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aefstoggaflm
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1 edit

What to say to webmaster if their site supports IE only (ex: no Firefox)?

What do you guys/gals think?

Here are some of the things, that I was thinking of saying...

quote:
#1 Not everyone who has a computer, has a computer running Windows.

#2 Firefox is always more immune to security flaws, than IE.

For example

»www.tomsguide.com/us/microsoft-i···135.html

»windowssecrets.com/patch-watch/n···ponents/

3 And more annoying things about IE vs other browsers (like Firefox)

»pressupinc.com/blog/2014/07/stil···xplorer/


Thank you

[EDIT] Added number 3
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darcilicious
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You mean the site won't display/function at all except in IE? Or they just "say" that on their site?

Also, I think my approach my vary depending on the kind of site it is...
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aefstoggaflm
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said by darcilicious:

You mean the site won't display/function at all except in IE? Or they just "say" that on their site?

Unknown since I do not go to each site that supports IE only, but more likely both.

said by darcilicious:

Also, I think my approach my vary depending on the kind of site it is...

Excluding Windows Update, go on and please explain.

Thank you
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BlitzenZeus
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reply to aefstoggaflm

Outside of an intranet the most compelling reason is people with smartphones. If you run a popular site, and it's difficult, otherwise doesn't work with a smartphone then you might lose income these days. The most popular web browsers on mobile are webkit based, and that is Chrome and Safari, which are also available on the pc, however I'm not aware of any linux version of Safari. Firefox was the trailblazer for Chrome to follow, and save us from a world where you needed IE to browse the internet. Opera didn't exactly compete either still charging for their browser, and crying to the EU, there's a reason Opera is now just another chromium build. Sites that only support IE are a relic of the past, and these days are more of a headache for webmasters as Microsoft doesn't force them off old versions which they have to make adjustments for if they even care. Some just tell them to upgrade their browser, or use a different browser as they don't want to compensate for five versions of IE.

At »modern.ie/en-us/virtualization-t···ownloads you can get free virtual machines running trial versions of windows to use IE, however this is meant for web designers. You'll have to reload it periodically so it's not great to use for long periods. So it's possible without spending any money to at least get access to IE.

Ever since Vista you haven't needed IE to use windows update, even if you visit the page with Vista it tells you to run the local client.
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shdesigns
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reply to aefstoggaflm

You just have to show them that they only support less than 9% of the users:

»www.w3schools.com/browsers/brows···tats.asp



ImpldConsent
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reply to aefstoggaflm

said by aefstoggaflm:

What to say to webmaster if their site supports IE only (ex: no Firefox)?

Me: your website, us.army.mil only supports IE. That sucks
Them: correct, we only SUPPORT i.e.; however, other browsers will work if correctly configured. See militarycac.com for the 'unofficial' report

...sorry, that's the only site that I've had a problem with in the past 5yrs or so. Most are HTLM5, CSS2.1 and XHTML compliant, never really had a pure IE only site.
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wmcbrine
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reply to aefstoggaflm

Does that still happen? IE is a minority of browser share now. Although, I doubt it's really down to 9%, outside of sites like w3schools that are favored by technically savvy users.

I hope we don't start seeing "Optimized for Chrome" sites.

said by BlitzenZeus:

The most popular web browsers on mobile are webkit based, and that is Chrome and Safari, which are also available on the pc, however I'm not aware of any linux version of Safari.

Chrome is available for Linux. Safari isn't that interesting in itself if you already have Chrome. Anyway, WebKit is based on KHTML, from Konqueror -- it originated on Linux.
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BlitzenZeus
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I never said chromium/chrome wasn't available for linux, just safari, but I was only giving examples of the most popular browsers anyway.



NetFixer
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reply to aefstoggaflm

Can you supply some examples of sites that only support the use of Internet Explorer?

The only such sites I have run across in the past decade (or longer) have been private membership only sites which use ActiveX for specialized applications that are intended for a limited membership only clientele (and some of those sites/applications actually require specific versions of IE). In those cases, I don't consider their approach to be any different than if they were supplying their applications as stand-alone programs that would only run on Windows (and perhaps only on specific versions of Windows). In other words, if I (or a client) need that application, it is used; otherwise...

Supply me with some examples of public non-membership web sites that only support using Internet Explorer, and after visiting those sites, I may then be able to provide an answer to your question.
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darcilicious
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said by NetFixer:

The only such sites I have run across in the past decade (or longer) have been private membership only sites which use ActiveX for specialized applications that are intended for a limited membership only clientele (and some of those sites/applications actually require specific versions of IE).

[...]

Supply me with some examples of public non-membership web sites that only support using Internet Explorer, and after visiting those sites, I may then be able to provide an answer to your question.

+1 and the point I was tried (and failed) to make above.
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reply to NetFixer

said by NetFixer:

Supply me with some examples of public non-membership web sites that only support using Internet Explorer, and after visiting those sites, I may then be able to provide an answer to your question.

»www.us.army.mil

...the front page is public; however, to enter the site beyond is only for authorized users. There are work arounds to your (noticable) certificate issues, but further in the site will start screaming about 'unsupported browser' especially on hitting some poorly designed apps.
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said by ImpldConsent:

said by NetFixer:

Supply me with some examples of public non-membership web sites that only support using Internet Explorer, and after visiting those sites, I may then be able to provide an answer to your question.

»www.us.army.mil

...the front page is public; however, to enter the site beyond is only for authorized users. There are work arounds to your (noticable) certificate issues, but further in the site will start screaming about 'unsupported browser' especially on hitting some poorly designed apps.

I would not consider that site to be a "public non-membership" web site since it does indeed require a login by an authorized user to access its content (and its "poorly designed apps").
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We need to witness our own limits transgressed, and some life pasturing freely where we never wander.

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reply to aefstoggaflm

said by aefstoggaflm:
What do you guys/gals think?

Here are some of the things, that I was thinking of saying...
I hit them with standard Tuxraiderpen email/contact form , aka go nuclear on them.

There is one large midwestern US based retailer whose internal, errr.. indian web team, just has no )$!(@*$!)(*$ clue. From a site which worked reasonably well in Konqi to totally failing without using some manual workarounds to get browsing to work or orders... They still even after their issues are entrenched in supporting "toy os" and toy browsers for their internal sites as well.

I've sent their "guest experience" contact emails numerous times to explain to them that they need to stick to STANDARDS, not mslese standards but the STANDARDS as developed. Doing so then Konqueror, and others 99.9999% of the time will work. The only issue is normally exploder which well, explodes.

As FYI.. I test and develop with KONQUEROR only. I test with it, and release to it, and ONLY IT. If things blow up in exploder, oh well, so sad, call me when you use a real OS and browser.

Clients and/or potential clients are FOREWARNED UPFRONT that we develop to the STANDARDS, PERIOD. And how we test that. Only a few which are so snookered in to start we don't want them any way. A few even went the whole ASsP nonsense route and came back with their tail between their legs to ask us to clean up..
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Cabal
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reply to aefstoggaflm

I would say nothing and take my business elsewhere.

But I haven't run into a site like that (including banks) in at least a decade.
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aefstoggaflm
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reply to NetFixer

said by NetFixer:

Can you supply some examples of sites that only support the use of Internet Explorer?

Supply me with some examples of public non-membership web sites that only support using Internet Explorer, and after visiting those sites, I may then be able to provide an answer to your question.

I point to »toastytech.com/good/badsitelist.html

Keeping in mind that web page is updated, occasionally.
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donoreo
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reply to aefstoggaflm

Often the reason for it is the back end system that generates some data produces it in an IE format like ActiveX. The reason this does not change is the cost of replacing or upgrading the back end system.



tubbynet
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reply to aefstoggaflm

references to ie4, win2k, and firefox 3?
you realize most of the complaints are about tests done over 10 years ago, right?



q.
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said by tubbynet:

references to ie4, win2k, and firefox 3?
you realize most of the complaints are about tests done over 10 years ago, right?

I tried the links provided at »toastytech.com/good/badsitelist.html and found a number of blocks because I'm not using IE, today, 20140728. Assuming you refer to that page, did you try the links?


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reply to aefstoggaflm

said by aefstoggaflm:

said by NetFixer:

Can you supply some examples of sites that only support the use of Internet Explorer?

Supply me with some examples of public non-membership web sites that only support using Internet Explorer, and after visiting those sites, I may then be able to provide an answer to your question.

I point to »toastytech.com/good/badsitelist.html

Keeping in mind that web page is updated, occasionally.

Updated occasionally is a very big understatement. I randomly tried a number of the links (and no, I did not enable scripting for that site to use the convenient viewing frame) and the most common error I saw was "not found".

However, to answer your question, the vast majority of those sites (even the ones that are actually active), I would have never visited except for evaluation for this thread, so I would really have nothing to say to the site webmaster about the site functionality (because I would not give a damn). A lot of the sites on that list seem to be private sites for employees and/or franchisees to use, and those are covered by my earlier statement about old ActiveX applications (that are not likely to be replaced no matter how much the users complain). Plus, I was expecting you to tell me of personal experience with specific sites which you encountered that only accepted IE -- why else would you have started this thread?

The only three functioning sites on that list (mail.yahoo.com, the MS download site, and the Dell support site), that I would voluntarily visit, work just fine for me with SeaMonkey. Perhaps there are some areas or functions on each of those sites that use ActiveX (or some other proprietary MS code), but I don't recall ever running into that problem when using those sites (and I use the MS and Dell sites quite regularly to download apps, drivers, and updates with SeaMonkey -- and I access mail.yahoo.com with SeaMonkey multiple times per day).
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reply to donoreo

I think this is especially true on Intranets. And why large numbers of companies had to hold onto IE6 for so long said activeX controls were written for IE6
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reply to aefstoggaflm

Are there still web sites that only work in IE?

If it's a vendor or a company you want to buy from, you could just not buy from them.

Intranets are different, because your paycheck is typically dependent on using a system or technology dictated by your employer, even if you hate it and you think it's terrible. At my workplace (I am on an internal help desk team) the attitude is that part of your working for our organization is that we use the technology we've provided, even if from your perspective, something else looks better.



aefstoggaflm
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said by coryw:

Are there still web sites that only work in IE?

Yes, I listed a web page the directs users to other sites..
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TechMike

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reply to aefstoggaflm

The only website I've run across that I can't get to work without IE is our company's RD gateway. Since it is a Microsoft application utilizing ActiveX, I'm not surprised. Nor do I expect it to get fixed.



JohnInSJ
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reply to aefstoggaflm

said by aefstoggaflm:

What do you guys/gals think?

Why do you care? If they are happy with their site, and it serves the needs of their user base, great. If the site suffers because of whatever choice the site owner makes, then they will either improve it, or it will wither and die.
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reply to aefstoggaflm

@OP I don't think there's anything you can do here; the site owner is either completely clueless (and therefore beyond help) or this is intentional, and that makes the site owner clueless for different reasons.

I'd load up the "user agent switcher" extension (or whatever it's called nowadays) and be done with it. That way you can access the site, and you don't need to have a technical discussion with someone that may or may not be receptive to this kind of feedback.

EQ
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reply to aefstoggaflm

I just wanted to update this thread to say that I recently actually ran across a mainstream website that would only work with Internet Explorer. A couple of days ago my wife had problems with jockey.com; there was no way she could see images or details on any item she tried to select. I at first assumed that it was some external site being used as a database host, or perhaps a CDN issue, and that NoScript was blocking what it though were external images and content; but telling NoScript to temporarily allow all did not make any difference, nor did totally disabling NoScript in the add-ons manager.

The only solution was for her to use Internet Explorer to shop at that site.

To answer your question: since I was not the one having the problem, I didn't bother to tell the site's webmaster what I thought of his coding skills. However, if I had been the one trying to purchase something from that site, I probably would have sent a message to the webmaster that if they wanted my money, they were going to have to upgrade their site to not use MS specific coding.

FWIW, I checked that site again today, and now the site works with SeaMonkey and NoScript by just temporarily allowing the base site and a couple of obvious CDN domains. Apparently some customers did complain, and the site is not now Internet Explorer only.
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reply to aefstoggaflm

If I was trying to purchase something from a site that required IE, I would fire up IE, determine the contact address for the site, close IE, and send them email saying they lost a sale by requiring IE.



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reply to El Quintron

There is absolutely no way I will use user agent switcher to purchase something. I would be more willing to pay more somewhere else, or just go without. Take Netflix for example. Sure there are ways to get it to work on Linux, but I will not give them a single dime of my money until it just works natively.
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JohnInSJ
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reply to NetFixer

said by NetFixer:

A couple of days ago my wife had problems with jockey.com; there was no way she could see images or details on any item she tried to select.

Works fine for me, Firefox (latest version) on Linux. Methinks PEBKAC.
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said by JohnInSJ:

said by NetFixer:

A couple of days ago my wife had problems with jockey.com; there was no way she could see images or details on any item she tried to select.

Works fine for me, Firefox (latest version) on Linux. Methinks PEBKAC.

You apparently missed this portion of the post:
said by NetFixer:

I at first assumed that it was some external site being used as a database host, or perhaps a CDN issue, and that NoScript was blocking what it though were external images and content; but telling NoScript to temporarily allow all did not make any difference, nor did totally disabling NoScript in the add-ons manager.

As well as this portion of the post:
said by NetFixer:

FWIW, I checked that site again today, and now the site works with SeaMonkey and NoScript by just temporarily allowing the base site and a couple of obvious CDN domains. Apparently some customers did complain, and the site is not now Internet Explorer only.

Same site, same PC, same OS, same SeaMonkey browser, same NoScript settings, same secondary user (me), but yes -- today it works (as I did say).
--
We can never have enough of nature.
We need to witness our own limits transgressed, and some life pasturing freely where we never wander.