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Needleinthha

join:2009-11-30

Cox gigabit technology?

Cox gigabit speeds are supposed to go live this fall in phoenix (and other places). Does anyone know what they will be using to get those speeds? Specifically, will they be using something like the SB6183 which has 16 channels downstream, does that give enough bandwidth? Or will it be something else? I'm wondering because I want to upgrade my modem from docsis 2.0 but don't want to buy something if it won't be gigabit compatible this fall...

lilstone87

join:2009-04-09
Portsmouth, VA
kudos:3
Has to be something else, as even with a 16 channel downstream modem. You're only looking at realistic numbers of a little over 600mbps of bandwidth, with them 16 channel's, and that's with no load on any of the channel's.

Needleinthha

join:2009-11-30
said by lilstone87:

Has to be something else, as even with a 16 channel downstream modem. You're only looking at realistic numbers of a little over 600mbps of bandwidth, with them 16 channel's, and that's with no load on any of the channel's.

thats what I thought, that 16 channels wouldn't be enough...I assume then it would just be ~24 channels downstream? ive read about 24 channel modems being developed...or will it be a different technology like FTTH?

lilstone87

join:2009-04-09
Portsmouth, VA
kudos:3
I personally think it has something to do with fiber, and they have been promoting the shit out of this on there twitter feed lately. No detail's, but just talking about gigalife coming soon. Also to me, this is just marketing at it's best. What I mean by this, is it's gonna cost a arm, and a leg to get.

PinkyThePig
Premium
join:2011-05-02
Tempe, AZ
Reviews:
·Cox HSI

1 edit
reply to Needleinthha
They would have to go with something else.

16 channels has a theoretical max of 686.08 (608) Mbit/s and even 24 channels has a theoretical max of 1029.12 (912) Mbit/s. In real world though, that would require every channel to be perfect.

Even then, if they stuck with docsis 3.0, that would limit upstream significantly.

I would imagine they would be likely to use either the 24 channel one, or their own modem. Which one they decide on would ultimately depend on how they intend to implement gigabit. If it will be symetrical, they will need to implement their own modem. If it will be lopsided as it is now, then a 24 channel modem would be a possibility, although their own modem would still be a high possiblity due to 24 channel being likely to never quite reach 1 gigabit.

EDIT: On the above numbers I quoted at the start, the number in parenthesis is the maximum attainable bandwidth, the initial number is the total bandwidth, including overhead.

Also, I forgot to add that it is possible they will use docsis 3.1 (as it supports 10gbit down, 1 up) but the spec for that was just recently released and it is unknown whether that will have been enough time for hardware manufacturers to build equipment.


Hard Harry

join:2010-10-19
Narragansett, RI
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Cox HSI
said by PinkyThePig:

16 channels has a theoretical max of 686.08 (608) Mbit/s and even 24 channels has a theoretical max of 1029.12 (912) Mbit/s. In real world though, that would require every channel to be perfect.

I think one of the techs here has confirmed it will use 24 channel downstream modems, and thats one of the reason they beta tested the SB6183 so early. As for speed, all they have to do is include the caveat "up to" 1000Mbps and CYA. If it has a unlimited cap, and cost under 200/month, it may be worth it IMO, for super power users. They need something to push Ultimate users to whom have gone over their cap. Fiber would be a whole new ball game. Even on the Business side 1Gbps fiber lines are pretty rare and quite expensive, ballparking 600-1000$ a month.


odog
Cable Centric Vendor Biased
Premium,VIP
join:2001-08-05
Atlanta, GA
kudos:17
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to Needleinthha
It'll be GPON, DOCSIS, and Ethernet.

»www.telecompetitor.com/ambitious···titor%29

Needleinthha

join:2009-11-30
said by odog:

It'll be GPON, DOCSIS, and Ethernet.

»www.telecompetitor.com/ambitious···titor%29

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but what does that mean? That means they'll use either one of those 3 for each area depending on what would work best or they are actually using a hybrid that uses all 3 technologies for every user?


Hard Harry

join:2010-10-19
Narragansett, RI
kudos:2
reply to odog
Isn't that just saying its HFC just with more F and less C? Also, GPON sounds like code word for FTTH like how they don't like to call their voice platform VOIP, it's CDT-PS. ::facepalm::

Why just not say "We are not telling"?


billaustin
they call me Mr. Bill
Premium,MVM
join:2001-10-13
North Las Vegas, NV
kudos:5

1 edit
reply to Needleinthha
At the very end of the article it states:

"UPDATE later May 22: A Cox spokeswoman confirmed that the company’s market-wide gigabit deployments would begin no later than year-end 2016 but the deployments wouldn’t necessarily be completed by that date. The company will use a combination of DOCSIS, GPON and active Ethernet to deliver gigabit service, the spokeswoman said."

I would image that means they will use whatever is easiest in each location, in whatever combination necessary, to provide the service.


dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4
reply to Needleinthha
I'm already seeing this where they're spending money on advertising "gig life". lite rail trains wrapped with it. doubtful they'll even come near google on pricing though.
--
Despises any post with strings.


dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4
reply to billaustin
code for we'll cherrypick the areas we want and take forever on the rest.
--
Despises any post with strings.

sparky007

join:2011-08-25
Avondale, AZ
reply to Needleinthha
Some of the upgrades they will be doing now are FTTH.

Around 2016 Docsis 3.1 will be out..
Docsis 3.1 will be able to handle 10 gig down and 1 gig up.. Some of the cable companies already have Docsis 3.1 modems strictly for trials.


kv2009

join:2009-09-14
Kenner, LA
reply to Needleinthha
Will there be any conversion from coax to GPON or AE? I would love some FTTH in the New Orleans area. Is AE feasible in densely populated areas? If not, at what kind of locations would Cox be looking for AE deployment?

Rakeesh

join:2011-10-30
Mesa, AZ
Reviews:
·Sprint Mobile Br..
·Cox HSI

1 edit
reply to Hard Harry
said by Hard Harry:

Isn't that just saying its HFC just with more F and less C? Also, GPON sounds like code word for FTTH like how they don't like to call their voice platform VOIP, it's CDT-PS. ::facepalm::

Why just not say "We are not telling"?

GPON is kinda pointless if it isn't FTTH. PON means Passive Optical Network. Basically we have a single fiber that transmits a large quantity of data to multiple physical locations at once. That isn't terribly useful for HFC.

If I were to read between the lines, I think it would go something like this:

New apartments: The whole complex is ethernet wired (chances are we can cover the whole thing in multiple 100 meter lengths.)
New neighborhoods: GPON (chances are ethernet won't reach far enough.)
Existing neighborhoods way way way later: (2016 timeframe) Docsis 3.1

Odog, can we get a simple "no comment" reply if not an outright deny/confirm?


dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4
reply to sparky007
10gigs is an awful lot of channels. analog cable would have to be gone. QAM1024?
--
Despises any post with strings.

Maltz

join:2011-01-08
Fayetteville, AR
said by dvd536:

10gigs is an awful lot of channels. analog cable would have to be gone. QAM1024?

and QAM4096. But yeah, the writing's on the wall for analog. Here are a couple of articles with some specifics:

Docsis 3.1 Targets 10-Gig Downstream

Docsis 3.1 Will Change Cable's Data Channels


Termites

@174.79.1.x
I can see the ads already for Cox Gigabit service,

Welcome to Cox Fiber,

to upgrade your service please contact one of the Cox Reps which will help you on this Process
the Connection fee will be $250 Fiber service will be $170 for the first 6 months then $250...

Dont by into their Lies..

GOOGLEFIBER ALL THE WAY.. $70 1gig up down no CAPS..

Rakeesh

join:2011-10-30
Mesa, AZ
Reviews:
·Sprint Mobile Br..
·Cox HSI
said by Termites :

I can see the ads already for Cox Gigabit service,

Welcome to Cox Fiber,

to upgrade your service please contact one of the Cox Reps which will help you on this Process
the Connection fee will be $250 Fiber service will be $170 for the first 6 months then $250...

Dont by into their Lies..

GOOGLEFIBER ALL THE WAY.. $70 1gig up down no CAPS..

I think that is jumping the gun quite a bit.


kv2009

join:2009-09-14
Kenner, LA
reply to Needleinthha
Probably jumping the gun, yeah. But I wouldn't put it past them. Cable and DSL companies are notorious for large monthly payments, limited bandwidth, and caps on data transferred per month. There are multiple FTTH companies that provide the opposite, including Google Fiber, Verizon FIOS, LUS Fiber, etc etc.

If Cox plans on providing FTTH, they should be similarly priced per tier of speed per month. But unfortunately, I'd bet any Cox DOCSIS 3.1 service will have a higher monthly payment when compared to Cox FTTH service.


dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4
reply to Rakeesh
yeah. if google fibre ever became avail here, i'd drop cox in a heartbeat. i'm *already* paying more than what google fibre costs!
--
Despises any post with strings.

Maltz

join:2011-01-08
Fayetteville, AR
reply to kv2009
To be fair, Verizon FIOS costs $69/mo for 75/75, $129/mo for 150/150, and $300/mo for 500/500. LUS fiber is owned and subsidized by the city of Lafayette, LA. And Google fiber is likely subsidized by data mining your activity for targeted advertising, just like every other service Google offers.

Comparing any of those to Cox is kind of Apples and Oranges.

tronester3

join:2008-08-10
Tulsa, OK
Reviews:
·Cox HSI
reply to dvd536
said by dvd536:

yeah. if google fibre ever became avail here, i'd drop cox in a heartbeat. i'm *already* paying more than what google fibre costs!

Me too, I'm paying $66 a month for 50/10. Google only charges like $10 more for symmetric gigabit!

More importantly, they don't have a crappy 300 gigabyte a month data cap!

Rakeesh

join:2011-10-30
Mesa, AZ
Reviews:
·Sprint Mobile Br..
·Cox HSI
said by tronester3:

More importantly, they don't have a crappy 300 gigabyte a month data cap!

Why are you guys complaining about the data cap? They never seem to enforce the thing. I mean shit, I'm a serial abuser of going way over the cap, and all I get is a stupid email twice a month.

davidhoffman
Premium
join:2009-11-19
Warner Robins, GA
kudos:3
Because it is like those irritating people who sometimes check your bags as you exit Wal-Mart. Some days you get stopped, some days you do not. But it is a pointless exercise of showing that you are under their thumb. The Wal-Mart checker is a leftover from when video surveillance was expensive, now Wal-Mart can have multiple overlapping surveillance cameras that take in the entire inside and outside of the property. but they leave the bag checkers just to keep their reputation for theft control intact with security theater. I had one who watched me go through the express line closest to the exit area, and she still wanted to look in the bag and at the receipt. She stood there watching and thought I was a thief? What about all the security the cashier did? She looked over to make sure I did not leave something in the pushcart, either by accident or on purpose. No the bag/receipt checking lady just decided she could irritate someone, so she did.

Cox has no legitimate reason to have caps, at least not the low ones they have today, thus no reason for twice a month e-mails. They have an extensive capability to traffic shape and limit to deal with any temporary congestion occurring on any particular node. But they want to remind you that they are your overlords and can take away your internet connection based on any illogical reasoning they see fit to use. If little Sonic.net does not need such low caps, then big Cox sure does not.

Rakeesh

join:2011-10-30
Mesa, AZ
Reviews:
·Sprint Mobile Br..
·Cox HSI

1 edit
said by davidhoffman:

Because it is like those irritating people who sometimes check your bags as you exit Wal-Mart. Some days you get stopped, some days you do not. But it is a pointless exercise of showing that you are under their thumb.

No, I know exactly why they do that. Sometimes customers hide shit from the cashier as they check out, paying for some things and not others, and then walk out with it. I've seen it before plenty of times; I used to work retail.

Security cameras are very little use against this because they can't see every angle.

It depends on the individual walmart though, some do that, some don't. Walmarts located in or near "the hood" do that and a lot more, whereas walmarts in upscale areas don't even bother with security cameras. Hell those ones don't even bother with those plastic lock boxes for high risk items; they just display them out in the open. They (and all other retail stores) have different geographic risk categories that they classify each individual store as depending on the local crime statistics. The higher risk the area, the higher the classification it gets, and thus the more they spend on security.

I know the walmart on McKellips and Greenfield doesn't have bag checkers, and the walmart on Stapley and Baseline does.

Maltz

join:2011-01-08
Fayetteville, AR
said by Rakeesh:

said by davidhoffman:

Because it is like those irritating people who sometimes check your bags as you exit Wal-Mart. Some days you get stopped, some days you do not. But it is a pointless exercise of showing that you are under their thumb.

No, I know exactly why they do that. Sometimes customers hide shit from the cashier as they check out, paying for some things and not others, and then walk out with it. I've seen it before plenty of times; I used to work retail.

Security cameras are very little use against this because they can't see every angle.

It depends on the individual walmart though, some do that, some don't. Walmarts located in or near "the hood" do that and a lot more, whereas walmarts in upscale areas don't even bother with security cameras. Hell those ones don't even bother with those plastic lock boxes for high risk items; they just display them out in the open. They (and all other retail stores) have different geographic risk categories that they classify each individual store as depending on the local crime statistics. The higher risk the area, the higher the classification it gets, and thus the more they spend on security.

I know the walmart on McKellips and Greenfield doesn't have bag checkers, and the walmart on Stapley and Baseline does.

Yeah, I shop there all the time, and I've never been stopped or seen anyone be stopped on their way out of a Wal Mart unless they set off the anti-theft alarms. I'm sure it depends greatly on the location of the store, and probably even someone's demeanor while shopping. I wouldn't be surprised if security flagged people based on their behavior, perhaps in addition to occasional random stops.

ALL locations are pretty well covered by cameras, though, for liability purposes, if nothing else.


dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4
reply to davidhoffman
its not about congestion its about protecting LEGACY TV revenues.
thats why caps dont go up as speeds go up.
--
Despises any post with strings.


dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4
reply to Maltz
Walmart profiles you as you enter the store. if you enter wearing grungy dirty clothes, you're more likely to be hassled by LP than the businessman in a shirt and tie.
--
Despises any post with strings.

davidhoffman
Premium
join:2009-11-19
Warner Robins, GA
kudos:3
reply to dvd536
True, but outdated. From what I have read, people who do a lot of online gaming and frequently download new legally obtained games could go through most monthly caps easily, without ever watching a single Netflix movie. The push to do work at home operations is hindered by low caps and severe asymmetrical speeds, too little upload speed. Some content is only available from websites, it almost never shows up on pay TV or OTA broadcast TV. I would hope Cox will soon recognize these growing trends and understand that Cox needs to figure out a better way to make a profit than low caps on internet usage.