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EGeezer
zichrona livracha
Premium
join:2002-08-04
Midwest
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1 recommendation

Google spots child porn, reports to NCMEC

More Google email incidents

A Houston man has been arrested after Google sent a tip to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children saying the man had explicit images of a child in his email, according to Houston police.

»www.businessinsider.com/police-s···t-2014-8
--
»www.flickr.com/photos/egeezer/


NetFixer
Bah Humbug
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join:2004-06-24
The Boro
Reviews:
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1 edit

2 recommendations

Not surprising, since Google does scan all user emails, and federal law requires anyone seeing child porn (or evidence of any child abuse) to report it.

Since both Google and Yahoo! do officially scan user emails (and certainly most corporations and organizations do), I am surprised that this does not happen more often -- or perhaps it does, and it just does not always get publicly announced because the companies/organizations do not want the publicity, and law enforcement and/or prosecutors use the email evidence to get a plea bargain deal, and they do not want to see a good information source dry up because offenders stop using that distribution channel.
--
We can never have enough of nature.
We need to witness our own limits transgressed, and some life pasturing freely where we never wander.


kvn864

join:2001-12-18
Sun City, AZ
kudos:1

1 recommendation

reply to EGeezer
child porn is such a nasty thing, I support all means to fight it


NetFixer
Bah Humbug
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1 edit

4 recommendations

said by kvn864:

child porn is such a nasty thing, I support all means to fight it

OTOH, one man's child porn is another man's cute picture. Who gets to define child porn? Someone with common sense, a computer AI algorithm, a prosecutor with a private agenda? And it makes no difference whether a judge and jury agree with the prosecutor's claims; once child porn charges have been publicly made, the damage is done.




I have 35mm slides of my kids (that I am not going to post here) when they were very young, skinny dipping in an isolated mountain stream. Is that child porn? I don't think so, but I would not email digital images of those slides to a family member with a Google or Yahoo! email account, because I have no idea what they use as a criteria for defining child porn. And I would not be surprised if the management of this site deleted the above image of an old Coppertone ad in order to protect themselves from child porn vigilantes.
--
We can never have enough of nature.
We need to witness our own limits transgressed, and some life pasturing freely where we never wander.


PlusOne

@66.249.83.x
reply to NetFixer
said by NetFixer:

Not surprising, since Google does scan all user emails, and federal law requires anyone seeing child porn (or evidence of any child abuse) to report it.

Since both Google and Yahoo! do officially scan user emails (and certainly most corporations and organizations do), I am surprised that this does not happen more often -- or perhaps it does, and it just does not always get publicly announced because law enforcement and/or prosecutors use the email evidence to get a plea bargain deal, and they do not want to see a good information source dry up because offenders stop using that distribution channel.

But should Google or Yahoo be Internet cops? Are they merely reporting something they came across to the police as required by law? Or are they an active agent of the police investigating and collecting evidence without warrants?


NetFixer
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said by PlusOne :

But should Google or Yahoo be Internet cops? Are they merely reporting something they came across to the police as required by law? Or are they an active agent of the police investigating and collecting evidence without warrants?

I will not speculate on something that I have no way of knowing (or finding out). I will leave it to those with deeper pockets than mine to do the proper investigation of that question. However, I think it is safe to say that both of those companies are motivated by profit for their policies of officially scanning user emails, more than they are by some political or social motivation.
--
We can never have enough of nature.
We need to witness our own limits transgressed, and some life pasturing freely where we never wander.


novaflare
The Dragon Was Here
Premium
join:2002-01-24
Barberton, OH

1 recommendation

reply to NetFixer
I think the bigger issue here is this. Was the owner of the email account a active participant in receiving the images or was it a case of some one or some machine sent them to his account?

I did not read the article link btw. So this is a more general question. As in lets say for arguments sake i have a email account and some one or some site spams me with images such as child porn or any other illegal porn. My account sometimes goes days and even a couple weeks with out me checking it. A few times i went for 2 months strait + with out checking my gmail email. Unless im expecting something i may not bother with that account for a long time. Just because email x from email y is there does not mean that i wanted it sent or even went to a site and put my email in. Spam bots etc generate email addresses like a cold call telemarketing bot generates phone numbers.

Added after reading the article.

From looking at some of the article in this case it seems there was more than just the images in his emails.

How horrible would it be to get spammed and go to jail for getting spammed. We could and probably will see a case where that happens. If spammers and scammers think the pay off could be worth the risk they may just start extorting people by spamming them and or infecting them with viruses trojans etc. Pay up or go to jail.

nonymous
Premium
join:2003-09-08
Glendale, AZ
reply to NetFixer
We have some photos nearly the same of our son. But we dont share them. Maybe show them to family sometimes but just dont share.


novaflare
The Dragon Was Here
Premium
join:2002-01-24
Barberton, OH
Yeh never put those any place online period. Never put any photo online you do not want public or any thing else. If it is online it is at least potentially public.


NetFixer
Bah Humbug
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2 recommendations

reply to novaflare
said by novaflare:

I think the bigger issue here is this. Was the owner of the email account a active participant in receiving the images or was it a case of some one or some machine sent them to his account?

I did not read the article link btw...

---

Added after reading the article.

From looking at some of the article in this case it seems there was more than just the images in his emails.

How horrible would it be to get spammed and go to jail for getting spammed...

How horrible indeed to be accused by someone who has not even tried to find out the facts. I think you have just illustrated that there is more than one kind of vigilante.
--
We can never have enough of nature.
We need to witness our own limits transgressed, and some life pasturing freely where we never wander.

nonymous
Premium
join:2003-09-08
Glendale, AZ
I would presume Google and also Yahoo MSN are just too big and busy to go after most email crime even with computerized email scanning. So until they start reporting without any human help just computerized scan straight to police there probably is some threshold.
Not going to test it but probably more than spam. Especially if all bad mail sent to spam folder and any getting threw reported as spam.


Sr Tech
Premium
join:2003-01-19
New Britain, CT
kudos:1

1 recommendation

reply to EGeezer
Even though I condone child porn, the issue I see is are they scanning for other key words that people search or email about. For example, weapons, not liking a politician, and so forth. Will they report that as well?


Postal
First pull up, then pull down.
Premium
join:2000-08-30
Simi Valley, CA

3 recommendations

said by Sr Tech:

Even though I condone child porn...

I assume you're missing a 'don't' in there?

nonymous
Premium
join:2003-09-08
Glendale, AZ

1 recommendation

said by Postal:

said by Sr Tech:

Even though I condone child porn...

I assume you're missing a 'don't' in there?

The poster is testing any reporting dslreports does and if they take into account mistyping.


Yikes

@24.46.142.x

1 recommendation

reply to Sr Tech
said by Sr Tech:

Even though I condemn child porn...

FIFY!


sivran
Seamonkey's back
Premium
join:2003-09-15
Irving, TX
kudos:1

2 recommendations

reply to nonymous
Damn you, autocorrect!

Anyway, the way I see it, Google may have set up a script for it. I wouldn't want to be the one to test it though.

Google scans email. We know this.
It's possible for a computer to recognize fleshtones and even distinguish nudity.
It's plausible a computer could make a reasonable guess as to the age of the subject in an image, especially if there are context clues in the text around the image.
A computer could thus identify a naked kid.
If a naked kid were identified, the computer could then check who the image came from -- does the user communicate with them regularly? Did the user send it to himself?
If yes, fire off alert. Possible human review before final submission to authorities.
If no, hopefully discard the result. After all, wouldn't want novaflare See Profile's hypothetical spam-leads-to-prison situation to come true.
Solution: Child Pornography traders become spammers.
Oh crap.
--
Oh, Opera, what have you done?

nonymous
Premium
join:2003-09-08
Glendale, AZ

1 edit
Plus any text in the emails and the origin or destinations thereof.
Most people including pervs are not overly safe in what they say in an email. Like say gun bomb Obame then name a terrorist group and then other fun stuff. Sure some or most pervs would use whatever is similiar for young children photos.


Link Logger
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
Calgary, AB
kudos:3
reply to EGeezer
There are pictures of junior's first bath and then there is crap so perverse that you couldn't possibly question that its explicit and exploitative kiddie porn, which was this? I'm betting it was definitely on the perverse side given he is being held with a $200,000 bond.

Blake
--
Vendor: Author of Link Logger which is a traffic analysis and firewall logging tool

BlitzenZeus
Burnt Out Cynic
Premium
join:2000-01-13
kudos:3
The article said they were already a registered sex offender, and it wasn't the only place they found similar things. Provided what they said was true, and it was the actual exploitation of minors this is when rage and disgust meet. I don't believe these people can be cured, or properly deterred unless locked away. The issue of how the e-mail was flagged to be reviewed by human eyes I would like an explanation on, maybe a service similar to tineye was used.

Even a Nirvana album had a picture of a baby swimming, and even to this day you'll see the album art on amazon and popular streaming music sites in full form, nothing dirty about it except in the eye of the beholder.
--
I distrust those people who know so well what god wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires- Susan B. Anthony
Yesterday we obeyed kings, and bent our necks before emperors. But today we kneel only to the truth- Kahlil G.


EGeezer
zichrona livracha
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reply to novaflare
said by novaflare:

I think the bigger issue here is this. Was the owner of the email account a active participant in receiving the images or was it a case of some one or some machine sent them to his account?

... lets say for arguments sake i have a email account and some one or some site spams me with images such as child porn or any other illegal porn. ...

A qualified Forensic investigator can determine whether this is the case or not using a forensic toolkit with tools like EnCase.

However, stupid 'experts' can ruin lives, as in the case of Julie Amero.
See »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_C···ie_Amero

and »reason.com/archives/2008/12/12/t···ie-amero
--
»www.flickr.com/photos/egeezer/

nonymous
Premium
join:2003-09-08
Glendale, AZ
reply to Link Logger
Some child porn carries large sentences per picture etc. Enough pictures easily looking at mandatory life plus in some jurisdictions.
said by Link Logger:

There are pictures of junior's first bath and then there is crap so perverse that you couldn't possibly question that its explicit and exploitative kiddie porn, which was this? I'm betting it was definitely on the perverse side given he is being held with a $200,000 bond.

Blake



therube

join:2004-11-11
Randallstown, MD
Reviews:
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reply to nonymous
quote:
I would presume Google and also Yahoo MSN are just too big and busy to go after most email crime even with computerized email scanning.

Microsoft Finds Child Abuse Photos in OneDrive Account, Calls the Cops

PhotoDNA


novaflare
The Dragon Was Here
Premium
join:2002-01-24
Barberton, OH
Huh i always wondered how google could do a find "other images like this" On image search guessing they use this photo dna deal. I get allot of base textures for 3d models and some times find good ones that are just way to small so i use the find other image deal allot. Cool to know a little on how it works.


NotGreen

@69.22.184.x
reply to EGeezer
Let's go back to basics: is it ok that Google & Co. scans our emails? What about privacy? Today everyone is yelling about e.g. tracking cookies and other relative innocent stuff, and email scans of customers are just fine?


Chubbzie

join:2014-02-11
Greenville, NC
Its in Google's Terms of Service:

"Our automated systems analyze your content (including emails) to provide you personally relevant product features, such as customized search results, tailored advertising, and spam and malware detection. This analysis occurs as the content is sent, received, and when it is stored."

More: Google's Terms of Service


NotGreen

@69.22.184.x
So you are saying, when something is covered by a TOS or similar, it's ok and no room for considerations?


NetFixer
Bah Humbug
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reply to NotGreen
said by NotGreen :

Let's go back to basics: is it ok that Google & Co. scans our emails? What about privacy? Today everyone is yelling about e.g. tracking cookies and other relative innocent stuff, and email scans of customers are just fine?

The "back to basics" of it is that you are using their network and their servers, and they can do whatever they want as long as they inform the users of their policy. The users are informed that the email is being scanned, so you either accept that, or you don't use their email service (and you don't reply or send email to anyone with a Google/MS/Yahoo! email account with anything that you would not want to be public knowledge).

The difference between the email policies and the general Internet tracking by the companies who do that, is that the general Internet tracking is not done on users who have accepted a TOS regarding that tracking. The tracking is an agreement between web site operators and the companies doing the tracking -- the web site visitors have no voice in that (except for those who have the technical knowledge to block the tracking on their end of the connection).
--
We can never have enough of nature.
We need to witness our own limits transgressed, and some life pasturing freely where we never wander.


novaflare
The Dragon Was Here
Premium
join:2002-01-24
Barberton, OH

1 recommendation

reply to NotGreen
Truth is we have never had true privacy on the net. It started out as a gov/military network. That we later got access to. It was never made to be private out side of the military. Any privacy we have we gained over time. Truthfully we have more privacy online now then we did when we first got access. We do now have less and less than we did say 10 12 15 20 years ago. We being most. Me i likely have as little oyt there about me as i did 20 years ago. Simply put i never send a email pm or post any thing on a forum that i would not say in a crowd of strangers. Granted i have posted on forums where the admins do not want the rest on the forums or out side their circles knowing what is said. But again i personally could not care less about it getting out if they want it done that way it is in the end on them if and when it leaks out. I do my job as instructed though i may protest the way i have to do it letting them know it can possibly at some point be seen by the public or what have you.

As for googles actions etc. When you make a account as chubbize said it is in their ToS.

BTW i see your partial ip do to your anon posting this can be used to find out a general location of where you live (prob just the city) the isp your using etc. You may be using anon posting do to work etc. But assuming privacy concerns that partial ip leaks loads of info about you. Scary sort of (mostly useless).

All we have is a semblance of privacy and have never had more than that.


NotGreen

@64.40.147.x
Don't worry about the partial IP, nobody will be able to find anything about my location aso (-;

Back to topic: let's take a look at privacy in common. Facebook e.g., I'll bet with you that at least 90% of the users of this site is using Facebook, many of them are constantly yelling about the fact that Facebook is violating all thinkable privacy rights. No one of the Facebook users will say that by opening a Facebook account they fully accept Facebook's TOS, privacy violations included, the opposite is reality: they are complaining and complaining about Bad Bad Facebook.

This is just an example, there are many other ones.


novaflare
The Dragon Was Here
Premium
join:2002-01-24
Barberton, OH

1 recommendation

Again facebook etc all are all the same imo. Never post any thing you would not tell a stranger ever. Our privacy online just has never existed. Im a big privacy proponent. Ill tell any one exactly how to maintain the highest amount of privacy online that is obtainable with out just not going online. But i also understand that anonymity does not exist online no matter how much we would like it to.

Privacy like security is again i can not say this enough a trade off between useability and security and or privacy. The more secure or private you want to keep your computer the less usable it becomes.

Just look at macs the pinicle of unuseable and secure and private ......
/me ducks the mac users through their old computers at me

Obviously i am joking about macs not being useable and being more secure. Recent malware has shown that they are not secure .... heheh

Ok enough of me bashing macs ill leave that up to the will it blend guys on youtube. But in all seriousness privacy and security for usability. or vise versa

I have reasons for not liking macs and they are honestly not usable for what i do which is 3d art creation for games and just for fun. I use 3ds max and there is no mac equivalent nor will there be in the foreseeable future. Autodesk has already made that clear.

Now i do like picking on macs and the mac guys as they like picking on pcs and pc users. Allot of it is plane old sport.

So what we really need to ask our selves is how much of the usability of our pcs and the net are we willing to give up for security and privacy? It is different for every one. Maybe some of this will chance with full implementation of ipv6 maybe not.