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maikii
join:2012-08-08
Pacific Palisades, CA

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maikii

Member

Digital Adapter Crap!

Now I can barely get any stations from my TWC Basic Cable, and it says I need to lease a "digital adapter" from TWC.

They advertise that as a "transition to all-digital", blah blah blah.

But TV stations have already been broadcasting digital for quite some time.

And any modern TV (like mine) has a digital tuner built-in, the TVs are already digital-ready, one should not need any kind of adapter.

This seems like some kind of scam by TWC to increase their control, and add a revenue stream with this digital adapter leasing. It has nothing to do with transition to digital. Modern TVs are already digital, and should not need an "adapter".

Is there a complaint to FCC about this?

According to a document from LA City about this, at: »ita.lacity.org/stellent/ ··· 7298.pdf , if you already have a digital TV, or one of those digital convertors they sold when broadcasting went digital, then you don't need the TWC digital convertor. But that's not true, is it? My TVs have digital tuners built in, yet I can hardly get any stations now. (Only C-Span and a couple others.)

Apparently it isn't really about going digital, but that they are scrambling almost all the channels, and you need their box to unscramble them, even for basic cable.

It is a scam of major proportions, and should not be allowed? Fine to transition to all-digital, but there should be no requirement to lease their adapter! Will the FCC protect consumers from such extortion!

Racerbob
Premium Member
join:2001-06-24
Webster, NY

Racerbob

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At 99 cents a month, I am not going to worry at all about it.
scooper
join:2000-07-11
Kansas City, KS
·Google Fiber

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scooper to maikii

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to maikii
That''s right - it's so that TWC is now encrypting virtually all the channels on their system. I'm surprised it has taken this long (I made this observation way back in the early 2000's) to actually come to fruition.

BTW - You need multiple satellite tuners / receivers if you want each TV to watch something different as well. Shocking, isn't it ? )

maartena
Elmo
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join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA

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maartena to maikii

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to maikii
said by maikii:

Is there a complaint to FCC about this?

Nope. Thanks to a republican majority at the time of the voting in 2012, the FCC voted 3 republicans in favor, 2 democrats against on the proposition where cable operators are allowed to encrypt all of the basic analog cable channels. And as such, cable operators started to prepare to remove all analog channels, and they are doing so this year all over the Los Angeles market, among others. Many other markets are also doing this.

To help the vote along, they came up with a proposal that until Jan 1st 2016, the DTA's are free. After that, they will be a maximum of $1.50 a month, and most charge $0.99,

Complaints can go to the GOP, but it won't do any good. A proposal to undo it won't likely be voted on again.

Quite frankly, it is about time they removed analog. The amount of bandwidth that can be used for internet or HD/4k television is actually quite substantial. All they are really doing is just removing the analog channels, and moving you to the digital version which has already been encrypted since the beginning of digital cable in the early 2000s. They now just have come up with a cheap digital tuner instead of a full box to tune in to them.

So yeah, I am OK with this. Completely.
maartena

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maartena to maikii

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to maikii
said by maikii:

Apparently it isn't really about going digital, but that they are scrambling almost all the channels, and you need their box to unscramble them, even for basic cable.

You did nail it on the head with this one. The cable-operator backed proposal that was voted on in 2012 with a Republican majority as outlined in my above post, is EXACTLY that: Cable operators are now allowed to encrypt/scramble all channels, - yes ALL channels - they put on their networks.

Their defence was mostly about cable theft, but indeed the real truth is of course always about money. The positive side effect of it is that now they can remove analog channels.

Suit Up
join:2003-07-21
Los Angeles, CA
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Suit Up to maikii

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to maikii
said by maikii:

They advertise that as a "transition to all-digital", blah blah blah.

It is, they just shot off all the analog channels. Which makes it all-digital, whereas before it was a hybrid of analog and digital.
said by maikii:

But TV stations have already been broadcasting digital for quite some time.

Doesn't matter what the stations have been doing. TWC has been still broadcasting in analog.
said by maikii:

Is there a complaint to FCC about this?

FCC gave them permission to encrypt all digital channels when the analogs are shut off.
said by maikii:

My TVs have digital tuners built in, yet I can hardly get any stations now. (Only C-Span and a couple others.)

All broadcast channels are still clear in my neighborhood.
said by maikii:

Will the FCC protect consumers from such extortion!

Nope.
etaadmin
join:2002-01-17
united state

etaadmin to maikii

Member

to maikii
said by maikii:

Only C-Span and a couple others.

C-span is a good channel to watch, maybe I'm biased because I like sci-fiction

Call TWC and get the adapter it only costs 99 cents.
PowerMac
join:2011-03-02
Anaheim, CA

PowerMac

Member

Yeah get Digital Adapter! They have HDMI input so you can watch HD channel too!
Expand your moderator at work
expertzero
join:2014-06-28

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expertzero to maikii

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Re: Digital Adapter Crap!

Free for a year. I get to watch channels in hd instead of measly 480p or 360

SoCalDude
join:2008-07-30
Oxnard, CA

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SoCalDude to PowerMac

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to PowerMac
said by PowerMac:

Yeah get Digital Adapter! They have HDMI input so you can watch HD channel too!

Do you get all the HD channels that you subscribe to, or just some of them?
PowerMac
join:2011-03-02
Anaheim, CA

PowerMac

Member

said by SoCalDude:

Do you get all the HD channels that you subscribe to, or just some of them?

Well, I have Dish for TV service so I don't know much about DTA.. But I know DTA will allow you watch channel 1 to 80? Can watch HD channels if available. DTA doesn't have VOD /guide/premium channels such as HBO or Showtime though.

LAKINGZ
@37.59.101.x

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LAKINGZ to maikii

Anon

to maikii
All paying customers got months of advanced notice . how did you miss it?
en103
join:2011-05-02

en103 to SoCalDude

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Just some.

Suit Up
join:2003-07-21
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said by SoCalDude:

Do you get all the HD channels that you subscribe to, or just some of them?

The DTAs can't get SDV channels. Hopefully with the all-digital transition, they'll be moving more channels off of SDV.

hobgoblin
Sortof Agoblin
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join:2001-11-25
Orchard Park, NY

hobgoblin

Premium Member

said by Suit Up:

The DTAs can't get SDV channels. Hopefully with the all-digital transition, they'll be moving more channels off of SDV.

I have seen the SD feeds moved off of SDV to be replaced by the HD Feed for exactly this reason.

Hob

maartena
Elmo
Premium Member
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA

1 recommendation

maartena to LAKINGZ

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to LAKINGZ
said by LAKINGZ :

All paying customers got months of advanced notice . how did you miss it?

I was wondering the same thing. If you have cable television on your bill, it will arrive by mail, AND by email. If you are paperless, it will be on the online statement when you login to pay your bill.

The propositions the FCC votes on don't get a lot of media attention, but this one was in the media several times in 2012. If you start to cry about it now, you really haven't been paying attention as of late.

motorola870
join:2008-12-07
Arlington, TX

motorola870 to Suit Up

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to Suit Up
said by Suit Up:

said by SoCalDude:

Do you get all the HD channels that you subscribe to, or just some of them?

The DTAs can't get SDV channels. Hopefully with the all-digital transition, they'll be moving more channels off of SDV.

yeah TWC moved like 34 HD channels off of SDV and moved the SD versions of those HD channels to SDV and the digital adapters in the Dallas are now have almost entirely an HD lineup for channels 30 thru 76 save for about a dozen or so channels.

compugeek0
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join:2002-07-30
localhost

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compugeek0 to maikii

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to maikii
said by maikii:

But TV stations have already been broadcasting digital for quite some time.

OTA is a different type of signal called ATSC while cable uses NTSC for broadcasting. But almost all if not all new TV's can receive both.
said by maikii:

This seems like some kind of scam by TWC to increase their control, and add a revenue stream with this digital adapter leasing. It has nothing to do with transition to digital. Modern TVs are already digital, and should not need an "adapter".

Actually the reason they are moving to all digital and scrambled is multi-layered. One reason is they can reclaim the analog space and put more digital content into the same space. So that one digital carrier can be filled with a new cable modem downstream or up to 15 video channels. Another reason is cable theft. It isn't like the old days where you could just tap a cable drop and you can get TV. So since it is all digital and scrambled there isn't any way to watch anything. So at the same time less people that break into the cable lines because now they know it is useless the less leakage and over time the more reliable the cable becomes because people aren't breaking the lines like they used to because it doesn't do them any good(good?) to do so.
said by maikii:

It is a scam of major proportions, and should not be allowed? Fine to transition to all-digital, but there should be no requirement to lease their adapter! Will the FCC protect consumers from such extortion!

I don't see how it is scam since just able every other cable/satellite company requires you to have a box on each TV.
Leedogg
join:2005-08-15
Johnsonville, SC

Leedogg to maikii

Member

to maikii
On our cable lineup here, the DTAs show up almost every basic channel HD feed. except for like 5 channels.

One question though: In my area, Fox Sports 1 is on channel 400. And part of Standard TV lineup. I thought that the DTAs get every standard TV channel? Because when I try to go to channel 400 on the DTAs it does nothing. I'm guessing that both the SD and HD feed is on SDV. I've tried calling TWC, and they say I have to put either a box or DVR on each tv to get that channel. Because I would love to get that channel on my other tvs.

maartena
Elmo
Premium Member
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA

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maartena to compugeek0

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to compugeek0
said by compugeek0:

said by maikii:

But TV stations have already been broadcasting digital for quite some time.

OTA is a different type of signal called ATSC while cable uses NTSC for broadcasting. But almost all if not all new TV's can receive both.

One correction: ATSC is the over-the-air digital HD signal, while NTSC is the old style analog signal. The on-cable equivalent of ATSC would be QAM. You are right though, virtually all televisions that can do ATSC, can also do QAM. (and NTSC/Analog).

I don't see how it is scam since just able every other cable/satellite company requires you to have a box on each TV.

Exactly. Everyone was already allowed to not only require a box, but also to allow encryption on all channels including locals. Due to history, cable television was the last holdout. The vote that took place at the FCC in 2012 finally allowed to the cable companies to also remove analog as they were now allowed to encrypt all channels. (There was no sense encrypting analog itself, as the digital signal was already encrypted. But now they could remove the analog channels and just leave the digital ones).

DocDrew
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said by maartena:

There was no sense encrypting analog itself, as the digital signal was already encrypted. But now they could remove the analog channels and just leave the digital ones

Not quite. Digital wasn't always encrypted. Many areas still see much of basic and expanded basic as "clearQAM" which is unencrypted digital. Besides dropping analog, TWC is encrypting all the digital in most areas so if you don't have a DTA, cable box, or CableCard device you get nothing.

maartena
Elmo
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join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA

1 recommendation

maartena

Premium Member

said by DocDrew:

said by maartena:

There was no sense encrypting analog itself, as the digital signal was already encrypted. But now they could remove the analog channels and just leave the digital ones

Not quite. Digital wasn't always encrypted. Many areas still see much of basic and expanded basic as "clearQAM" which is unencrypted digital. Besides dropping analog, TWC is encrypting all the digital in most areas so if you don't have a DTA, cable box, or CableCard device you get nothing.

Yep. I wish they replaced the CableCard system with something better though. Samsung now has partnered with DirecTV now to make televisions that can hook up to DirecTV without the need of a box. If they would just come up with a standard that could be implemented into televisions, and people could just authorize their TV's by connected MAC address on a website or something, the whole DTA/Cable Card thing isn't needed.

Suit Up
join:2003-07-21
Los Angeles, CA
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said by maartena:

Yep. I wish they replaced the CableCard system with something better though. Samsung now has partnered with DirecTV now to make televisions that can hook up to DirecTV without the need of a box. If they would just come up with a standard that could be implemented into televisions, and people could just authorize their TV's by connected MAC address on a website or something, the whole DTA/Cable Card thing isn't needed.

My dream would be for a device that gets plugged in to where the coax comes in to the premises which then decrypts everything you are subscribed to and sends it on it's way inside your house using standard QAM, so that every digital TV could view them without needing a box. Of course, TWC would never go for that since they love to mark everything copy-once...

DocDrew
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said by Suit Up:

My dream would be for a device that gets plugged in to where the coax comes in to the premises which then decrypts everything you are subscribed to and sends it on it's way inside your house using standard QAM, so that every digital TV could view them without needing a box.

Broadcasters and channel owners are the ones who really would scream and not let that happen. They want their content protected.
DocDrew

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DocDrew to maartena

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to maartena
said by maartena:

Yep. I wish they replaced the CableCard system with something better though.

Comcast and Tivo are working on it now:
»www.multichannel.com/new ··· h/375989

Suit Up
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Suit Up to DocDrew

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said by DocDrew:

Broadcasters and channel owners are the ones who really would scream and not let that happen. They want their content protected.

I know that is TWC's official policy and you have to repeat it, but the fact that other cable companies, like Comcast, do not mark every channel copy-once, proves that is not true.

And it's pretty evident that encrypting content does not prevent piracy (just look at all the DVD and BluRay rips you can find on the internet), it only makes it harder for those who are trying to use content legally to watch it.

DocDrew
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DocDrew

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said by Suit Up:

said by DocDrew:

Broadcasters and channel owners are the ones who really would scream and not let that happen. They want their content protected.

I know that is TWC's official policy and you have to repeat it, but the fact that other cable companies, like Comcast, do not mark every channel copy-once, proves that is not true.

I have no idea what TWCs official policy is on that. I wish I knew why they marked most content copy-once.

I'm just looking at the history of consumer electronics, copy-protection schemes, and DRM usage. Most content owners have demanded end-to-end content protection abilities for years, even when it's broken almost immediately after release and doesn't prevent piracy.

The proposal by the FCC for AllVid (CableCard successor) was supposed to do something like what you wanted, but it output on ethernet using DCTP-IP, which can pass on copy protection tags.

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said by DocDrew:

The proposal by the FCC for AllVid (CableCard successor) was supposed to do something like what you wanted, but it output on ethernet using DCTP-IP, which can pass on copy protection tags.

AllVid isn't a bad idea, except most TVs don't support DCTP-IP right now. And for the ones that do, navigating between channels is not as simple as just punching the number in on the remote.
maikii
join:2012-08-08
Pacific Palisades, CA

maikii to maartena

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to maartena
The fact is though, that to remove analog channels and make it all-digital, would not require the use of such a box on every TV.

They could simply provide all-digital channels. Modern HDTVs could play the channels, without any kind of adapter.

But instead, they scramble the channels, and then require you to lease a box from them on each TV to unscramble them.

So it is not about switching to all-digital, but about extorting money, with a box that can only be leased from them, that one has to have for each TV, a separate tuner and remote, etc.

Sure-free at first, then $1 per box, but just wait--in a couple years it will likely be $10 monthly per box.

To me there is a loss of convenience as well, having to have a separate box for tuning, more cables, more complicated for wall-mounted TVs, etc.

I wish the FCC had required them to keep the basic cable option requiring no box, and there could have been a transition to all-digital without the need for a box or more cost to the consumer.

But the corporations can buy the politicians, unfortunately.