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Gone
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join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

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Re: [Rant] Ebola quarantine

said by Kitlope:

why, because we North American's are immune to it?

said by Gone:
Because Ebola isn't as contagious as most people think. And even on the off chance that someone ended up with Ebola here in North America, you still wouldn't have the wide-spread outbreaks like you have in Africa right now, and you'd have a much greater rate of survival even if you caught it.
Quite simply, North Americans don't live in squalor with tents for a hospital, ditches for toilets or our living rooms for mortuaries. And for those reasons, what is going on in Africa will never happen here.

EbolaHere
@73.160.110.x

EbolaHere to ZZZZZZZ

Anon

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said by ZZZZZZZ:

»www.cnbc.com/id/102037055

And from CNBC as well...........the panic will start now.

You bet it will. Dallas is ground zero. It starts spreading from there. The CDC is trying hard to play it down. In other words a coverup of the potential disaster unfolding. When are we going to stop all travel to Africa and refuse to accept any air travelers from there?

»www.cnbc.com/id/102046854

Tom Frieden, the CDC's director, said the patient had come from Liberia, and did not show any symptoms when he arrived in the U.S. on Sept. 20. During a news conference late Tuesday afternoon, Frieden said the situation is being closely monitored.

"It is certainly possible that someone who had contact with this individual ... could develop Ebola in the coming weeks," he said.

According to Frieden, public health officials will be working to identify all of those who may have had contact with the patient while he could have been infectious. Once identified, these individuals will be monitored for 21 days to see if they develop symptoms, he said.

That statement should not be "Once identified", but "IF identified". This guy was out amongst many after symptoms appeared and before treatment began. Will they find everyone? I think not.

PlusOne
@73.160.110.x

PlusOne to Gone

Anon

to Gone
said by Gone:

Meh. Even if it is Ebola, there is little reason for us to be concerned.

That is the way - stick your head in the sand.

Gone
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join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

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Haha. Whatever. Someone left the door unlocked tonight.
Gone

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said by PlusOne :

That is the way - stick your head in the sand.

I stick my head in books. Not sand.
PX Eliezer1
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join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

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PX Eliezer1 to Kitlope

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to Kitlope
said by Kitlope:

said by Gone:

Meh. Even if it is Ebola, there is little reason for us to be concerned.

why, because we North American's are immune to it?

A more immediate threat is the upcoming flu season.
»www.pharmacists.ca/index ··· sources/

As [Gone] said, conditions for the spread of Ebola in Canada and the US are far different than in Africa, in pretty much every way.

Canada will be in even better shape than the US, because of more accessible and better organized health care, and better organized (more uniform) public health agencies.

As well:

Airborne Ebola Is Extremely Unlikely, Expert Says

....the New York Times published an op-ed from infectious disease expert Michael T. Osterholm of the University of Minnesota called “What We’re Afraid To Say About Ebola.” In the piece, Osterholm addresses the dangerous possibility that Ebola, which is currently spread via direct contact with infected bodily fluids, could mutate and become transmittable through the air.

Osterholm is right in saying that possibility would be terrifying, but other experts say he’s off-base when it comes to how likely that situation is—and how concerned infectious disease experts should be about it.

“I am asked this often,” says Dr. Anthony Fauci, the director of the NIH's National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID). “The answer is always going to be ‘yes , it’s possible,’ but then people wind up in a panic. Practically speaking, it is not likely. I could never tell the New York Times editorial board that they’re wrong because it’s not impossible. But it’s very unusual for a virus to change how it’s transmitted.”

»time.com/3342305/airbone ··· ppening/


Jackorama
I Am Woman
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join:2008-05-23
Kingston, ON

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said by Gone:

said by Kitlope:

why, because we North American's are immune to it?

said by Gone:
Because Ebola isn't as contagious as most people think. And even on the off chance that someone ended up with Ebola here in North America, you still wouldn't have the wide-spread outbreaks like you have in Africa right now, and you'd have a much greater rate of survival even if you caught it.
Quite simply, North Americans don't live in squalor with tents for a hospital, ditches for toilets or our living rooms for mortuaries. And for those reasons, what is going on in Africa will never happen here.

What you said and we don't leave the dead (who died of Ebola) laying in the street rotting as people walk around and over them in bare feet. »www.dailymail.co.uk/news ··· ria.html & »www.dailymail.co.uk/news ··· and.html

arpawocky
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Columbus, OH

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In the current outbreak in Sierra Leone, Ebola has at least a 70% mortality rate. Ie., Survival rate is at most 30%

In the U.S., there have already been 4 cases. 3 of the victims have made full recoveries, and one (the dude airflighted to Atlanta) is TBD.

If the prognosis looks that good in the U.S., its probably even better in Canada.

I wonder what the survival rate is for influenza in Sierra Leone..

I wonder what the survival rate is for strep throat in Sierra Leone..

DKS
Damn Kidney Stones

join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON

DKS to ZZZZZZZ

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A really good Q & A about Ebola from faculty at the Dalla Lana School of Public Health at the University of Toronto. Is there a risk? Yes. Is it a big risk in Canada? No.
quote:
While we may see Ebola cases imported into Canada, the major impact of the current outbreak on the Canadian health-care system is likely to come in the form of scares. Toronto is very connected globally. People return from abroad with fever quite frequently and it’s often malaria or dengue fever. Now, people who develop fever after travel to West Africa may elicit Ebola-related concerns, and this has already happened. We need to remember that the risk of this disease remains extremely low in Canada.

As with SARS, it is possible that an Ebola case cared for in Canada could affect other individuals, such as health-care workers or family members. However, even in such a worst case scenario, we are unlikely to see much transmission in Canada due to the concern such an event would elicit, and the resources available to prevent spread.

In Ontario, SARS helped strengthen investment in hospital infection control, and in public health labs and agencies, and the linkages between the health-care and public health systems, such that responses to Ebola are likely to be fairly integrated. Effectively, the public health system would be responsible for overall disease control policies and interventions, surveillance and situational awareness, and providing guidance to decision-makers and the public. The focus in the health-care system will be on patient care, protection of workers and patients, and excellent infection control.

IamGimli (banned)
join:2004-02-28
Canada

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said by PlusOne :

said by Gone:

Meh. Even if it is Ebola, there is little reason for us to be concerned.

That is the way - stick your head in the sand.

Yep. Unless the sand has been contaminated with bodily fluids from an infected (and contagious) person the sand is a very safe defence mechanism.

EUS
Kill cancer
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canada

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EUS to ZZZZZZZ

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I see that the story is still that this outbreak is non-airborne transmitted.
I'm getting more skeptical.

Points taken from the media.
The TX guy apparently got infected on the airplane.Contracted in Liberia.
One is not contagious until symptoms show.
Transmittable only by body fluids, not airborne.

Either at least one of the media points is wrong *airplane infection was incorrect*, the tx guy shared body fluids with someone showing symptoms on the flight, or ebola is airborne.
Expand your moderator at work
PX Eliezer1
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Zubrowka USA

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Re: [Rant] Ebola quarantine

Dr. Gary Kobinger:
Chief Special Pathogens
Head, Vector Design and Immunotherapy Special Pathogens.
Associate Professor, Medical Microbiology, University of Manitoba.

He was concerned a couple years ago about airborne transmission, but he was part of a recent study that suggested that the virus is [not] transmitted airborne:

Evaluation of transmission risks associated with in vivo replication of several high containment pathogens in a biosafety level 4 laboratory
[Nature] [July 2014]

»www.nature.com/srep/2014 ··· 824.html

Gone
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Fort Erie, ON

Gone

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The suggestion that Ebola would somehow mutate into an airborne pathogen is just as foolish as suggesting that HIV would do the same thing. HIV has mutated far more over the course of its known existence and has been exposed to vastly more drugs in an effort to contain and eradicate it, and despite all this HIV is still only transmitted by certain bodily fluids.

EUS
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EUS

Premium Member

If that's directed at me, I don't mind looking foolish, as I'm not a microbiologist.

Quote from »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eb ··· _disease

Airborne transmission has not been documented during EVD outbreaks.[2] They are, however, infectious as breathable 0.8– to 1.2-m laboratory-generated droplets.[27] The virus has been shown to travel, without contact, from pigs to primates, although the same study failed to demonstrate similar transmission between non-human primates.[28]
PX Eliezer1
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PX Eliezer1 to Gone

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Excellent point.

-----

Well, speaking of HIV here's a great SF story, "The Last Flight of Doctor Ain" written by James Tiptree Jr.

It was written long before HIV, yet it was eerily predictive of a virus which took over the immune system.
»davidlavery.net/Courses/ ··· ain.html

James Tiptree was really Alice Sheldon, a psychologist who also had worked for US army intelligence in WW2 and later the CIA.

Gone
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Fort Erie, ON

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Not directed at you at all. Your post merely reminded me of the parallel I posted.

Procedure
@95.154.230.x

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Hospital procedures are only as good as those implementing them. The Dallas Hospital was sadly deficient.
»www.usatoday.com/story/n ··· 6527143/
PX Eliezer1
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Zubrowka USA

PX Eliezer1

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said by Procedure :

Hospital procedures are only as good as those implementing them.

True with anything in life, whether treating a patient or guarding the White House. Our Secret Service chief just resigned btw.

Mark Lester, executive vice president at Texas Health Resources, said the patient "volunteered that he had been to Africa in response to the nurse operating the checklist and asking that question."

That information "wasn't present" as the man's health care team made its decision about whether to admit or release him, Lester said.

I'm sympathetic to hospitals having served for many years on a hospital QA (quality assurance) committee, but that WAS a major foulup.

As well, the treating physicians have an independent responsibility to ask that travel question too.

-----

Hospital records whether print or electronic have SO much data these days. The triage nurse should have made a point of hitting the intercom and contacting the doctor directly, not just writing it on the chart.

Dallas does have a large immigrant community from West Africa but if someone says "I have a fever and I just returned from xxx" that sure gets MY attention.

Anav
Sarcastic Llama? Naw, Just Acerbic
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Dartmouth, NS

Anav

Premium Member

I hope PX you are starting to understand that there are layers to risk. Your posts reflected a very shallow respect for the dangers of Ebola. Hopefully it remains a tally of only one.......... I also hope that he comes out of this okay............

We should send down the Toronto Maple Leafs to cheer the fellow up!!!
PX Eliezer1
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PX Eliezer1

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said by Anav:

Your posts reflected a very shallow respect for the dangers of Ebola.

FWIW and FBOFW, I follow what the CDC and the New Jersey Department of Health tell me.....Which does not include FUD.

Most folks would maintain that the upcoming flu season and the current problems of Enterovirus D68 (EV-D68) are BOTH more pressing issues for Canada and the US. Flu DOES kill thousands in NorthAm every year and is largely preventable.

I [would] agree that it would be nice to have a travel moratorium for a while regarding the Ebola-affected countries.

Any fellow such as this Dallas person who thought it would be a fine idea to travel to Liberia---I would like to shake him and ask him the question from WW2: "Was this trip REALLY necessary right now?"

He may have passed through Heathrow too.

Anav
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Dartmouth, NS

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Anav

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CDC okay but I choked at New Jersey Dept of Health. Gotta be one of the most unhealthiest populations in the US. Ive been told that in some parts of NJ one cant find a grocery store but there are lots of fast food places around instead...... to find nourishment?

Remember its the authorities who initially stated there was no issue in Dallas, same as no issues with trespassers in the White House. The authorities are really bad at telling the truth and being accountable - wmd. A dose of skepticism for any federal agency is not a bad thing. On the whole though concur, on flu threats etc and is why taking flu shots is a community responsibility not just a personal one.
PX Eliezer1
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Zubrowka USA

PX Eliezer1

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said by Anav:

CDC okay but I choked at New Jersey Dept of Health. Gotta be one of the most unhealthiest populations in the US.

Of the 50 states, NJ ranks 8th highest in life expectancy.
»kff.org/other/state-indi ··· ectancy/
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
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MaynardKrebs

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But the #1 cause of death in Jersey is mob hits. /rimshot

Kitlope
join:2004-07-29
Edmonton, Ab

Kitlope

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And Camden. Don't forget Camden.
PX Eliezer1
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said by MaynardKrebs:

But the #1 cause of death in Jersey is mob hits. /rimshot

We are a family friendly state.
PX Eliezer1

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said by Kitlope:

And Camden. Don't forget Camden.

Camden was the Silicon Valley of its day, thanks to RCA Victor.
»www.theatlantic.com/tech ··· /375248/

An instructive lesson, and as manufacturing declines in Ontario and elsewhere, no one should ever feel that the future is guaranteed.

Kitlope
join:2004-07-29
Edmonton, Ab

Kitlope

Member

It was just a cheap, yuk yuk potshot from the "almighty" west. And I agree. It's sad what's going on

Anav
Sarcastic Llama? Naw, Just Acerbic
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Dartmouth, NS

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said by PX Eliezer1:

said by Kitlope:

And Camden. Don't forget Camden.

Camden was the Silicon Valley of its day, thanks to RCA Victor.
»www.theatlantic.com/tech ··· /375248/

An instructive lesson, and as manufacturing declines in Ontario and elsewhere, no one should ever feel that the future is guaranteed.

Yes concur!, in our almighty quest to pay less, we boosted the chinese economy and killed our own. If only corporate fat cats appreciated the north american worker instead of being fixed on their greed, the north american worker could afford to buy north american.

ChickenOrEgg
@73.160.110.x

ChickenOrEgg

Anon

said by Anav:

Yes concur!, in our almighty quest to pay less, we boosted the chinese economy and killed our own. If only corporate fat cats appreciated the north american worker instead of being fixed on their greed, the north american worker could afford to buy north american.

This is a chicken or egg argument, which came 1st?
Did people pursuing the cheapest product, no matter how poor the quality, drive manufacturing to China?
Or did manufacturing moving to China destroy the middle class in North America, thereby creating people who could only afford the cheapest products?
Or was it a combination of the two?