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morbo
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morbo

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Ubiquiti VoIP phones?

I just received an email about Ubiquiti Unifi VoIP: »www.ubnt.com/unifi-voip/ ··· verview/ Interesting concept.

The website is a bit light on details. Anyone have experience testing these?
voxframe
join:2010-08-02

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voxframe

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These units are FRESH. Nobody will have these in stock yet, let alone deployed.

I've worked with Ubnt products since day 1... My only comments... "Let the pawns go first"

They have some insane, bleeding edge, record breaking gear... But at the cost of serious bugs, supplier problems, and a corporate entity that seems to be in a constant identity crisis. To top it all off, none of their product lines make it to full completion before being replaced with a new series.

Their prime product is their wireless WISP gear... The rest is mediocre or flawed in some way, or flat out missing in action.

They look sexy, but Ubnt has always been about eye candy before functionality.

Be weary.
PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

PX Eliezer1

Premium Member

said by voxframe:

They look sexy, but Ubnt has always been about eye candy before functionality.

Sounds like a trophy phone, akin to trophy wife.
said by voxframe:

Be weary.

And wary.

mgraves1
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I just saw these this morning as well. Info is pretty light as yet. From their user forums it appears that they are not yet shipping.

Where I've had the chance to use Ubiquiti stuff I've had good results. I look forward to giving them a try.

morbo
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morbo

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The text of the email makes it seem like the units are being tested now with availability later this year. I'm most curious about Android being the OS.
OzarkEdge
join:2014-02-23
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Hmmm... so now your smart phone, no scratch that... your tablet, no scratch that... your phablet, yeah, that's it... so now your phablet is an immobile desk phone that you log in and out of, update often, reboot when it locks up, and somehow must place just so for your aging executive eyes and at touch distance. They should sell well at Brookstone next to the Bucky Balls at Christmas.

OE
Stewart
join:2005-07-13

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said by voxframe:

They look sexy, but Ubnt has always been about eye candy before functionality.

said by OzarkEdge:

so now your smart phone, no scratch that... your tablet, no scratch that... your phablet, yeah, that's it... so now your phablet is an immobile desk phone that you log in and out of, update often, reboot when it locks up, and somehow must place just so for your aging executive eyes and at touch distance.

I can't believe the negativity here.

Eye candy is often important. I helped a friend install Wi-Fi at his assisted living facility, using more than 50 Ubiquiti UAP-LR APs, 40 of them in resident apartments. They were simply mounted to the wall above existing phone jacks; the cable was dropped through the wall and connected to existing wiring. The device is less obtrusive than a smoke detector. See »www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti- ··· 5H4CDF4/ . Competing APs were ugly brown or black boxes with antennas sticking out. Had that been our only option, the project would have never happened. There were only two complaints from residents: they found the green status light disturbing. With Ubiquiti's unified controller, a few mouse clicks and the 40 lights went out.

Not a single AP needed an RMA. Though less than perfect, firmware is better than I had expected. In about eight months, two APs got into a state where they accepted client associations but did not pass traffic. A few other malfunctions were self-detected by the system and recovered by automatic reboots.

Sometimes, eye candy is really important. The cockpit display of a modern airliner uses graphics that emulate the appearance of traditional analog instruments, so experienced pilots can more rapidly assess the situation. It's a good bet that this candy has saved lives.

For some people, an Android desk phone makes good sense. Having the same interface as your mobile makes it easy to master operation and results in fewer mishandled calls. More importantly, you get automatic contacts synchronization. Add or edit a contact on your mobile and the change appears on the desk phone, and vice versa.

An immobile phone has its advantages, including superior voice quality, no battery life issues, and negligible radiation exposure.

Android phones have been around awhile, e.g. »www.amazon.com/Grandstre ··· A79G6CA/ .

A VoIP provider is developing one that integrates well with their services, featuring a cordless handset. See »thevtalkphone.com/ .
Pufferty
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join:2014-07-07
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That looks sick. Are those docked smartphones?
voxframe
join:2010-08-02

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said by Stewart:

I can't believe the negativity here.

I have over a thousand of their various products deployed... And been doing it since the day they opened their doors.

The negativity is well based.

Their products are sleek, sexy, and for the most part work well. But keep in mind, ZERO of their product lines have ever reached completion before they were dumped or "Legacy-ed" (Since the truthful term of EOL seems to be shunned by them). Their M series radios almost made it to full completion if it wasn't for the massive clusterfuck near the end with certifications and last minute kludge fixes for it.

I simply ask that people look at any of their "Non WISP" offerings and right away you'll see an angry mob asking "Where are the rest of the products you promised!?" Their camera lineup being prime example as well as their "mFi" industrial control and telemetry line. Serious hardware is missing and despite many broken promises, has never shown up.

VOIP is a serious enterprise/undertaking of its own, that can/could/does rival the entire WISP market in size... They just bit off a bite that is double the size of what they are already badly chewing.

If I was selling serious VOIP systems, the last thing I'd want is for my hardware to be locked into a single vendor (Watch out, Ubnt has been doing this with their entire product line... Their cameras used to speak standard protocols, now you're fucked and need to use their DVR... Nice surprise to those deployed with hundreds of these) then suddenly that vendor back-burners the product line.

My phone system is now half baked, doesn't work with anything, and has been EOLed. Oh shit, and it's only been deployed for a year and a half.

Sorry I have more faith in a SPA-122 hooked to a 10$ phone. At least I know it will still speak SIP in 3 years and will still work.
voxframe

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Something also to keep in mind... These phones are now playing with Android. This is the first time Ubnt has EVER collaborated with Android, or integrated any serious OS into their devices (Asides from an embedded Linux on their radios that users don't usually touch). So now you have this relationship added into the mix that never existed before, and it's a first for Ubnt.

All of this nastyness aside, I really wish them the best for this. I honestly hope they blow the VOIP market to hell with these phones. But if it follows their track record, you better be ready for a rough ride.
voxframe

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I'll probably pick up a couple to play with on my desk, but I won't be selling anything to my customers except Polycom and/or Cisco. At least I know I won't be getting calls from angry customers out of the blue, or worse find nasty surprises waiting for me in my inbox "We've made it even cooler, it only speaks Ubnt now!"
OzarkEdge
join:2014-02-23
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said by Stewart:

I can't believe the negativity here.

Ubiquiti has an eclectic product line. Their past focus appears to be wireless network access and surveillance. They do not have much in the way of telephony or integrating same with collaborative groupware. Yet they are (weakly) positioning their new Android tablet phones for the corporate enterprise market.

A few concerns I would have:

o They have no depth to become my enterprise telephony vendor. Their website is fluff with little or no solution detail. If they sneeze, I've lost my only support for this critical business 'system' they sold me.

o Their cheapest phone is $150. If it gets knocked to the floor, it may very well break. I want an inexpensive, solid, bulletproof phone with STANDARD controls that can execute the common functions quickly, mindlessly, and flawlessly. If I have to touch it more than once to pickup a call or to put a call on hold, it's a fail. Android touch screens are a fail in this regard.

o I don't want a phone stuck on its initial OEM Android version, slowly expiring in front of my eyes, hoping the OEM will update it to keep it current or to fix an app bug; and the OEM hoping the same of Google.

o I don't want my users loading insecure Android apps on the corporate LAN, putting mics and cameras in every office, bought from a wireless surveillance vendor.

o I don't want my users playing or pranking with the company phones.

o I don't want my users decentralizing and disseminating corporate data into insecure Google account stovepipes.

o I don't want the company phone to become another IT security and personal privacy liability.

I could go on and on. I really like my Nexus 7 tablet but I would not slap a handset on it, stick it to my desk, and call it a corporate enterprise telephone system.

OE

mgraves1
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said by Stewart:

Android phones have been around awhile, e.g. »www.amazon.com/Grandstre ··· A79G6CA/ .

A VoIP provider is developing one that integrates well with their services, featuring a cordless handset. See »thevtalkphone.com/ .

Yes, indeed. Android desk phones have bee around for some time. I tried the Cloud Telecomputers Glass 1000 for a few days. It was dismal. Ran and ancient version of Android and was basically unusable. It was replaced by a new model 1100 that may have fared better, at least running something more current and with more resource for development. However, I see that the companies web site (»www.cloudtc.com/) is N/A today.

I tried Grandstream's GXV-3175, but it was also hobbled by an old version of the OS. It's hardware was far too slow. The GXV-3275 seems to go a good distance to remedying these faults.

The promise of Android is integration with other services, like SalesForce.com, etc. The problem with Android is that it's a treadmill that the maker likely won't be able to keep up with. Dev is moving too fast for a device that is expected to have a lifespan of more than 24 months.

As to the Aussie phone, it reminds me a lot of OpenPeak. (»www.openpeak.com/) They had a line of phones that were (I think) WinCE powered at first. They were tablet-like with wired handsets and DECT cordless handsets. The DECT stuff was OEM'd from Gigaset.

»www.mgraves.org/2009/01/ ··· ckstory/

They were the team behind the Verizon Wireless HUB, which was a flop, largely due to VZW mismanagement. I had a friend in the Baltimore area who had one.

OpenPeak migrated to Android. Then build their own app store, provisioning and dev support platform. Now they seem to be in the Corp BYOD security/management space.

The real question about the UBNT phones & PBX is who is making them and writing the software. How much skin does UBNT have in the game? If they are sourced elsewhere then it could just be trial balloon in a new market segment.

Still, they look nice and UBNT may have the staying power to get the job done where others has expired along the way.
voxframe
join:2010-08-02

voxframe

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said by mgraves1:

How much skin does UBNT have in the game? If they are sourced elsewhere then it could just be trial balloon in a new market segment.

That's an easy answer. They have ZERO skin in the voip market. Nada.

The points brought up about the OS being ancient and upgrade paths are points that I never even considered.

My polycom will not be outdated in 5 years. It will still work and probably still be supported in some way. Whereas these units will lose their functionality over time as development surpasses the hardware and core OS. (If it's not upgradable).
voxframe

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Something else to consider with these units... They do NOT talk SIP. They require a Ubnt-only gateway unit. (Which doesn't have any analog line support at the moment, nor are there talks of any further devices like gateways).

This is usually as far as their new product lines go. They send out some sexy new product, half baked, and don't finish producing the extra products needed to support it properly.

They have confirmed that IF you want it to talk SIP, you are free to load up some 3rd party SIP client... Yeah that will really work in an enterprise grade environment.

Gentlemen... Here is a prime example of shooting yourself in the foot with a shotgun. Watch closely and never repeat.

morbo
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said by voxframe:

They do NOT talk SIP. They require a Ubnt-only gateway unit.

That's the dealbreaker for me even testing.
voxframe
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Ditto. I was going to order a few JUST for the sake of shits and giggles, but that's a dead no-go deal breaker.
kaila
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said by voxframe:

They have confirmed that IF you want it to talk SIP, you are free to load up some 3rd party SIP client... Yeah that will really work in an enterprise grade environment.

I like using CSipSimple & Zoiper on my HTC One, but I'm not going to buy an IP-Phone that I have to download those apps to be able to receive calls.....

mgraves1
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said by voxframe:

My polycom will not be outdated in 5 years. It will still work and probably still be supported in some way. Whereas these units will lose their functionality over time as development surpasses the hardware and core OS. (If it's not upgradable).

I have a long history of using Polycom phones. I like their hardware a lot.

Android phones are different beasts. They aim to allow integration with third party services, for example CRM systems. The fact that a desk phone runs Android, and delivers some added value through such integration, may be useful to some people.

The functionality of the UBNT phones will not degrade over time. Whatever it does on day 1 it will still do 5 years later. That's the case regardless of how far the OS has moved on with respect to mobile phones & tablets.

The UBNT phones won't be any more outdated than your Polycom phones. The difference is expectation. You likely don't expect the functionality of your Polycom phones to be meaningfully extended.

Leveraging Android as the OS brings both advantages & disadvantages. It can be easier to develop custom functions and support third party integration. However, it's got all the issues of security that relate to an increasingly complex OS.

Michael
OzarkEdge
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OzarkEdge

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said by mgraves1:

Android phones are different beasts. They aim to allow integration with third party services, for example CRM systems. The fact that a desk phone runs Android, and delivers some added value through such integration, may be useful to some people.

The functionality of the UBNT phones will not degrade over time. Whatever it does on day 1 it will still do 5 years later. That's the case regardless of how far the OS has moved on with respect to mobile phones & tablets.

The UBNT phones won't be any more outdated than your Polycom phones. The difference is expectation. You likely don't expect the functionality of your Polycom phones to be meaningfully extended.

Leveraging Android as the OS brings both advantages & disadvantages. It can be easier to develop custom functions and support third party integration. However, it's got all the issues of security that relate to an increasingly complex OS.

That they allow third party integration but may not evolve past day 1 dysfunction because of the OEM, is precisely the support problem that they pose. Security issues only compound the matter. More likely than not, they will remind your boss or client daily what a lame IT decision they made.

[devil's advocate mode off]

OE
voxframe
join:2010-08-02

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Seems I'm possibly wrong on the non-SIP operation. Spec sheet shows SIP, but Ubnt isn't giving clear answers about it.

Still waiting to see some more clear info besides marketing fud.

mgraves1
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Houston, TX

mgraves1

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The tear sheet is very clear that they support SIP. However, elsewhere there is info that stipulates that the USG is initially required to use the phones. That suggests that the phones are dependent upon something in the USG for provisioning.

As you note, all of this will become more clear when the devices start to ship. Many people, including some UBNT fans, have noted that they will likely have firmware issues for a long while. The company has a history of over-promising and delayed delivery.

battleop
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Ubnt is that super smart kid that's got a severe case of ADD. They have some cool ideas but they seem to never quite follow something through to the end.
voxframe
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Bingo on both counts.

The USG dependency is what scares me. They did this with their cameras where they promised open formats, only to cripple the units VIA firmware further down the road so that they only work with Ubnt DVR units. LOT of really pissed off customers who used these cameras with their existing systems.

No clear answers yet from Ubnt on what the dependencies are on the USG. So I'm not assuming anything is compatible until I know they can operate without them.
gldfld
join:2014-08-06
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If this were just a single telephone, you might have a point, but in fact, it's a PBX system designed for an office of perhaps 15 phones or more. It's all about central control and the features thereof.
gldfld

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I guess you don't understand the concept of a PBX (Private Branch Exchange), it's not meant to be a single telephone but part of a system of probably 15 phones or more. It's about centralized control and the features thereof.
said by OzarkEdge:

Hmmm... so now your smart phone, no scratch that... your tablet, no scratch that... your phablet, yeah, that's it... so now your phablet is an immobile desk phone that you log in and out of, update often, reboot when it locks up, and somehow must place just so for your aging executive eyes and at touch distance. They should sell well at Brookstone next to the Bucky Balls at Christmas.

OE

PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

PX Eliezer1

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said by gldfld:

I guess you don't understand the concept of a PBX (Private Branch Exchange)....

He understands the concept of a PBX very well.

The issue is dependence on closed systems and proprietary technology.
said by gldfld:

....it's not meant to be a single telephone but part of a system of probably 15 phones or more. It's about centralized control and the features thereof.

Yes, so when support ceases or firmware updates become unavailable, you lose 15 phones at once.
OzarkEdge
join:2014-02-23
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OzarkEdge

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said by PX Eliezer1:

He understands the concept of a PBX very well.

Thank you, Sir! Perhaps a bit generous, but who's counting.

OE
OzarkEdge

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said by gldfld:

If this were just a single telephone, you might have a point, but in fact, it's a PBX system designed for an office of perhaps 15 phones or more. It's all about central control and the features thereof.

My comments were confined to the topic, 'Ubiquiti VoIP phones?'. Whether or not they have a backend system that ties these phones together will not help them much. I feel the phone is best suited for a one-off SOHO user who wants to twiddle with his phone... try to integrate something/anything to make himself seem more productive... with a phone.

OE