure it looks clean if it didn't do a good job trapping.

If you get a microparticle filter such as 3M Filtrete, Honeywell Micro Defense, etc, just try it one time, you'll see the difference in what gets picked up.

And this is the $64 question, my furnace guy says use the cheapest filter out there, it allows maximum air, but then it traps almost nothing and I will forget to change it every month.

So what's better a super duper filter like the 3M's or a just a cheapass filter.

donoreo
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join:2002-05-30
North York, ON

donoreo

Premium Member

said by elwoodblues:

said by PX Eliezer1:

If we're talking about "one inch" filters, the cheapest fiberglass filters let a lot pass through, so people look at the filter and say "it looks clean".

Sure it looks clean if it didn't do a good job trapping.

If you get a microparticle filter such as 3M Filtrete, Honeywell Micro Defense, etc, just try it one time, you'll see the difference in what gets picked up.

And this is the $64 question, my furnace guy says use the cheapest filter out there, it allows maximum air, but then it traps almost nothing and I will forget to change it every month.

So what's better a super duper filter like the 3M's or a just a cheapass filter.

Logically one would think somewhere in the middle.

MacGyver

join:2001-10-14
Vancouver, BC
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Actiontec T3200M
Arcadyan WE410443-TS
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said by elwoodblues:

So what's better a super duper filter like the 3M's or a just a cheapass filter.

Look for a pleated filter with metal mesh and a MERV rating of 8. This is great for residential applications. If the filter does not have a MERV rating then it's probably garbage. The 3M filters, while good, use a different rating system for superduper marketing whizbang factor and are more expensive than you really need to spend.

Make sure you change your filter regularly. Clogged filters do not allow enough air to pass over the heat exchanger and are the number one cause of cracked heat exchangers and burnt out fan motors.

Gone
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join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

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said by elwoodblues:

And this is the $64 question, my furnace guy says use the cheapest filter out there, it allows maximum air, but then it traps almost nothing and I will forget to change it every month.
So what's better a super duper filter like the 3M's or a just a cheapass filter.

Listen to your furnace guy. The furnace filter is there to keep large debris out of the furnace, not to filter every single particle out of the air in your home. A furnace was not designed to act as a whole home air filtration system. If you are concerned about indoor air quality there are add-on air filtration systems you can attach to your furnace that will not put undue strain that will shorten the life of the system.
PX Eliezer1
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Zubrowka USA

PX Eliezer1

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As MacGyver said, I think that there is a happy medium such as a mid-level MERV rating of 8.

-----

My fan (blower) and related equipment lasted almost 40 years (20 years prior owner of house, 20 years with us) and we use microparticle filters on our system (heat and AC on same ducts).

El Quintron
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Tronna

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As a quick update, I've just checked my filter after 5 days and everything seems normal, it's still clean, the air seems fine.

So far it looks like no duct cleaning for me. I'll report back in a month.

Also, seeing as people were talking about MERV ratings, this one has a MERV rating of 11, the filters also come with a MERV rating of 13, but I was afraid it would clog up too fast, so I opted to stay with 11

Gone
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Fort Erie, ON

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said by PX Eliezer1:

My fan (blower) and related equipment lasted almost 40 years (20 years prior owner of house, 20 years with us) and we use microparticle filters on our system (heat and AC on same ducts).

A 40 year old furnace can't be compared to a new high efficiency furnace. You could run those things with a filter that was clogged solid black and it would run as if nothing was wrong. Do that with something new and you'll find yourself with a burnt our blower or a cracked heat exchanger or both.
puzz1ed
join:2005-02-20
Markham, ON

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said by El Quintron:

The guy at Lowe's gave me the name of a place and I have the part number now, so I'm going to look into Amazon/Ebay and see what they have.

EQ

Check out Build.com. They ship to Canada with the taxes/duties precalculated. Three 20x25x5 brand name filters delivered for $95.

»www.build.com/trion-2556 ··· /s141035

I stopped trying to find local replacements and buying from Ebay/Amazon. The replacements were often slightly off in size or didn't have the foam gaskets. Different brands of 20x25x5 are often slightly different sizes.

Last Parade
join:2002-10-07
Port Colborne, ON

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said by Gone:

said by dillyhammer:

I never had my ducts cleaned, not once. But my place was 90 years old, so the ducts they installed actually used floor joists as the side walls of the duct, where sheet metal was just nailed to the underside to close it in so it acted like a duct. I saw it as pointless to clean them, notwithstanding everyone around me was telling me duct cleaning was just a scam.

That's a common way of creating a cold air return in any house regardless of age. They did that with mine and it's only a seven year old house. I even used wall plenum space to create a cold air return in the basement, and plan on adding more when I extend the family room and put in a bedroom.

They created cold air returns this way in my house in 2002 when it was redone.
mr weather
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join:2002-02-27
Mississauga, ON

mr weather

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Our cold air returns are the same (house built in 1992) but I've never heard of using that method for supply air.

Gone
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join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone

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Using plenum space and joists for cold air returns is fair game but it is a huge no no for supply air.
PX Eliezer1
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Zubrowka USA

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said by Gone:

A 40 year old furnace can't be compared to a new high efficiency furnace. You could run those things with a filter that was clogged solid black and it would run as if nothing was wrong. Do that with something new and you'll find yourself with a burnt our blower or a cracked heat exchanger or both.

Well of course you can't run a modern system with a clogged solid black filter....

Filter selection needs to be individualized based on what equipment is there and on the desired goals.

Here is some data that I saw posted a while ago from 3M regarding their Filtrete products. It seems to me that the Canadian products differ somewhat but this is for general illustration.

The media fibers are polypropylene and polyolefin plastic.

Performance, MERV Ratings and pressure drop:

[Maximum/Ultimate Allergen 1700]
1-10 microns - 93%
MERV 12
pressure drop .20

[Ultra Allergen 1250]
1-10 microns - 90%
MERV 11
pressure drop .18

[Allergen Reduction 1200]
1-10 microns - 85%
MERV 11
pressure drop .23

[Micro Allergen Extra 1085]
1-10 microns - 85%
MERV 11
pressure drop .19

[Micro Allergen 1000]
1-10 microns - 80%
MERV 11
pressure drop .21

[Micro Particle 700]
1-10 microns - 75%
MERV 9
pressure drop .18

[Dust & Pollen 600]
1-10 microns - 70%
MERV 8
pressure drop .14

[Dust Reduction 300]
1-10 microns - 60%
MERV 7
pressure drop .15

As clean filters, the product is not restrictive to air flow. Filters will
become restrictive if they are not changed when needed. We say filter life is approximately 3 months and this is an approximation. Filter life is actually determined by the user's living conditions and will vary for every user. To determine when the filter needs to be change, we suggest holding it up to the light. When you cannot see light through the filters, it will need to be changed even if it is before 3 months.

If you are concerned about airflow, you might want to use the Dust & Pollen filter which has the lowest pressure drop, and change it more frequently. The capture rate of this filter is also lower.

But you have indeed inspired me to check/replace the filter more often. Heaven knows I have enough cracked things in my life already.
ShetiPhian
join:2011-12-29
Belleville, ON

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Not something I've done but have been told about. (idle conversation with a HVAC guy when I worked at a mom and pop electrical store)

Stack filters.

Duct | Filter A | Spacer | Filter B | Furnace
The spacer can be made from a gutted used filter.

When you change filters you move filter B to the front and add the new one behind.
Duct | Filter B | Spacer | Filter C | Furnace

Basically here is the sizes you would use:
3" = 2x 1" filter + 1" spacer
4" = 2x 1" filter + 2" spacer -or- 2x 2" filter with no spacer
5" = 2x 2" filter + 1" spacer
6" = 2x 2" filter + 2" spacer