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Samir
join:2010-02-06
Madison, AL

Samir to wowMike

Member

to wowMike

Re: 1-5% Packet Loss

PM sent, but is unread?
Samir

Samir to rustybx

Member

to rustybx
Your ping looks good though--no loss. Do you mind telling me the first two octets of your IP address? I think the problem is with a certain pool of IPs and my last experiment before I ditch wow is to change ours to another pool and see what happens.
Samir

Samir to rustybx

Member

to rustybx
Ah, scratch that request for the IP. Well, your IP is in the same 69 class that ours is. But it's different for sure as ours is a 69.73.x.x.

Do you mind running a traceroute to Chicago and posting the Atlanta part of your route? I'm curious which hops along the way are the same for us. I should be able to use this to narrow down which hop on their side is the problem.
Samir

Samir to mwoodj

Member

to mwoodj
Can you run the test on netalyzr.icsi.berkeley.edu and tell me what errors you get?
Samir

Samir to rustybx

Member

to rustybx
I have found conclusive evidence that this packet loss is WOW's problem.

Every one of us can hit the service screen of our modem at 192.168.100.1. This IP is typically outside of our LAN range when using a router (unless you're using 192.168.x.x and a 255.255.0.0 subnet mask), so your router has to forward the packet to its WAN port for it to resolve. This packet is now outside your network. It is not on the WOW network because it is not hitting the default gateway assigned to the public IP address, but it is definitely outside your network.

And what did I find? 0% packet loss to 192.168.100.1 from our LAN. If there was an issue with our equipment (as wow has suggested), then I would have seen loss during this test.
rustybx
join:2014-01-06

rustybx to Samir

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to Samir
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Tried tracert from cmd line...every time reports destination host unreachable. I probably not doing it right. What's the IP of the Chicago server?

So I went to pingdom.com and did a couple from the browser. Screengrabs attached. I'm a bit out of my league so I don't know if this means anything.

Samir
join:2010-02-06
Madison, AL

Samir

Member

You pings look fine. I wonder why pingtest.net called yours a B. You have no packet loss (unlike us others in this thread), and the time is pretty low.

Try doing a tracert on this IP address for a Chicago server: 8.30.242.1. Post the results as I want to see what hops are different from my connection.
Samir

1 edit

Samir

Member

I tested changing the MAC address to get another IP from another pool. Well, it was another IP address, but from the same class--and it had 5% packet loss!

Spoke to a WOW csr earlier today to try to get an IP from another pool. Apparently the only two things csr are given the ability to do is roll a truck or forward the issue to the local office--that's it. They can't communicate with the network engineers or anyone else who can actually fix something like this.

I'm calling Charter on Monday to schedule their install.
rustybx
join:2014-01-06

rustybx

Member

Click for full size
Have you talked with wowmike or wowdan? You've had this issue for what 6 months now? Seems like they would want to dig in before losing a 10 year customer.

Samir
join:2010-02-06
Madison, AL

Samir

Member

Thank you, but I just noticed that this traceroute is coming from pingdom, which won't help.

Mike PM'd me for my MAC address and I've given him that. I'm actually quite surprised too. But if this is wow's management's new attitude towards their customers, then what can we do.

mwoodj
join:2001-10-27
Madison, AL

mwoodj to Samir

Member

to Samir
Here is my traceroute to that address. I got 1% packet loss to that address in testing just now.

$ traceroute 8.30.242.1
traceroute to 8.30.242.1 (8.30.242.1), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
 1  router.asus.com (192.168.0.1)  0.277 ms  0.347 ms  0.422 ms
 2  10.172.0.1 (10.172.0.1)  10.175 ms  11.214 ms  11.409 ms
 3  user-24-96-35-190.knology.net (24.96.35.190)  12.117 ms  12.253 ms  12.322 ms
 4  user-24-96-198-229.knology.net (24.96.198.229)  11.438 ms  11.420 ms  15.611 ms
 5  gaatlapo0edgj01.knology.net (76.73.147.205)  22.735 ms *  24.668 ms
 6  atl-bb1-link.telia.net (80.239.193.61)  26.764 ms  25.574 ms  25.564 ms
 7  chi-b21-link.telia.net (62.115.143.60)  32.436 ms chi-b21-link.telia.net (62.115.143.62)  27.816 ms chi-b21-link.telia.net (62.115.143.60)  31.028 ms
 8  * * *
 9  * HOTWIRE-COM.ear1.Chicago2.Level3.net (4.30.175.74)  39.774 ms *
 
mwoodj

mwoodj to Samir

Member

to Samir
--- 8.30.242.1 ping statistics ---
100 packets transmitted, 97 received, 3% packet loss, time 99129ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 31.250/51.267/194.499/35.287 ms
 

bdnhsv
join:2012-01-20
Huntsville, AL

bdnhsv to mwoodj

Member

to mwoodj
Do you have 2 routers back to back in your house/office? It appears as if you are double NAT'd (hops 1 & 2).

Samir
join:2010-02-06
Madison, AL

Samir to mwoodj

Member

to mwoodj
Thank you! Yep, that's the same issue I have except I'm going through 10.172.128.1 as the first hop outside my network. Looks like it isn't the first few hops since we both have different routes. The only thing in common is the edge router itself, 76.73.147.205. Try running a ping to that address and see if you have any loss. I'm doing the same right now.
Samir

Samir to mwoodj

Member

to mwoodj
Thank you! That's what I'm basically showing too:
www.google.com64.233.176.10620 ms0 %
www.yahoo.com98.139.180.149Timeout1 %
www.bing.com204.79.197.20020 ms1 %
www.ask.com64.86.201.10720 ms1 %
 
Samir

Samir to bdnhsv

Member

to bdnhsv
The 10.172.x.x network is the first hop. I have one too on my traceroute to the same address.

mwoodj
join:2001-10-27
Madison, AL

mwoodj to Samir

Member

to Samir
I only have one router. When I looked at the results the same address jumped out to me as it seemed the most inconsistent as the number of packets returned varies. It either drops packets or has icmp rate limiting:

gaatlapo0edgj01.knology.net (76.73.147.205) 22.735 ms * 24.668 ms

Samir
join:2010-02-06
Madison, AL

Samir

Member

Dropping packets all the time can be normal on core routers, but dropping every so often is definitely a problem. What does a ping to it look like?

WOW_James
Premium Member
join:2014-12-04
Woodland, GA

WOW_James to mwoodj

Premium Member

to mwoodj
said by mwoodj:

I only have one router. When I looked at the results the same address jumped out to me as it seemed the most inconsistent as the number of packets returned varies. It either drops packets or has icmp rate limiting:

gaatlapo0edgj01.knology.net (76.73.147.205) 22.735 ms * 24.668 ms

This is pretty normal to a core router. We rate limit ICMP to the addresses on the router to protect the RE for issues.

We see no packet loss on the network to any of the destinations you have listed. I am looking into it more. Its few enough packets where it may be hard to see.

James

Samir
join:2010-02-06
Madison, AL

Samir

Member

As an update, the business lead and his supervisor have identified an issue affecting our entire node. They were able to replicate the packet loss when they came to our site.

Since WOW had just started offering a 110/15 business package and the 15 is what we needed anyways, we signed up for that--at 3x the cost of what we were paying for residential service.

I was hoping this alone would get us on another node/IP and solve this issue. It did not.

After two days, the business lead came to our site to verify the issue and was able to confirm it. FINALLY!! Someone from WOW is actually doing something.

There is a maintenance team scheduled to do repair work on the node this upcoming Mon/Tues. Hopefully this will fix this problem once and for all.

As an aside, the 15 up is fabulous! When it was working right the first few days (we can't even hit 10 right now), we saw bursts of 18 up and I was able to work soooo much faster. I can't wait for this to be fixed. I have a hell of a lot of backlogged work to do.

mwoodj
join:2001-10-27
Madison, AL

mwoodj

Member

That's great news. I hope they can finally clear this problem up.

Samir
join:2010-02-06
Madison, AL

Samir

Member

I don't know what node you are on, but if it's the same as mine, then yes. Otherwise, I'd get in touch with business support and let them know there is a node problem that residential service can't find.

I'm afraid the arrival of a winter storm will delay the fix. I just hope the service doesn't go down because I can't work if it does.
Samir

Samir to mwoodj

Member

to mwoodj
Well, it's been over 20 days since we signed up for the 110/15 business service, and it is *still* not being delivered. In fact, speeds are actually WORSE than the residential account right now, with even more packet loss.
www.google.com173.194.219.10620 ms1 %
www.yahoo.com98.139.180.14950 ms2 %
www.bing.com204.79.197.20020 ms1 %
www.ask.com24.96.54.1130 ms1 %
 
I'm calling every day to get the status that it's being 'worked on', but after almost a month, my patience is almost at its end.
hotwasabi
join:2008-06-15
Westerville, OH

hotwasabi to Samir

Member

to Samir
Add me to the WOW Packet Loss Club:



Samir
join:2010-02-06
Madison, AL

Samir

Member

Welcome!

I've seen several threads that seem to have packet loss problems as well, mainly due to upgrades or infrastructure changes by wow.

Nevertheless, it shouldn't take moving to a business service to fix the issue. And it sure shouldn't take this long either.
hotwasabi
join:2008-06-15
Westerville, OH

hotwasabi

Member

Yeah I'm not happy either. I just switched to WOW last week because they offer the fastest speed in Columbus right now. I had U-Verse for the past year and I could only get 24Mbps as the fastest tier. The WOW rep that came to my door told me that the 110Mbps speed was guaranteed. Well that hasn't been my experience for the past few days. Also I have never had a problem with packet loss when I had U-Verse nor when I lived in Cleveland and had Cox for years (I miss their 150/20 line! - it was great). I'll see what plays out in the next week with my WOW connection but, if it doesn't improve, I'll switch back to U-Verse. At least with them I had a reliable connection, albeit a little slow, but I never had to go through this constant daily ritual of packet loss and speed slowdowns in the evening hours.

Samir
join:2010-02-06
Madison, AL

Samir

Member

I'm not sure how wow is, but knology was like this too until they got their networks straight, but then it was good. If you've got the stomach to wait a month, it might be worth it.

I miss our FIOS line when we were in NYC--75/35 all day long and 500/150 available too.
Samir

Samir to hotwasabi

Member

to hotwasabi
I think their slogan in the logo at the top of the forum says it all:
Samir

1 edit

Samir

Member

An update on my issue. The local networking supervisor now updates me directly with what's going on. The weather has definitely not been cooperative in getting the diagnosis done, but they're checking things one-by-one.

The most recent results were a good 12Mbps upload when a tech was connected directly to the tap after fixing a few things down the line. But even with 12 outside, it's been less than 4 inside, sometimes not even breaking 3.5 in the last two days. This is even worse than what I had on a residential account.

As long as they keep working on it and updating me, I'll give them a chance to get it right.

bdnhsv
join:2012-01-20
Huntsville, AL

bdnhsv

Member

You are definitely a much more patient person than I am my friend. I hope they have at least been giving you copious credits for your understanding and loyalty.