dslreports logo
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc
Search similar:


uniqs
3682

aefstoggaflm
Open Source Fan
Premium Member
join:2002-03-04
Bethlehem, PA
Linksys E4200
ARRIS SB6141

1 edit

aefstoggaflm

Premium Member

What to say to webmaster if their site supports IE only (ex: no Firefox)?

What do you guys/gals think?

Here are some of the things, that I was thinking of saying...
quote:
#1 Not everyone who has a computer, has a computer running Windows.

#2 Firefox is always more immune to security flaws, than IE.

For example

»www.tomsguide.com/us/mic ··· 135.html

»windowssecrets.com/patch ··· ponents/

3 And more annoying things about IE vs other browsers (like Firefox)

»pressupinc.com/blog/2014 ··· xplorer/


Thank you

[EDIT] Added number 3

darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium Member
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR

darcilicious

Premium Member

You mean the site won't display/function at all except in IE? Or they just "say" that on their site?

Also, I think my approach my vary depending on the kind of site it is...

aefstoggaflm
Open Source Fan
Premium Member
join:2002-03-04
Bethlehem, PA
Linksys E4200
ARRIS SB6141

aefstoggaflm

Premium Member

said by darcilicious:

You mean the site won't display/function at all except in IE? Or they just "say" that on their site?

Unknown since I do not go to each site that supports IE only, but more likely both.
said by darcilicious:

Also, I think my approach my vary depending on the kind of site it is...

Excluding Windows Update, go on and please explain.

Thank you
BlitzenZeus
Burnt Out Cynic
Premium Member
join:2000-01-13

2 recommendations

BlitzenZeus to aefstoggaflm

Premium Member

to aefstoggaflm
Outside of an intranet the most compelling reason is people with smartphones. If you run a popular site, and it's difficult, otherwise doesn't work with a smartphone then you might lose income these days. The most popular web browsers on mobile are webkit based, and that is Chrome and Safari, which are also available on the pc, however I'm not aware of any linux version of Safari. Firefox was the trailblazer for Chrome to follow, and save us from a world where you needed IE to browse the internet. Opera didn't exactly compete either still charging for their browser, and crying to the EU, there's a reason Opera is now just another chromium build. Sites that only support IE are a relic of the past, and these days are more of a headache for webmasters as Microsoft doesn't force them off old versions which they have to make adjustments for if they even care. Some just tell them to upgrade their browser, or use a different browser as they don't want to compensate for five versions of IE.

At »modern.ie/en-us/virtuali ··· ownloads you can get free virtual machines running trial versions of windows to use IE, however this is meant for web designers. You'll have to reload it periodically so it's not great to use for long periods. So it's possible without spending any money to at least get access to IE.

Ever since Vista you haven't needed IE to use windows update, even if you visit the page with Vista it tells you to run the local client.

shdesigns
Powered By Infinite Improbabilty Drive
Premium Member
join:2000-12-01
Stone Mountain, GA

3 recommendations

shdesigns to aefstoggaflm

Premium Member

to aefstoggaflm
You just have to show them that they only support less than 9% of the users:

»www.w3schools.com/browse ··· tats.asp

ImpldConsent
Scouts Out
Premium Member
join:2001-03-04
North Port, FL
·Comcast XFINITY

1 recommendation

ImpldConsent to aefstoggaflm

Premium Member

to aefstoggaflm
said by aefstoggaflm:

What to say to webmaster if their site supports IE only (ex: no Firefox)?

Me: your website, us.army.mil only supports IE. That sucks
Them: correct, we only SUPPORT i.e.; however, other browsers will work if correctly configured. See militarycac.com for the 'unofficial' report

...sorry, that's the only site that I've had a problem with in the past 5yrs or so. Most are HTLM5, CSS2.1 and XHTML compliant, never really had a pure IE only site.

wmcbrine
join:2002-12-30
Laurel, MD

2 recommendations

wmcbrine to aefstoggaflm

Member

to aefstoggaflm
Does that still happen? IE is a minority of browser share now. Although, I doubt it's really down to 9%, outside of sites like w3schools that are favored by technically savvy users.

I hope we don't start seeing "Optimized for Chrome" sites.
said by BlitzenZeus:

The most popular web browsers on mobile are webkit based, and that is Chrome and Safari, which are also available on the pc, however I'm not aware of any linux version of Safari.

Chrome is available for Linux. Safari isn't that interesting in itself if you already have Chrome. Anyway, WebKit is based on KHTML, from Konqueror -- it originated on Linux.
BlitzenZeus
Burnt Out Cynic
Premium Member
join:2000-01-13

1 recommendation

BlitzenZeus

Premium Member

I never said chromium/chrome wasn't available for linux, just safari, but I was only giving examples of the most popular browsers anyway.

NetFixer
From My Cold Dead Hands
Premium Member
join:2004-06-24
The Boro
Netgear CM500
Pace 5268AC
TRENDnet TEW-829DRU

NetFixer to aefstoggaflm

Premium Member

to aefstoggaflm
Can you supply some examples of sites that only support the use of Internet Explorer?

The only such sites I have run across in the past decade (or longer) have been private membership only sites which use ActiveX for specialized applications that are intended for a limited membership only clientele (and some of those sites/applications actually require specific versions of IE). In those cases, I don't consider their approach to be any different than if they were supplying their applications as stand-alone programs that would only run on Windows (and perhaps only on specific versions of Windows). In other words, if I (or a client) need that application, it is used; otherwise...

Supply me with some examples of public non-membership web sites that only support using Internet Explorer, and after visiting those sites, I may then be able to provide an answer to your question.

darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium Member
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
·Ziply Fiber

darcilicious

Premium Member

said by NetFixer:

The only such sites I have run across in the past decade (or longer) have been private membership only sites which use ActiveX for specialized applications that are intended for a limited membership only clientele (and some of those sites/applications actually require specific versions of IE).

[...]

Supply me with some examples of public non-membership web sites that only support using Internet Explorer, and after visiting those sites, I may then be able to provide an answer to your question.

+1 and the point I was tried (and failed) to make above.

ImpldConsent
Scouts Out
Premium Member
join:2001-03-04
North Port, FL
·Comcast XFINITY

ImpldConsent to NetFixer

Premium Member

to NetFixer
said by NetFixer:

Supply me with some examples of public non-membership web sites that only support using Internet Explorer, and after visiting those sites, I may then be able to provide an answer to your question.

»www.us.army.mil

...the front page is public; however, to enter the site beyond is only for authorized users. There are work arounds to your (noticable) certificate issues, but further in the site will start screaming about 'unsupported browser' especially on hitting some poorly designed apps.

NetFixer
From My Cold Dead Hands
Premium Member
join:2004-06-24
The Boro
Netgear CM500
Pace 5268AC
TRENDnet TEW-829DRU

1 recommendation

NetFixer

Premium Member

said by ImpldConsent:

said by NetFixer:

Supply me with some examples of public non-membership web sites that only support using Internet Explorer, and after visiting those sites, I may then be able to provide an answer to your question.

»www.us.army.mil

...the front page is public; however, to enter the site beyond is only for authorized users. There are work arounds to your (noticable) certificate issues, but further in the site will start screaming about 'unsupported browser' especially on hitting some poorly designed apps.

I would not consider that site to be a "public non-membership" web site since it does indeed require a login by an authorized user to access its content (and its "poorly designed apps").

TuxRaiderPen2
Make America Great Again
join:2009-09-19

1 recommendation

TuxRaiderPen2 to aefstoggaflm

Member

to aefstoggaflm
said by aefstoggaflm:
What do you guys/gals think?

Here are some of the things, that I was thinking of saying...
I hit them with standard Tuxraiderpen email/contact form , aka go nuclear on them.

There is one large midwestern US based retailer whose internal, errr.. indian web team, just has no )$!(@*$!)(*$ clue. From a site which worked reasonably well in Konqi to totally failing without using some manual workarounds to get browsing to work or orders... They still even after their issues are entrenched in supporting "toy os" and toy browsers for their internal sites as well.

I've sent their "guest experience" contact emails numerous times to explain to them that they need to stick to STANDARDS, not mslese standards but the STANDARDS as developed. Doing so then Konqueror, and others 99.9999% of the time will work. The only issue is normally exploder which well, explodes.

As FYI.. I test and develop with KONQUEROR only. I test with it, and release to it, and ONLY IT. If things blow up in exploder, oh well, so sad, call me when you use a real OS and browser.

Clients and/or potential clients are FOREWARNED UPFRONT that we develop to the STANDARDS, PERIOD. And how we test that. Only a few which are so snookered in to start we don't want them any way. A few even went the whole ASsP nonsense route and came back with their tail between their legs to ask us to clean up..

Cabal
Premium Member
join:2007-01-21

Cabal to aefstoggaflm

Premium Member

to aefstoggaflm
I would say nothing and take my business elsewhere.

But I haven't run into a site like that (including banks) in at least a decade.

aefstoggaflm
Open Source Fan
Premium Member
join:2002-03-04
Bethlehem, PA
Linksys E4200
ARRIS SB6141

aefstoggaflm to NetFixer

Premium Member

to NetFixer
said by NetFixer:

Can you supply some examples of sites that only support the use of Internet Explorer?

Supply me with some examples of public non-membership web sites that only support using Internet Explorer, and after visiting those sites, I may then be able to provide an answer to your question.

I point to »toastytech.com/good/bads ··· ist.html

Keeping in mind that web page is updated, occasionally.

donoreo
Premium Member
join:2002-05-30
North York, ON

1 recommendation

donoreo to aefstoggaflm

Premium Member

to aefstoggaflm
Often the reason for it is the back end system that generates some data produces it in an IE format like ActiveX. The reason this does not change is the cost of replacing or upgrading the back end system.

tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
MVM
join:2008-01-16
Gilbert, AZ

tubbynet to aefstoggaflm

MVM

to aefstoggaflm
references to ie4, win2k, and firefox 3?
you realize most of the complaints are about tests done over 10 years ago, right?



q.

rolfp
no-shill zone
Premium Member
join:2011-03-27
Oakland, CA

1 recommendation

rolfp

Premium Member

said by tubbynet:

references to ie4, win2k, and firefox 3?
you realize most of the complaints are about tests done over 10 years ago, right?

I tried the links provided at »toastytech.com/good/bads ··· ist.html and found a number of blocks because I'm not using IE, today, 20140728. Assuming you refer to that page, did you try the links?

NetFixer
From My Cold Dead Hands
Premium Member
join:2004-06-24
The Boro
Netgear CM500
Pace 5268AC
TRENDnet TEW-829DRU

1 recommendation

NetFixer to aefstoggaflm

Premium Member

to aefstoggaflm
said by aefstoggaflm:

said by NetFixer:

Can you supply some examples of sites that only support the use of Internet Explorer?

Supply me with some examples of public non-membership web sites that only support using Internet Explorer, and after visiting those sites, I may then be able to provide an answer to your question.

I point to »toastytech.com/good/bads ··· ist.html

Keeping in mind that web page is updated, occasionally.

Updated occasionally is a very big understatement. I randomly tried a number of the links (and no, I did not enable scripting for that site to use the convenient viewing frame) and the most common error I saw was "not found".

However, to answer your question, the vast majority of those sites (even the ones that are actually active), I would have never visited except for evaluation for this thread, so I would really have nothing to say to the site webmaster about the site functionality (because I would not give a damn). A lot of the sites on that list seem to be private sites for employees and/or franchisees to use, and those are covered by my earlier statement about old ActiveX applications (that are not likely to be replaced no matter how much the users complain). Plus, I was expecting you to tell me of personal experience with specific sites which you encountered that only accepted IE -- why else would you have started this thread?

The only three functioning sites on that list (mail.yahoo.com, the MS download site, and the Dell support site), that I would voluntarily visit, work just fine for me with SeaMonkey. Perhaps there are some areas or functions on each of those sites that use ActiveX (or some other proprietary MS code), but I don't recall ever running into that problem when using those sites (and I use the MS and Dell sites quite regularly to download apps, drivers, and updates with SeaMonkey -- and I access mail.yahoo.com with SeaMonkey multiple times per day).
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

1 recommendation

Kearnstd to donoreo

Premium Member

to donoreo
I think this is especially true on Intranets. And why large numbers of companies had to hold onto IE6 for so long said activeX controls were written for IE6
coryw
join:2013-12-22
Flagstaff, AZ

1 recommendation

coryw to aefstoggaflm

Member

to aefstoggaflm
Are there still web sites that only work in IE?

If it's a vendor or a company you want to buy from, you could just not buy from them.

Intranets are different, because your paycheck is typically dependent on using a system or technology dictated by your employer, even if you hate it and you think it's terrible. At my workplace (I am on an internal help desk team) the attitude is that part of your working for our organization is that we use the technology we've provided, even if from your perspective, something else looks better.

aefstoggaflm
Open Source Fan
Premium Member
join:2002-03-04
Bethlehem, PA
Linksys E4200
ARRIS SB6141

aefstoggaflm

Premium Member

said by coryw:

Are there still web sites that only work in IE?

Yes, I listed a web page the directs users to other sites..
TechMike
join:2008-06-09
Denver, CO

TechMike to aefstoggaflm

Member

to aefstoggaflm
The only website I've run across that I can't get to work without IE is our company's RD gateway. Since it is a Microsoft application utilizing ActiveX, I'm not surprised. Nor do I expect it to get fixed.

JohnInSJ
Premium Member
join:2003-09-22
Aptos, CA

2 recommendations

JohnInSJ to aefstoggaflm

Premium Member

to aefstoggaflm
said by aefstoggaflm:

What do you guys/gals think?

Why do you care? If they are happy with their site, and it serves the needs of their user base, great. If the site suffers because of whatever choice the site owner makes, then they will either improve it, or it will wither and die.

El Quintron
Cancel Culture Ambassador
Premium Member
join:2008-04-28
Tronna

1 recommendation

El Quintron to aefstoggaflm

Premium Member

to aefstoggaflm
@OP I don't think there's anything you can do here; the site owner is either completely clueless (and therefore beyond help) or this is intentional, and that makes the site owner clueless for different reasons.

I'd load up the "user agent switcher" extension (or whatever it's called nowadays) and be done with it. That way you can access the site, and you don't need to have a technical discussion with someone that may or may not be receptive to this kind of feedback.

EQ

NetFixer
From My Cold Dead Hands
Premium Member
join:2004-06-24
The Boro
Netgear CM500
Pace 5268AC
TRENDnet TEW-829DRU

1 recommendation

NetFixer to aefstoggaflm

Premium Member

to aefstoggaflm
I just wanted to update this thread to say that I recently actually ran across a mainstream website that would only work with Internet Explorer. A couple of days ago my wife had problems with jockey.com; there was no way she could see images or details on any item she tried to select. I at first assumed that it was some external site being used as a database host, or perhaps a CDN issue, and that NoScript was blocking what it though were external images and content; but telling NoScript to temporarily allow all did not make any difference, nor did totally disabling NoScript in the add-ons manager.

The only solution was for her to use Internet Explorer to shop at that site.

To answer your question: since I was not the one having the problem, I didn't bother to tell the site's webmaster what I thought of his coding skills. However, if I had been the one trying to purchase something from that site, I probably would have sent a message to the webmaster that if they wanted my money, they were going to have to upgrade their site to not use MS specific coding.

FWIW, I checked that site again today, and now the site works with SeaMonkey and NoScript by just temporarily allowing the base site and a couple of obvious CDN domains. Apparently some customers did complain, and the site is not now Internet Explorer only.

graysonf
MVM
join:1999-07-16
Fort Lauderdale, FL

2 recommendations

graysonf to aefstoggaflm

MVM

to aefstoggaflm
If I was trying to purchase something from a site that required IE, I would fire up IE, determine the contact address for the site, close IE, and send them email saying they lost a sale by requiring IE.

Rexter
Libertas, Aequitas, Veritas
join:2002-11-17
cloud 9

2 recommendations

Rexter to El Quintron

Member

to El Quintron
There is absolutely no way I will use user agent switcher to purchase something. I would be more willing to pay more somewhere else, or just go without. Take Netflix for example. Sure there are ways to get it to work on Linux, but I will not give them a single dime of my money until it just works natively.

JohnInSJ
Premium Member
join:2003-09-22
Aptos, CA

JohnInSJ to NetFixer

Premium Member

to NetFixer
said by NetFixer:

A couple of days ago my wife had problems with jockey.com; there was no way she could see images or details on any item she tried to select.

Works fine for me, Firefox (latest version) on Linux. Methinks PEBKAC.

NetFixer
From My Cold Dead Hands
Premium Member
join:2004-06-24
The Boro
Netgear CM500
Pace 5268AC
TRENDnet TEW-829DRU

1 recommendation

NetFixer

Premium Member

said by JohnInSJ:

said by NetFixer:

A couple of days ago my wife had problems with jockey.com; there was no way she could see images or details on any item she tried to select.

Works fine for me, Firefox (latest version) on Linux. Methinks PEBKAC.

You apparently missed this portion of the post:
said by NetFixer:

I at first assumed that it was some external site being used as a database host, or perhaps a CDN issue, and that NoScript was blocking what it though were external images and content; but telling NoScript to temporarily allow all did not make any difference, nor did totally disabling NoScript in the add-ons manager.

As well as this portion of the post:
said by NetFixer:

FWIW, I checked that site again today, and now the site works with SeaMonkey and NoScript by just temporarily allowing the base site and a couple of obvious CDN domains. Apparently some customers did complain, and the site is not now Internet Explorer only.

Same site, same PC, same OS, same SeaMonkey browser, same NoScript settings, same secondary user (me), but yes -- today it works (as I did say).